GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-27-2013, 11:18   #1
faawrenchbndr
CLM Number 281
DirtyThirty fan
 
faawrenchbndr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: east of East St. Louis
Posts: 34,903
FN awarded M4 /M4A1 contract over Remington & Colt!

Not sure how I missed this earlier........



http://kitup.military.com/2013/02/ar...ntract-fn.html

Last edited by faawrenchbndr; 03-27-2013 at 11:20..
faawrenchbndr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 11:37   #2
TedG
Infidel USA
 
TedG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: South Florida & Cleveland, Oh
Posts: 2,128
At $641 each, the FN M4s are a better deal than Walmart is offering.
__________________
God Bless Our Troops

Become an Organ Donor today:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Save as many as 50 lives. Thanks.
TedG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 12:23   #3
LA_357SIG
Milspectacular
 
LA_357SIG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Not Los Angeles.
Posts: 1,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by TedG View Post
At $641 each, the FN M4s are a better deal than Walmart is offering.
How are these M4's so much less than Colt's? Do the FN M4's come with accessories like the $1000 package contract M4's did?
__________________
"If I was you I would keep it just like it is... and shoot the **** out of it until something breaks. Then replace whatever it is and keep shooting."
LA_357SIG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 12:24   #4
faawrenchbndr
CLM Number 281
DirtyThirty fan
 
faawrenchbndr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: east of East St. Louis
Posts: 34,903
Hell on a bulk rate discount
faawrenchbndr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 13:00   #5
raven11
Senior Member
 
raven11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA_357SIG View Post
How are these M4's so much less than Colt's? Do the FN M4's come with accessories like the $1000 package contract M4's did?
FN won the M16a2-a4 contract a couple of years back so i'd imagine they would save on tooling and underbid Colt
__________________
Quote:
He's actually wrong, after 8-9 shots with a 9mm bullet, you actually get a text on your phone saying "You are being shot at by a 9mm, don't worry, just ignore him and walk away."
raven11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 14:05   #6
bullittmcqueen
Gunfighter
 
bullittmcqueen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Leesburg, GA
Posts: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by raven11 View Post
FN won the M16a2-a4 contract a couple of years back so i'd imagine they would save on tooling and underbid Colt
You don't think Colt has the right tooling to make M4's for the military?
__________________
Check out my channel for shooting and gear reviews!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
bullittmcqueen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 14:41   #7
LA_357SIG
Milspectacular
 
LA_357SIG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Not Los Angeles.
Posts: 1,231
So I'm guessing FN is just producing basic carbines. Apparently a few hundred dollars lower than Colt did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raven11 View Post
FN won the M16a2-a4 contract a couple of years back so i'd imagine they would save on tooling and underbid Colt
I don't think the tooling has anything to do with the per unit cost. It was Colt's greed and their accessories.

Quote:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...etition-06942/
At the same time, Colt’s prices for the M4 began to steadily increase. In December 1999, Colt was charging $521 per M4 carbine (DAAE20-98-C-0082-P00011). By December 2002, Colt’s price for an US Army-configuration M4 carbine was $912 (DAAE20-02-C-0115-P00004). However, the Army was able to gain certain concessions over the years. In July 2006, Colt agreed to lower its prices, and begin to provide basic issue items like the Back Up Iron Sight (BUIS) and M4 Adaptor Rail System (ARS), which had formerly been provided to Colt as Government Furnished Material (GFM) (W52H09-04-D-0086-P00025). Before this concession, the price of the M4 and M4A1 had grown to $1,012 and $1,029, respectively (W52H09-04-D-0086-0040). Afterwards, the price of a basic M4 dropped to $815, and with Colt-provided BUIS and ARS only $1,142 (W52H09-04-D-0086-0040). At the time of the final sole-source delivery order in December 2010, Colt’s price was just over $1,221 per fully-equipped carbine
__________________
"If I was you I would keep it just like it is... and shoot the **** out of it until something breaks. Then replace whatever it is and keep shooting."

Last edited by LA_357SIG; 03-27-2013 at 14:51..
LA_357SIG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 10:34   #8
KalashniKEV
Senior Member
 
KalashniKEV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NoVA
Posts: 6,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA_357SIG View Post
I don't think the tooling has anything to do with the per unit cost. It was Colt's greed and their accessories.
Neither, really.

1) I wouldn't call it Colt's "greed"... perhaps their "laziness."

Because of the terms of the original 1967 licensing agreement (and its amendments) that was struck with the United States Government for the TDP, they retained Sole Source until July 1, 2009... and now make 5% royalties on all Second Source guns through December 24, 2037.

There is no incentive for Colt to get really aggressive on price- they make their money either way. That's why they lost to Remington and now FN in protest. Without the royalties, they would be delivering a competitive price for sure.

2) It's not their "accessories."

