[txleapd]

[quote=xArcher;20004962]

Originally Posted by txleapd

xArcher...

How many of your friends and coworkers have you buried, because someone killed them?

I'm up to 4.

I really don't feel the need to listen to your drivel. Please troll somewhere else.
/QUOTE]

I have many coworkers (military) killed in action. Lost count in Beirut.

Sorry, that you think I'm a troll.

I'm not sure you want to go down that road either. I buried a lot of my brothers when I was in the Corps.

But we weren't talking about the military, now where we?


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[BlackPaladin]

Originally Posted by lawman800

When Barrett Arms pulled out of CA and refused to sell to CA LE Agencies... how many departments do you think were left scrambling to try to fill that void in their fifty cal sniper rifle lineup? Probably can count them on one hand.

There are a ton of things out there that manufacturers could refuse to sell to agencies without even the smallest hit to their sales.

Trijicon for instance could refuse to sell ACOGs to agencies. I have never seen an LE agency equipped ACOG to this day. In fact, it's still pretty rare to even see agency equipped electronic sights. Its all about the bottom $$, and ACOG and bottom $$ are not in the same sentance. In otherwords Trijicon sales wouldn't change enough to matter.

[FiremanMike]

Originally Posted by Sharkey

Also, it is kinda funny that a fireman brought this up in the coptalk section. I also support NYPD cops being limited to 7 rd mags just like the other citizens of the state if proposed legislation passes.

I was a cop for 4 years, and I'm a fireman in a ghetto. I still have a lot of friends who are cops and I genuinely care about this issue. Even if I were "just a fireman", I'm not sure what's funny about my outrage towards such a misguided company policy that puts my friends in danger.

Originally Posted by xArcher

Do not bother calling me, to save your day.

Isn't that kind of the point I was making earlier? You think he's an *******, so you wouldn't bother coming to help him in his time of need. Likewise, I'm sure he thinks you're an ******* too, but if you called, all of his preconceived ideas about you as a person go right out the window and he would most definitely come to your aid.

Originally Posted by xArcher

Also, I use life safety iron working equipment. But the state/fed/OSHA have not passed or tried to pass laws/regulations that only allow iron workers to own better equipment than mine.

I can own and use the same iron working life safety equipment as the iron worker.

As for legislative decisions .......... write your legislators, vote and participate in local issues.

Again, we're not talking about legislation regarding ironworking equipment, so I'm not sure why you keep going there, but I'll play along for a second. If we were talking about ironworking equipment, I would be equally enraged at companies refusing to sell items to ironworkers that weren't available for sale to civilians.

Here's my basic philosophy on this issue. As the government expands gun laws state by state and normal citizens are becoming increasingly depraved of their right to defend themselves, the bad guys are still fully armed. If we have cops who are exempt and at least SOME of the good guys still have the weapons they need, then it's CERTAINLY better than NO good guys having the weapons they need. For a companies to say "**** it, no good guys in this state will get access to these weapons, take that government" is IMHO just as detestable as the gun laws themselves.

At the end of the day, at it's core, it's just selfish behavior. "Well **** them, if I can't have it, I'm happy that they're getting ****ed also", as opposed to the steadfast pro-gun argument of "the bad guys have guns, so the good guys need guns".

Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo

What good is a union w/o the only bargaining chip they have, i.e., the ability to strike? Look at the Post Office for example.

You realize that public safety unions cannot strike, right?

Back on topic, Imagine if ALL the gun manufacturers/ammo makers banded together and refused to sell one gun to the Gov't or any LE agency until ignorant legislation was rescinded? The Feds & the states would be on their knees & come crawling back.....or else all LE will be using foreign guns. I see this as a good time for the weapons & ammo makers to flex their muscles & show the Leftist loons who butters the bread.

I propose a legal weapons cartel.

Yep, and in the interim we'll probably only lose a few lives, right? But that's ok.. Let's take the guns away from ALL the good guys, just for a bit, that'll show those politicians, right?

