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Old 02-21-2013, 15:16   #76
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Originally Posted by Gallium View Post
Which were more vulnerable in WW2 in the hands of Jews or other minorities in Germany - gold, or numbered Swiss accounts?
It depends. Were any Jews or minorities able to use gold to bribe their way to living? A pile of cash in Switzerland is nice if you live to withdraw it.

The lady who owns the nail salon where Mrs. C likes to go tells her how they escaped Vietnam with gold chains sewn into the hems of their clothes.

(not an argument for or against gold. I'm done with those. Just pointing out it doesn't have to be or shouldn't be an all or nothing proposition)
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:19   #77
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The only people making money with gold are the brokers selling it to investor's to get paid the commissions. And that's the only people.
So, when I bought gold at $450 and silver at $6.00 I have lost money and only the dealer made money?

Ha ha ha.

Funny how Wall Street rakes in billions by taking their cut regardless of how stagnant the stock market has been for the last 13 years. Talk about getting raped. And when Wall Street goes broke, they get bailed out! Ha ha ha. Who's the sucker then?
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:23   #78
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Originally Posted by Glocksanity View Post
So when a jew had to bribe a guard did he give his Swiss bank account number and swift code to transfer money to get out of Berlin or did he give him a gold coin to get out?

And banks never confiscate money right? Ever see the FDIC limit? Ha ha ha.

I asked a question. Do you know the answer?
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:24   #79
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You could not be more wrong.

FDR totally repriced gold overnight from $20.67 to $35 and those that had turned in their gold lost money.
You're right, I misstated what I was trying to get at. The price of the gold-to-dollar peg was changed arbitrarily. But that didn't magically change the value (in dollars) of real assets.

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If you think that gold cannot return as the medium of international settlements, then you are naive or don't understand how money really works.
We've had literally this exact same discussion before. We are not going to start buying washing machines from China by shipping them physical bars of gold. They are not going to buy airplanes from us by shipping those gold bars back. It's logistically retarded.

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As for repricing, you are wrong. If ten ounces buys a car today and it is repriced upwards by a factor of ten, then boom! Your purchasing power just increased tenfold.
You're utterly wrong.

Imagine you buy a car today with 10 oz of gold. That gold gets "repriced" tomorrow. Can the person you bought a car from, who now has the gold, come back to you and buy the car back with 1 oz of gold?

No, of course not. You wouldn't agree to the transaction. The value of the real assets hasn't changed.
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:27   #80
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It depends. Were any Jews or minorities able to use gold to bribe their way to living? A pile of cash in Switzerland is nice if you live to withdraw it.

The lady who owns the nail salon where Mrs. C likes to go tells her how they escaped Vietnam with gold chains sewn into the hems of their clothes.

(not an argument for or against gold. I'm done with those. Just pointing out it doesn't have to be or shouldn't be an all or nothing proposition)

That was exactly the point I entered the thread on - that the prudent person has a mix of actual dollars, money in the bank, guns in the attic and basement, food in the pantry, a 2nd pad some distance away, etc etc.
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:29   #81
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That was exactly the point I entered the thread on - that the prudent person has a mix of actual dollars, money in the bank, guns in the attic and basement, food in the pantry, a 2nd pad some distance away, etc etc.
I don't have a basement. Can I store some guns in your basement?
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:29   #82
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It depends. Were any Jews or minorities able to use gold to bribe their way to living? A pile of cash in Switzerland is nice if you live to withdraw it.

The lady who owns the nail salon where Mrs. C likes to go tells her how they escaped Vietnam with gold chains sewn into the hems of their clothes.

(not an argument for or against gold. I'm done with those. Just pointing out it doesn't have to be or shouldn't be an all or nothing proposition)
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Old 02-21-2013, 16:13   #83
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We've had literally this exact same discussion before. We are not going to start buying washing machines from China by shipping them physical bars of gold. They are not going to buy airplanes from us by shipping those gold bars back. It's logistically retarded.
What if Saudi Arabia says they want gold for oil? From every country on the planet. Every country then needs gold for oil. When nations balance the books at the end of the year, the deficit/surplus has to be paid. Right now, that is done in dollar. Soon it will be gold.

Every day purchases will be made in the local currency, but gold will be used for international transactions. Currencies will all then float against gold. That is freegold.




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Imagine you buy a car today with 10 oz of gold. That gold gets "repriced" tomorrow. Can the person you bought a car from, who now has the gold, come back to you and buy the car back with 1 oz of gold?

