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Old 02-25-2013, 12:17   #26
Bren
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Originally Posted by Bluebearbevis View Post
After Columbine and Aurora, what would be a solid one to purchase capable of stopping a bear or moose?
Does this not make sense, or were there bears and mooses involved at Columbine and Aurora that I don't know about?
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Old 02-25-2013, 14:38   #27
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Thanks Mountain10mm,

And thanks for your patience everyone. If I seem undecided about this, it's because I am. Upon reflection, I would like to apologize to you also CowboyMan, don't attack your allies. There's the kicker, the 10 mm appears good enough for Michigan and Colorado, but not for Montana or Alaska. My experience with Black bears is don't get between a cub and its mother, don't keep food in your tent and the proverbial "play possum." I'm headed into back-country Glacier National Park this Summer by myself for a week and I can only afford 1 $500 to $600 dollar gun before I go. Therefore my latest questions about Taurus vs. used. Any thoughts?

"Disagreement stems not from what is said, but how it's interpreted,"
Richard

Hey Bren,
Perfect sense when not taken out of context. The Bear and Moose live in the remote areas only accessible by foot from the line above, they were not involved in either of the shootings.

R

Last edited by Bluebearbevis; 02-25-2013 at 14:48.. Reason: clarification of previous post
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Old 02-25-2013, 15:12   #28
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In your price range, you might consider a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 Mag or Blackhawk .45 Colt. They can be had for less than $500.

As for Taurus, I know their price is appealing, but I'd stay away from them. I've owned several of their revolvers, and while they're not bad, they're only so-so in my book. However, in your price range I can't think of much else that is double action. If you're willing to go single action, get a Ruger.
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Old 02-25-2013, 15:18   #29
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check out the mossberg 500 or remington 870 super shorty.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:50   #30
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Originally Posted by Bluebearbevis View Post
Thanks Mountain10mm,

And thanks for your patience everyone. If I seem undecided about this, it's because I am. Upon reflection, I would like to apologize to you also CanyonMan, don't attack your allies. There's the kicker, the 10 mm appears good enough for Michigan and Colorado, but not for Montana or Alaska. My experience with Black bears is don't get between a cub and its mother, don't keep food in your tent and the proverbial "play possum." I'm headed into back-country Glacier National Park this Summer by myself for a week and I can only afford 1 $500 to $600 dollar gun before I go. Therefore my latest questions about Taurus vs. used. Any thoughts?

"Disagreement stems not from what is said, but how it's interpreted,"
Richard

Hey Bren,
Perfect sense when not taken out of context. The Bear and Moose live in the remote areas only accessible by foot from the line above, they were not involved in either of the shootings.

R






Apology accepted.
Stay Safe.








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Last edited by CanyonMan; 02-26-2013 at 13:00..
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:40   #31
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Right on CanyonMan,

Even after I got your name wrong, you still accepted my apology, that's a double thumbs up. All things considered, for myself it seems a good used Smith and Wesson or Ruger .44 Magnum is the best option. Can't find a lot of good things to say about Taurus. The S&W "629 Mountain gun" w/ a 4" barrel is the one I'm looking at as far as power, accuracy, dependability, weight, price, etc... I'd go with the 329 for backpackability, but high price, maintenance and performance issues. Cabela's has the 629 "Outfitter" for $849-$899 regular price, but I bet I can find a better deal at the Tanner Gun Show.
What would be "wear and tear to be wary of" in a used gun? Or should I post that as a new question?

Thanks again everyone,

Richard
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Old 02-27-2013, 13:28   #32
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Nothing wrong with a used gun...especially a .44mag - most of which are shot very little. Just be prudent about the condition of the gun, if it looks well taken care of the outside chances are the inside has been taken care of too. Green Mountain Guns (Wadsworth and Hamden) usually has good used gun prices. Gander Mountain's are ridiculously high. Finding a used Mountain Gun will take some time, have patience. You can also try several of the online classifieds for guns in Colorado. You might want to consider a regular S&W 4" 29 or 629 as the Mountain Gun was a limited run. (I don't think they are making it anymore so prices for a used Mountain Gun might be higher than a new 629.) The only difference between the Mountain Gun and 4" 29, is the barrel thickness. The Mountain Gun's barrel has a taper to it, saving some weight. Over the last year, I've seen several S&W 29/629's at Sportsman's Warehouse...I'm sure that's changed since November.

