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Old 02-14-2013, 18:07   #1
CAcop
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Tell me about your duty shotguns

We are an AR only agency that issues pool guns. Sigh. With the way things are in CA...long story...personal ARs unless bought a long time ago are a no-no.

Some guys want to bring their own shotguns as a supplement to ARs or replacement because the pool guns are like rented mules.

We had a manager who was in charge of the firearms program at the PD recently retire. He once said, "We will have shotguns over my dead body." Well now that he is retired and his opinion means nothing I figure a little research might be in order.

What are your policies, if any on shotguns?

Armorer inspections? If so where do you send your people to train?

Ammo?

Training?

What is allowed or issued?

What is allowed or not on your shotguns?

I know the current manager is a little more willing to look at shotguns and to be honest for most purposes I would almost rather hit the streets with a shotgun zeroed to me vs. a pool rifle.
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Old 02-14-2013, 18:19   #2
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We are issued bone stock police version 1187's with rifle sights. No mods whatsoever. No one carries a personal gun but it would be allowed as long as it's a quality gun. Mods would also be allowed like they are with AR's, pretty much whatever you want.

We do no training. 5 rounds of buck and 5 slugs day and the same for night quals, once a year.

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Old 02-14-2013, 18:33   #3
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Issued 870P 18" rifle sight. Guns come with a sling and 6 shot side saddle. Admin looks the other way if you buy a Surefire fore-end and install it yourself. Directives dictate they are to be carried cruiser ready, full tube chamber empty. Tube must be loaded with buck, but we can carry slug on the saddle if we choose to.

We are each issued our own gun. We had pool guns several years ago that were checked out and in for each shift. Then we had guns assigned to each vehicle and that sucked too.
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Old 02-14-2013, 18:54   #4
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REmington 870 Police Magnum. Each are loaded with 00 buck and remain in the car. Every vehicle has one in a roof rack.
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Old 02-14-2013, 19:25   #5
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Back when we had shotguns, they were 870s, 18" barrel, Parkerized, with Speedfeed stocks and the old-fashioned hunter sling. I would add a light and a practical sling.
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Old 02-14-2013, 19:26   #6
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Issue guns are 870s with sidesaddles, rifle sights and Surefires.

Personal guns can be Mossberg 500/590, or 870s. Sights are bead, ghost ring or rifle. Sling is mandatory, lights and sidesaddles are optional.
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Old 02-14-2013, 19:59   #7
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Issued guns only, 870P with extended tube and side saddle. We have both 18" and 20" bbl versions, with the extension tubes to match the barrels.

ETA: We have both bead sight and rifle sight weapons; most are bead sights, though. Ammo is some flavor of #4 Buck.
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Old 02-14-2013, 20:18   #8
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Our department, right now, will issue a shotgun to anyone who wants it and can qualify with it (stupid easy qual course). Rem 870P Magnum, parkerized, 18", rifle sights, SF forend light, side saddle. Your choice of buck or slug loaded (either/or - not mix and match in the tube) in mag (cruiser safe, or course), must have the other on the sidesaddle. Basic sling supplied - knoxx stocks on all the shotguns (they're not popular).

Very few people carry the shotgun. We're required to carry the AR by policy, so most don't bother with the optional shotgun. All cars do have an orange less-lethal shotgun with bean-bag rounds in them. Those are required.
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Old 02-14-2013, 21:29   #9
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We had Remington 870P guns with 14 inch barrels. Rifle sights which I was never too fond of, once ghost rings were available.

Federal 2 3/4 inch Magnum rounds loaded with 00 buckshot.

When I carried a shotgun, it was all I could want.
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Old 02-14-2013, 21:59   #10
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We issue 18in 870's with side saddle, sling and night rifle sights. Ammo is Polyshock, even though they went under (if I heard right) we bargained into a sizeable amount of it a year or so ago. Awesome round. I heard we were trying to ok personal shotguns, but our armorer is an ardent Ar15 guy.
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Old 02-15-2013, 00:25   #11
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SPD, what are the problems with the Knoxx stocks? I'm pretty sure we discussed this before, but the eternal issue of shotgun qualification for small officers has again returned like the bad guy in a super-hero movie.

Thanks and be safe.
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Old 02-15-2013, 00:36   #12
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Three pool Mossberg 500 shotguns, with side saddles to go along with our three pool Bushmaster "personal defense weapons"

This year we are going to buck shot for the shotgun guns. Prior to this year, we carried slugs. We may do both, but the consensus is buck shot.
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Old 02-15-2013, 00:49   #13
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If you can qualify with it and it will go in the rack you can carry it. All of our weapons are personally owned.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:18   #14
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14" 870s With Federal Flight Control 00. They easily hold all pellets on the target at 25 yards.

Surefire forends and buttstock pouch.

Even though SGs are "easy" to use, they can make a firing line full of cops look like a bunch of tards with regard to weapon manipulation.

We have one 870 with a chopped stock and I will hunt down any nincompoop that took it for their shift and take it.

Everyone qualifies with the SG once a year. SWAT is three times a year if I recall.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:17   #15
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We're issued 14 inch Mossberg 590A1s with a speedfeed stock and ghost ring sights. Ammo is 00 buck and slugs.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:36   #16
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870's with buck and slugs.. Issued bone stock... no sight upgrade, no lights, no slings.

Personally owned are ok under policy and all are carried cruiser ready..