No, of course not. You wouldn't agree to the transaction. The value of the real assets hasn't changed.
You are used to countries devaluing their currencies whereby one day you buy a car for $10,000 and the next day it costs twice as much because the currency has been devalued by 50%. The same can happen but in reverse. That is what I am talking about. Again, it is foreign to most logic, but it is coming. It is called freegold. Read fofoa and you will understand it much more.
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Old 02-21-2013, 17:25   #84
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The last couple of generations have been brainwashed into thinking that they need a high FICO score to live. The amount of c/c, student loans, personal loans, and car notes has exploded to the point that it's a crisis.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/1389#s-p14-sa-i0
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Old 02-21-2013, 18:05   #85
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The point of PM's is to ensure your ability to obtain either goods/services in times of financial hardship or to exchange it for fiat currency to do the same in times of hardships or collapse.

I learned to insure with PM's from my Great Grand Father who was able to move the family from the mid-west during not only the depression but dust bowl, to the Pacific Northwest using the gold he refused to give back to Uncle Sam.

The recent fiat currency collapse in Argentina is yet one more validation for my insuring some of my wealth and purchasing power in PM's. To think that our fiat currency cannot collapse is self delusional. We are on the fast track to insane inflation and eventual fiscal collapse. The people that will ride that out with purchasing power are the ones that have the following:

1. Guns + Ammo + Secure storage and defensible position.
2. Adequate food stores.
3. Access to clean water that is not controlled or regulated.
4. The ability to grow/hunt food as needed.
5. Have a significant insurance pile of PM's that can be traded for goods/services that are otherwise out of their realm of control.
Thankfully, someone around here is thinking.


Do you really want to trust a guy telling you to sell your gold for 25-35% of value to a company that's no better than payday loans?
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Old 02-21-2013, 20:58   #86
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I've always wondered how someone is going to get exact change back for a 4-pack of toilet paper when using a 1oz gold coin.
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Old 02-21-2013, 21:15   #87
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What if Saudi Arabia says they want gold for oil? From every country on the planet.
What would they do with the gold?

Well, they'd use it to purchase imported goods.

So, they'd turn around and ship it right back.

And then someone would say, "hey, rather than shipping these gold bars back and forth, why don't we just store them somewhere and have someone we trust keep track of which one of us owns how many of them at any given time?"

The idea that any modern economy would depend on shipping physical gold bars anywhere is ludicrous.

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You are used to countries devaluing their currencies whereby one day you buy a car for $10,000 and the next day it costs twice as much because the currency has been devalued by 50%.
A car is a car, and a nugget of gold is a nugget of gold.

You are arguing that the gold has intrinsic value and the dollar does not.

If that were the case, then "some amount" of gold would be equal to one car. It would not matter what the nominal price of gold was in dollars. If gold were arbitrarily repriced in dollar terms, your purchasing power would not change. That's why fundamentally, the idea of "repricing" doesn't make any sense.
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Old 02-21-2013, 21:32   #88
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I've always wondered how someone is going to get exact change back for a 4-pack of toilet paper when using a 1oz gold coin.
Same way they did it throughout 5000 years of civilization.
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Old 02-21-2013, 23:11   #89
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Same way they did it throughout 5000 years of civilization.
You know those teenage cashiers at Walmart and McDonalds look at me funny whenever I hand them a $2 dollar bill or a 50 coin. I doubt they are set up to take 1 oz gold coins at Walmart.

You really think you will get exactly what your gold is worth in an economic crisis when you try to trade for goods?
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Old 02-21-2013, 23:23   #90
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You really think you will get exactly what your gold is worth in an economic crisis when you try to trade for goods?
I'll bet the vast majority of people do not know what gold closed at today, and if the SHTF tomorrow I can only imagine what it would be considered to be worth by just about everyone. "Hey man, this coin was worth $1,600 the day before TEOTWAWKI" ain't going to cut it. HH
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:46   #91
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I'll bet the vast majority of people do not know what gold closed at today, and if the SHTF tomorrow I can only imagine what it would be considered to be worth by just about everyone. "Hey man, this coin was worth $1,600 the day before TEOTWAWKI" ain't going to cut it. HH
That does not mean that there are not people out there who would know the closing price on the day of "TSHTF", and also the present price, at least to the extent of the local market.

Notice, it has always been thus.

It does not mean that there would not be people who already have for themselves an abundance of food, water, ammo, liquor, toilet-paper, and everything else...
People who will want the one or two gold coins you may be holding.

To believe otherwise is silly...
Not everyone lives just one or two grades above the "hand-to-mouth" level.
All of human history tells us this.

People of modest means (and I am a member of that group) almost always see the world through their own lens, even as they are standing on a pier gazing at a 25-million-dollar yacht.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:53   #92
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I've always wondered how someone is going to get exact change back for a 4-pack of toilet paper when using a 1oz gold coin.
How would you get "exact change" back from 5 shares of Apple stock for a 4-pack of toilet paper?