Good luck to you.
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Old 02-27-2013, 14:41   #33
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Right on CanyonMan,

Even after I got your name wrong, you still accepted my apology, that's a double thumbs up. All things considered, for myself it seems a good used Smith and Wesson or Ruger .44 Magnum is the best option. Can't find a lot of good things to say about Taurus. The S&W "629 Mountain gun" w/ a 4" barrel is the one I'm looking at as far as power, accuracy, dependability, weight, price, etc... I'd go with the 329 for backpackability, but high price, maintenance and performance issues. Cabela's has the 629 "Outfitter" for $849-$899 regular price, but I bet I can find a better deal at the Tanner Gun Show.
What would be "wear and tear to be wary of" in a used gun? Or should I post that as a new question?

Thanks again everyone,

Richard


So whats in a name?! No worries...


The list on what to look at on a used revolver can get pretty long, especially on a big bore, not knowing what abuse it's been through. Cylinder to forcing cone gap. Visible damage or cracks to forcing cone (that can be very hard to do without a maga flux) A look down the bore obviously, and at the crown, what shape its in. Is the cylinder in "time," when roated all the way around by either DA or SA, I do both.

Cylinder tightness end to end movement, cylinder wobble when spun on the yoke out of the gun frame,(given this is a Smith or a gun with a swing out cylinder SA/DA). Does the hammer have wobble in it, does the hammer spring/main spring feel strong on the drop. fit and finish overal, (and remember, any one can use "flitz" on a SS gun to make it look new), and several ways to make a blued gun look new and unfired..

Also check the cylinder latch. Check the cylinder notches for being "square across, or bent and mushy looking."

Sights, front and back. Are the rear sights moved way over to one side? If so the gun 'may be' a lousy shooter, or someone does not know how to shoot it ! Usually asking questions can bring you "anythng you want to hear." I don't do that one much on anything I buy.

Trigger pull/feel looking lintening to anything that just don't feel or sound or look right and all the above, is a "starting place.."

Rugers will hold up longer under harder use, and stouter loads than a Smith will in the 44mags. If you intend to shoot alot and shoot full house loads, Ruger is the best bet here. Hands Down.

I shoot full hose loads when I shoot my 44mags, other than the times I may use a 44special, but I have Ruger 44specials to do that in, so my 44mags, see full house use probably 95% or so, of my hand load shooting. I shoot about 99% Hard Cast lead at 21BHN (hardness). I load the 250's and 275grs to 24.0grs H110 (if your a hand loader). This is a moose, and kill anything that walks load, (seriously).

Even in the Smith 4" M629, I have shot hundreds of these through it, but it's time to stop. The Rugers just keep going. They, (the Rugers) will one day all start needing some tweaking with a constant diet of full power loads, but no where near as soon as the Smith will.

I pack every day on the ranch, a Ruger Vaquero 44mag/or 45LC, 4 5/8" barrel, which ever I am in the mood for. Hunting I use these, or a RBH 5 1/2" or a SBH 7 1/2" . But I have shot the Vaquero's for so long and hard, I can usually get buy with those out to 100yds.

I do understand that most folks want something lighter. As I said, I was a guide for a quarter century, and seen about everything I guess. And nothing wrong with "light weight," if a man can handle it. Most folks don't shoot "practically all the time" and cannot do so, and I understand that. But out here we been shooting all the time since we were little kids, and load our own and keep it up..

One reason I can tell ya the Smith's are good in a M629 4", but if ya don't know how to work on them, and your going to really shoot a great deal of full house loads, it may not be the gun for you. If you are going to shoot mid-range loads and 44specials through it, and some full house every now in then to "stay in shape," then the 629 will give you years of good service, probably a life time.

Well, gotta go here. Just throwin this out at ya.

Here are some pics you can look at as well.
As for accuracy, the "classic 25yds," as a guage, mine are mostly touching each other on all 6 shots. Won't own a bad shooting gun. ha.


I don't know your full intent with what your looking for here, but if it is for bears and moose and folks, I do suggest as I have already, and several others have as well, the Smith 629 for "lighter than a Ruger packin," and the Rugers for the better built guns. I love SA, and am not a DA fan, but the Smith 629 is a sweet gun for the guy just trekking off into the out back every now and then.

I also reccomend it be stuffed with at least 250gr Hard Cast Bullets, if ya don't hand load, look at Buffalo Bore bullets. Pack the hardest hitters you can, and use a few for practice of course and the medium range loads for most of your practice and the gun will be/should be fine. I do not reccomend the Taurus, in this caliber....


Good luck to ya !



Hunting, Fishing & Camping

Hunting, Fishing & Camping

Hunting, Fishing & Camping

Hunting, Fishing & Camping

Hunting, Fishing & Camping

Hunting, Fishing & Camping


Can't get em' all on here, but this will give ya an idea of what and how I've been packin here, or in the high lonesome. (hand gun wise).