[FiremanMike]

Ordinary citizens can't buy nuclear warheads, the government should give them up too.

[TKM]

How much equality do you want in this country?

A little for us and a lot for them?

A lot for us and a little for them?

Do you see any difference between us and them?

[FiremanMike]

Originally Posted by TKM

How much equality do you want in this country?

A little for us and a lot for them?

A lot for us and a little for them?

Do you see any difference between us and them?

Don't twist my words..

Right now it's not about equality, it's about survival. American gun owners are getting ****ed, but good guys still need to get access to guns. If we can leave these guns in the hands of the cops while we're fighting this crap, then at least some good guys out there are still ready to protect us against the bad guys who are definitely not giving up their arms.

[Hedo1]

Add to the list Spike's Tactical and Midway USA. These are big players. Remington is also making noise in upstate NY. Imagaine if TX can put together a package to move them. This list is growing and gaining momentum and it will have an impact. Politicians can no longer hide behind the police and claim their unwavering support for their anti gun schemes. Clearly the rank and file and many sheriff's strongly disagree.


What is needed is a police representative who speaks to a national audience stand up and oppose this type of legislation, if the rank and file truly oppose it. I would think the police group on Glock Talk is a pro gun group of folks. It certainly seems that way.

The us vs. them mentality is not something to be encouraged imo. It's apparent however. I've been taught that the military is the military and the rest are civilians. One is governed by the UCOMJ and the other by civilian laws and protected by those rights (civilians). Police Officers are civilian law enforcement, in other words civilians who enforce the law. I think the slang is to refer to the public as civilians, much as other groups do. In this regard I think the choice the gun industry is making is prudent. If civilian sales and ownership are banned then it should be up to the states to change the law, not the private sector to make exceptions.

[Southswede]

This will be a stumper for some posting here: united we stand, divided we fall.

The politicians won't learn until it effects them. Some LEO's seem to be of the same mind. I gained some hope recently, when a large number of Sheriff's stated they would not enforce illegal legislation from DC.

I have NO problem with the various manufacturers taking this type of stand. If ALL took this stand, then we would see less and less of this type of legislation that does nothing but harm decent law abiding people.

Cops are no different than any citizen. But what do I know. I only pinned on my first badge in 1982...........

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by BobbyS

The everyday person (non LEO) deal with those same idiots. The only difference is, in the kommie states they are expected to do it unarmed.

Originally Posted by CJStudent

Really? In just as confronational manner? Daily? With the threat of taking away their freedom and/or livelihood?

CJStudent yes really. Who do you think the criminals victimize?

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by FiremanMike

Because when **** is going bad, you don't call ordinary civilians to come as fast as they can to clean it up, you call the cops. Any business that would make an intentional effort to make it more difficult for these officers to equip themselves appropriately just to make a political statement is particularly deplorable, and those cheering them on are essentially happy about the idea of our cops getting ****ed.

I get that many CCWers have made a commitment to act in the face of peril, but police officers have a legal duty to act in the face of peril. They openly put a target on their chest and stand in the fold, the least we can do is ensure they have access to the tools necessary to do so.

When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away. The cops go to bad calls in pairs (if not more). The citizen does not have the luxury of body armor, secondary weapons, advanced communications and a host of other resources. So the citizen isn't as well off as the cop.......

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by Mayhem like Me

The police are an arm of the executive branch of the government do you really think politicians will disarm them...also it is the National Guard that will be coming to get you if that ever transpires...

I'm thinking this is the exact reason manufacturers are starting to take a stance.

[mntrpr]

You can write all of those responses in one post you know

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by txleapd

Have you ever chased an armed bank robber, who took a hostage, and then had to be put down while he was trying to carjack another victim?

What of the carjacking victim? Why should their ability to protect themselves be restricted?