If you really, really needed toilet paper and all you had was 5 share of Apple stock, do you think it possible you could find a way to manage to obtain toilet paper?

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You know those teenage cashiers at Walmart and McDonalds look at me funny whenever I hand them a $2 dollar bill or a 50 coin. I doubt they are set up to take 1 oz gold coins at Walmart.

You really think you will get exactly what your gold is worth in an economic crisis when you try to trade for goods?


You really think anyone who holds gold in such times will be attempting to use it at the Walmart checkout line?

Your premise is just silly, childlike even...
The last sentence especially so.


Yeah, Walmart MAY still have goods you need in such extreme times..
And you WILL ALWAYS find people with dollars who will take your gold. Dollars that you can then spend at Walmart or with the blacksmith down the street.

When or where in all of human history, the eastern world or the western hemisphere, has it EVER been different?
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:58   #93
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What would they do with the gold?

Well, they'd use it to purchase imported goods.

So, they'd turn around and ship it right back.

And then someone would say, "hey, rather than shipping these gold bars back and forth, why don't we just store them somewhere and have someone we trust keep track of which one of us owns how many of them at any given time?"

The idea that any modern economy would depend on shipping physical gold bars anywhere is ludicrous.

...
And why would you assume that the Saudis would resort to shipping physical gold "back and forth"?

What would keep them from shipping it ONCE, from you to them, and then coining/printing their own currency?

Doing exactly that is the story of money and banking throughout all of recorded history.

How is that fundamentally different than what the U.S. did?
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:27   #94
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I'll bet the vast majority of people do not know what gold closed at today, and if the SHTF tomorrow I can only imagine what it would be considered to be worth by just about everyone. "Hey man, this coin was worth $1,600 the day before TEOTWAWKI" ain't going to cut it. HH
I bet even fewer know the dollar's current forex value.....or even understand it.

Most people don't know the value of their mutual funds......or the securities held within.

How many know the value of their home on any given day?

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 02-22-2013 at 06:28..
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:34   #95
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You know those teenage cashiers at Walmart and McDonalds look at me funny whenever I hand them a $2 dollar bill or a 50 coin. I doubt they are set up to take 1 oz gold coins at Walmart.
Neither are they set up to barter or accept Treasury Notes or shares of MSFT. What does that have to do with anything?

Quote:
You really think you will get exactly what your gold is worth in an economic crisis when you try to trade for goods?
Yes, actually I do. I can do it now and in an economic crisis. Its quite easy.

Let me ask you though: When you purchase toilet paper at Wal Mart and pay in dollars -- do you look consider the price of paper pulp and the forex value of the dollar and then make a purchase decision?
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:48   #96
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Originally Posted by HollowHead View Post
I'll bet the vast majority of people do not know what gold closed at today, and if the SHTF tomorrow I can only imagine what it would be considered to be worth by just about everyone. "Hey man, this coin was worth $1,600 the day before TEOTWAWKI" ain't going to cut it. HH
HH - not directed at you but its amazing the people here who say, "Hey man, that AR was worth $900 the day before Sandy Hook."
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:55   #97
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HH - not directed at you but its amazing the people here who say, "Hey man, that AR was worth $900 the day before Sandy Hook."

.....
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:01   #98
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I pefer water, food, ammo and guns in that order.
Amen.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:58   #99
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What if Saudi Arabia says they want gold for oil? From every country on the planet. Every country then needs gold for oil. When nations balance the books at the end of the year, the deficit/surplus has to be paid. Right now, that is done in dollar. Soon it will be gold.
I would say they would sell considerable less oil. . . . because there isn't that much gold around to run an economy of 6-8billion people.


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What would they do with the gold?

Well, they'd use it to purchase imported goods.

So, they'd turn around and ship it right back.

And then someone would say, "hey, rather than shipping these gold bars back and forth, why don't we just store them somewhere and have someone we trust keep track of which one of us owns how many of them at any given time?"

The idea that any modern economy would depend on shipping physical gold bars anywhere is ludicrous.



A car is a car, and a nugget of gold is a nugget of gold.

You are arguing that the gold has intrinsic value and the dollar does not.

If that were the case, then "some amount" of gold would be equal to one car. It would not matter what the nominal price of gold was in dollars. If gold were arbitrarily repriced in dollar terms, your purchasing power would not change. That's why fundamentally, the idea of "repricing" doesn't make any sense.
I always love the "A good custom suit cost an ounce of gold in 1920 - and it costs an ounce of gold in 2013" radio gold sellers argument.

Of course, buying into the stock market at the same time - INCLUDING THE CRASH OF 29, 73-74, 1986, 2000-2002 and 2007-2012, you'd still have enough to buy a local dry cleaning establishment. . . or about 20 suits.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:14   #100
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