Of course my purpose was not really ever hiking, but I been afoot in the high country plenty enough to know this method, these guns/equipment, have served me well, and never been a burden, and I got plenty of horse power for whatever I need them for. You may consider the 45LC in a Ruger BH at 4 5/8" like the one (black one in the holster) above pic. A tad lighter than SBH, and has a heck of a thump on anything walking, anywhere, loaded properly...


Again, good luck.












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Old 02-28-2013, 00:24   #34
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I have no qualms carrying a .357 mag here on the front range in CO. Use appropriate loads (IMHO, 158 grains and up). A 686 is probably the easiest for me on backpack trips. Day hikes or car camps I'm usually going to bring a little more horsepower - .45 Colt Blackhawk with hot loads or a .44 mag N frame or Super Blackhawk. Snappy with 4" barrels, but I'm usually using handloads that are not full power. A 240 lswc going 1,150 is plenty for this stretch of the Rockies. Never had a problem with Black Bear. You talk to them and they just run away.


I spent some time in Glacier last year. Highest concentration of Griz in the lower 48. Most of 'em been sprayed at one time or another, so some bear mace is not a bad idea. I took the .44 Super Blackhawk with some full power cast 240 lswc's (same bullet I mentioned earlier, but driven to 1,300 fps from the 4-5/8" barrel).

Kinda fun watching those big SOB's getting drunk on fermented choke cherries.
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:32   #35
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Skip the Taurus go with the Ruger.

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Old 02-28-2013, 07:52   #36
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Excellent information everyone,

I'll print out your "guide" and take it with me CanyonMan.

You gotta love Denver Metro Mountain10MM, between the gun shops, pawn shops, and gun shows here I'm sure I can find what I'm looking for. The friend whose Ruger Super Redhawk .44 Magnum I shot picked his up used (maybe shot once) for $500 at the Tanner, although over a year ago now. I saw a Cabela's 629 online for $600 yesterday, but the seller wasn't licensed.

Sure I want it to be "capable of," but I also want to fart around just shooting the darn thing. Have fun. God willing, the situation where I actually have to use it will never arrive.

Another friend has a reloader, so I'll be able to do that too. Have to buy the right sized die(?), and materials, of course, but waaay cheaper and environmentally conscious to boot.

What about those shot gun type rounds for clay pigeons or small game?

Good Day All,
Richard

P.S. Zoombie Steve, haven't you heard that joke about how to tell the difference between Black Bear and Grizzly scat?

Last edited by Bluebearbevis; 02-28-2013 at 07:54.. Reason: Post Script
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:02   #37
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One of these...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=330884350

Or these...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=330518904

Both super light weight (for .44 magnum) carry a lot shoot a little revolvers.


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Old 02-28-2013, 08:15   #38
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In CO a G20 or G29 works for me.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:56   #39
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P.S. Zoombie Steve, haven't you heard that joke about how to tell the difference between Black Bear and Grizzly scat?
Grizzly poop smells like peppers and has little bells in it?

I did take a .44 mag in addition to the spray...

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Old 02-28-2013, 12:34   #40
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Hey again everyone,

Back to the "seasonal layoff" routine from my job after an 18 hr. shift Sun.-Mon. and another 11 Wed. plowing sidewalks with the ATV, don't want to spend all day watching the idiot box. Although arguably, the smartphone may be the new idiot box.

Thanks for the tip railfancwb, I'll be checkin' that site, but I heard there were locking(?) issues with the 329, and Al, that's probably the way I'll go with my second handgun purchase. I think the gen4 has some reversible something or other so the spent cartridge spits out to the left for us Southpaws?

I'm returning to Glacier this August to do some Backcountry hiking and contemplation alone for a week. The last time I was there was 4 years ago when we scattered my Mom's ashes to the wind on the Highline Trail, her favorite place in the world. I have since found out that this was illegal, but "ignorance is bliss." We were a group of 9 then which makes a big difference. For now, I can only afford the one, so I've narrowed my choices down to a used short barreled S&W or Ruger .44 Magnum made of good ol' American steel. I'm willing to carry the extra pound hiking vs. all the other time practicing with it. What the heck, it might even turn out to be a good turkey or rabbit gun?

One is smaller, has pits and bits of beetle shell in it and smells like nuts and berries. The other is much larger, has little brass and silver bells in it and smells like pepper spray.

Richard

It originally came from a Bear Warning sign posted in British Colombia and I don't think it was a joke. Give me some time and I think I can find it in my email archive.