Our CV's have a roof mount and our 2 new Tahoes have a side by side rifle/SG combo rack.

I need a decent sling for mine... Just got to figure out what.
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:34   #17
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14" Remington 870, sling, loaded with 5 rounds of 00 Buckshot. No Slugs. Kept cruiser ready.
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:00   #18
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Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
This year we are going to buck shot for the shotguns. Prior to this year, we carried slugs. We may do both, but the consensus is buck shot.
Just curious, Steve. What factors made the consensus swing toward buckshot?
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:19   #19
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Rem 870's with mag extention (Parkerized black or silver Marine Coat). 6 rounds loaded, Federal buck and slugs, slings issued but optional for being attached. Every vehicle has an overhead rack mount, and we have a few spare shotguns.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:14   #20
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Shotguns are assigned to each vehicle and are perhaps the most neglected piece of equipment we have. They get put in the rack and forgotten about. Then they're occasionally used, put back in the rack and again forgotten about.

All are now 14" 870's with rifle sights an a sling. No lights. I absolutely hate the speedfeed stocks on them. Despite the fact I'm tall with long arms I find the LOP too long, especially with a vest on. Ammo is Federal flight control 00 buck and Federal slugs. I think our first 2 rounds are buck with the rest slugs.

Other than the excellent stopping power of the 12ga I find nothing to like about our shotguns and qualified with my personal AR as soon as I could. Policy allows personally owned shotguns, but very few people carry one. The vast majority that carry a personal long gun choose the AR.


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Old 02-15-2013, 08:20   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent6-3/8 View Post
Shotguns are assigned to each vehicle and are perhaps the most neglected piece of equipment we have. They get put in the rack and forgotten about. Then they're occasionally used, put back in the rack and again forgotten about.

All are now 14" 870's with rifle sights an a sling. No lights. I absolutely hate the speedfeed stocks on them. Despite the fact I'm tall with long arms I find the LOP too long, especially with a vest on. Ammo is Federal flight control 00 buck and Federal slugs. I think our first 2 rounds are buck with the rest slugs.

Other than the excellent stopping power of the 12ga I find nothing to like about our shotguns and qualified with my personal AR as soon as I could. Policy allows personally owned shotguns, but very few people carry one. The vast majority that carry a personal long gun choose the AR.


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Is it an either/or on the personal guns? Personal shotgun or personal AR?
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:10   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
We are an AR only agency that issues pool guns. Sigh. With the way things are in CA...long story...personal ARs unless bought a long time ago are a no-no.

Some guys want to bring their own shotguns as a supplement to ARs or replacement because the pool guns are like rented mules.

We had a manager who was in charge of the firearms program at the PD recently retire. He once said, "We will have shotguns over my dead body." Well now that he is retired and his opinion means nothing I figure a little research might be in order.

What are your policies, if any on shotguns?

Armorer inspections? If so where do you send your people to train?

Ammo?

Training?

What is allowed or issued?

What is allowed or not on your shotguns?

I know the current manager is a little more willing to look at shotguns and to be honest for most purposes I would almost rather hit the streets with a shotgun zeroed to me vs. a pool rifle.
We have pool shotguns and also allow personally owned guns. They have to be off an approved list that includes Rem 870/1187, Benelli M2, and some others. You have to qualify with your personal gun same as a city gun and after qual it is inspected by an armorer. Anything added has to be of military quality i.e. no airsoft crap. They are pretty open on what we add. I have an 870 express that I upgraded the parts to make it the same as the 870P. Added XS sights, side saddle, speedfeed stock, light mount, sling etc. Our issued ammo is 00 buck, but we can sign up to take the slug training and then carry a mix.
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Old 02-15-2013, 15:19   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boomhower View Post
We are issued bone stock police version 1187's with rifle sights. No mods whatsoever. No one carries a personal gun but it would be allowed as long as it's a quality gun. Mods would also be allowed like they are with AR's, pretty much whatever you want.

We do no training. 5 rounds of buck and 5 slugs day and the same for night quals, once a year.
I own an 11-87 and while it's proven mostly reliable as a hunting/clays gun it would make me nervous as hell in a duty role.

870s with 00 buck Flight Control in each patrol car. No lights, slings, or side saddles, nor am I allowed to add them. The shotgun in it's current mandated configuration is basically worthless to me other than for dispatching animals. There's a reason I carry a personally owned patrol rifle, with which I am completely unrestricted when it comes to mods. Seriously: anything, no matter how awesome or stupid, is allowed for our rifles but nothing is allowed on the shotguns. Like most policies at my agency, it makes perfect sense.
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Old 02-15-2013, 16:58   #24
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Wilson Combat 870, 14" barrel, ghost ring sights, 5 round magazine tube. It can only be loaded on "hot standby" They went from full 12 guage 00 buck to to reduced recoil 00 buck and slugs. I have no idea why.

I remember when I had to pull detail guarding the station right after 9/11 to screen all cars going in, I kept a scenario load. 00 buck, slug, 00 buck, slug, 00 buck. One for the driver, one for the engine block, etc.

I made a guy pucker when he thought it would be funny to instead of come by and get screened comming in, to gun the engine toward me in a UC vehicle with foreign plates.

He was staring dowin that shotgun barrel, until he properly identified himself.
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Old 02-15-2013, 17:54   #25
Steve in PA
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Just curious, Steve. What factors made the consensus swing toward buckshot?
Because we have the rifles, the feeling is that we don't need single projectile slugs.
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