They are pricing the requirements of the solicitation. It's not like FN can make an M4A1 for $641 and then Remington says, "Hmmmm... I can produce a carbine to the same specs for $638... now let me sneak in this $45 cleaning kit and lose the contract!"

If you do some research online you can find all the dirty details- including Colt raising their price from $521 per unit (in December of 1999, under contract DAAE20-98-C-0082-P00011) to $912 per unit (In December of 2002, under contract DAAE20-02-C-0115-P00004).

Remember what happened on 9/11/01 and what was about to happen in December of 2002? Remember that their sole source expired in 2009?

KalashniKEV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 10:54   #9
Jack Greenwell
Senior Member
 
Jack Greenwell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 230
I am a soldier and I have seen and fired the FN rifles, I think they did an awesome job. I can't wait to see the FN carbine. Being AVN I deal more with M4s that M16 so something other than colt would be nice.
__________________
When men are pure, laws are useless; when men are corrupt, laws are broken. -Benjamin Disraeli
Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense. - Patrick Henry
Jack Greenwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 11:30   #10
faawrenchbndr
CLM Number 281
DirtyThirty fan
 
faawrenchbndr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: east of East St. Louis
Posts: 34,903
Thanks for your Service Jack.

I have handled an FN once or twice
faawrenchbndr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 11:44   #11
dkf
Senior Member
 
dkf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,778
Is their a particular reason they stick with the carbine length gas system instead of going to a mid length gas system?
dkf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 12:10   #12
marvin
sci-fi nut
 
marvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: greentown ind.
Posts: 1,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf View Post
Is their a particular reason they stick with the carbine length gas system instead of going to a mid length gas system?
because that's the way we said to. and were the government and thats that
__________________

Free men own guns, slaves don't.
marvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 13:08   #13
KalashniKEV
Senior Member
 
KalashniKEV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NoVA
Posts: 6,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf View Post
Is their a particular reason they stick with the carbine length gas system instead of going to a mid length gas system?
Any significant changes to the design would require them to re-compete everything and have a Carbine Competition... and nobody wants that.
KalashniKEV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 13:19   #14
MrMurphy
Lifetime Membership
*********
 
MrMurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Buried in the X-files
Posts: 31,712
FN's been making M16's since the mid 90s. I personally fired half a dozen FN M16A2's at Fort Knox in '96 and they weren't new. Qualified in 2005 at Lackland with an FN-uppered M16A2 on an original (M16, pre-mag release fence, overstamped AUTO) lower.

Having them make M4s is a no brainer, and since they already make the M249 and M240...
__________________
"And Shepherds we shall be. For thee, my Lord for thee. Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine Patris, et fili, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen."
MrMurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 13:56   #15
faawrenchbndr
CLM Number 281
DirtyThirty fan
 
faawrenchbndr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: east of East St. Louis
Posts: 34,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMurphy View Post
........ Qualified in 2005 at Lackland with an FN-uppered M16A2 on an original (M16, pre-mag release fence, overstamped AUTO) lower.

Damn,......I feel really old now.
faawrenchbndr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 17:56   #16
GLOCKRANGER
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: CA,US
Posts: 16
How come Civilians can't buy an FN ar? Are they too busy? I like the Brand...
__________________
C3-2-C7
GLOCKRANGER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 18:11   #17
BicycleDay43
00 Buck dude
 
BicycleDay43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oak Grove, Kentucky
Posts: 2,762
A few guys in my Infantry OSUT cycle actually had FN M-4's. I'd take one over a Colt anyday.

-Bd43

Sent from Northern Tennessee using my LG-SV700. Keep on Glockin'!
BicycleDay43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 21:16   #18
fnfalman
Chicks Dig It
 
fnfalman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 58,906


FN, Colt, Remington, none of them matter one whit to the soldier. They're all made to the same mil-spec.

I've used FN M16A2 and Colt M16A2. Neither of them worked any better than the other, though the FN did have a funky purple hue to the receiver.
__________________
Can you dig it?
fnfalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2013, 21:57   #19
JimBianchi
CLM Number 25
Da Da
 
JimBianchi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 7,127
Blog Entries: 1
I have an FN upper with a 20in barrel, 1/7. Very accurate and completely reliable.

Only thing I would change would be make it a flattop. Other than that, I am thrilled.

It sits on and old Colt SP1 lower. Best of both worlds.
__________________
USAF (RET)
NRA Life Member
GOA
SAF

The scariest words in the English language: I'm from the government and I'm here to help! President Ronald Reagan
JimBianchi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 08:03   #20
KalashniKEV
Senior Member
 
KalashniKEV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NoVA
Posts: 6,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by BicycleDay43 View Post
A few guys in my Infantry OSUT cycle actually had FN M-4's. I'd take one over a Colt anyday.
Srsly?

KalashniKEV is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:41.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 551
117 Members
434 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31