Last edited by Bluebearbevis; 02-28-2013 at 12:39.. Reason: more info
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Old 02-28-2013, 15:00   #41
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My brother ordered a Ruger 44 Alaskan. Still waiting. Been months. We are planning an Alaskan bow hunting trip. I would be more comfy with a marine grade shotgun. I would love a 3" 357 mag. 686P. Seven shot revolver.
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Old 02-28-2013, 17:54   #42
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Excellent information everyone, I'll print out your "guide" and take it with me CanyonMan.




Hope it will be some help to ya amigo !

Good luck...



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Old 02-28-2013, 21:50   #43
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FWIW, the 10mm ballistically is virtually identical to the .41mag revolver cartridge.


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Old 03-01-2013, 09:17   #44
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FWIW, the 10mm ballistically is virtually identical to the .41mag revolver cartridge.


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NO way !






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Old 03-01-2013, 17:46   #45
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Ah the 10mm to 41 magnum debate. As much as I like the 10mm, it's not a 41 mag. I will grant the fact that a hot 10mm is very similar to a weak 41 magnum, but that's about it. A hot 41 magnum handily exceeds just about anything any hot 10mm can muster.
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Old 03-01-2013, 19:02   #46
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Ah the 10mm to 41 magnum debate. As much as I like the 10mm, it's not a 41 mag. I will grant the fact that a hot 10mm is very similar to a weak 41 magnum, but that's about it. A hot 41 magnum handily exceeds just about anything any hot 10mm can muster.
Exactly .

The closest comparison, in factory ammo has been the Winchester Silvertip load for both. In the 10mm it is loaded to about the top of the major factories load. The .41 mag silvertip is CONSIDERBLY DOWNLOADED as a "low recoil self defense" load.

When you step it up the 10mm, as great a round as it is, can't carry the .41s socks.

I personally LIKE the the level that I have to handload to get to with the 10mm. 200gn 1,100-1,200 fps. I also load the .41with a 210-220 gn bullet down to that level for a GP load.
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Old 03-01-2013, 19:30   #47
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I'll second those who suggested the full-size 10mm, the Glock 20.

Why carry anything but the best?
best? lol



Listen to CanyonMan about the 44 advice. He knows full well what he is talking about on this issue.

if the 44 magnum is a beast, tame it by shooting 44 specials, wearing ear protection, and good gloves with a nice Hogue rubber grip. Once you are comfortable with the 44 special loads, then shoot off some 44 magnum loads. In a bear attack or moose attack, you wont feel the kick, and you will be lucky of you get off more than one shot before either is on you.

also, a 45 long colt is a good choice. You can get hotter rounds for it like Buffalo Bore, etc, and they can work on a small black bear. A 41 magnum is about the smallest I would go with. Get a 4 inch barrel if you want to be able to draw it out of your holster faster.

And unless you plan on practicing heavily with the gun, get a double action over a single action. When something with teeth is chewing on you, you won't be thinking about working the single action. But you will be trying to squeeze that trigger!


And I suggest you use hard cast lead loads, no hollow points. And the largest meplate you can get for that caliber. That is one thing a 10mm auto wont do.

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Old 03-02-2013, 19:19   #48
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Richard,
Best of Luck on your search for a firearm in bear and moose country. I know I would carry one under your circumstances. In the meantime, take a look at this: http://www.adn.com/2012/03/08/235963...policy-in.html
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:49   #49
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Interesting read Emmett,

And I agree 100% on the preparedness, but where is the comparison of attacks with gun vs. attacks with no gun? At the beginning the article says, "...analyzed 269 incidents of close-quarter bear-human conflict in Alaska between 1883 and 2009 in which a firearm was involved." How many non carriers simply got eaten up and aren't in the statistics at all? How many dead human remains were found in the wilderness w/ gun also recovered vs. w/o gun also recovered? Think I'll stay on target!

Richard
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:51   #50
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.........There's the kicker, the 10 mm appears good enough for Michigan and Colorado, but not for Montana or Alaska. ................
Just to throw a wrench in the gears, I watched my uncle put a 220 grain soft point fired from a 300 Winchester magnum about 100 feet away looking down at a 'small' male black bear in the Wind River Range of Wyoming. Tore right through the upper front shoulder and down into the lung, heart region. The bear should have dropped instantly. Instead the black bear proceeded to claw and gnash at everything in its vicinity. Biting dead fall trees and breaking think branches in half. And constantly biting at its shoulder like a swarm of wasps were on him. All the while bellowing out a sound I don't ever want to hear again. When it was over, my father looked at me and said thats why he wont go hunting 'any' kind of bear with anything less than his 375. While you hear stories about how a certain gun dropped him in its tracks. THERE IS NO HANDGUN GOOD ENOUGH EVERY TIME.
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