Have you ever responded to a shooting in progress, then chase an armed suspect through the streets so he doesn't kill someone else, then got into a running gunfight? I have. But I'll ask again: what about the victim and their ability to protect themselves?

Have you ever responded to an active shooter on a school/college campus? I have not. But I am a certified instructor, teaching LE response to these incidents. Again I will ask: what about the victims?

Have ever buried one of your buddies, who was murdered while trying to stop a scumbag from killing people in a local Walmart?

Have you ever visisted a friend in the hospital, after he had his throat cut by a guy who had raped and murdered 3 girls?

Aside from these kind of things, I guess there's not much difference....

What about the victims and their ability to defend themselves? I would say there are THOUSANDS more of them, than their are of us who have been injured and/or killed.

When seconds count, you and I are only minutes away.

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by RocPO

And again: show me one union that agreed with the provisions of King Andy's edict. So the unions aren't the problem.

The political hacks in the dept are another story. Do you get to choose your boss? Neither do I.

FOP. National lodge for starters.....

[Sharkey]

The only non violent way to stop DC from continuing to trample on our rights is for money to stop coming in. A few select companies decide to take a stand and some cops whine about it. Hell the whole NSSF should follow suit.

If you can't get what you need to do your job, I suggest you petition the govt for entitlements like 51% of the voters in this country. As someone suggested, leader in LE should spend more time uniting for officer safety, to include citizen safety, than spending time in front of a camera but behind the great one who calls for more citizen control. The oath they took is the same as mine.

Fireman Mike, THAT is what angers me. My remark was funny-ironic, not funny-haha

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by txleapd

xArcher...

How many of your friends and coworkers have you buried, because someone killed them?

I'm up to 4.

I really don't feel the need to listen to your drivel. Please troll somewhere else.


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I'm at 7. But I see validity to the concerns brought up by this thread.

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by Rleee

LEO's aren't above the law. If the state passes a law it should apply to everyone. Just because they run lights and sirens to a call doesn't give them the RIGHT to violate traffic laws. The lights request the right of way, not demand it. If a LEO has an accident on the way to a call he is still liable if he is involved. That from experience.

I tend to agree with this.......

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by RocPO

Actually, you have no clue what you speak of, but continue spewing your ignoranc. Lights and Sirens does give the right to violate traffic laws, and they DO in fact, demand that you yield the Right of Way to the emergency vehicle.

To Wit: NYS Vehicle and traffic law, sections 1104 (Authorized Emergency Vehicles), 1144 (Operation of vehicle on approach of authorized emergency vehicles).

Yes, we are still required to operate said vehicles "with due regard for safety". But the rest of your drivel is just that. Uninformed drivel.

He is spot on in my state. Lights and siren request right of way. I am still responsible for any violation of the law, resulting in an accident. I can't call what he wrote drivel

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by GunHo198

As a business owner I get large school orders for food quite often. While the money is pure gravy, it's my day to day customers that keep my store afloat. I would never risk my day to day sales by putting a school order ahead of my regular customers.

I'm sure the same goes in the firearms industry. I think the Government has forgotten that they don't OWN the firearms companies, and without them they are going to suffer too.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

Interesting and accurate perspective for a business owner!!

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by countrygun

I am as big an LE supporter as there is (and I catch grief from the bashers over it) but I think it might do good to remember that behind the badge is still a citizen and when other law-abiding citizen loses their rights or part of them, every law-biding citizen loses a little too.

The fools pushing for these regulations are hiding behind YOU and your badge as they take rights away from the citizens you have sworn to protect. They are trying to leave your fellow citizens unarmed. Remember, the people that own these companies are citizens too. The politicians, many of whom have LE protection, are putting themselves above you and your fellow citizens.

The fools have to be made to realize that just because they are elected doesn't mean that they can limit the voters, they are supposed to serve, to 7 rnd mags while they hide behind your high capacity mags.

I think it will be resolved before you wear out all the mags you have for your duty guns anyway. It is a symbolic gesture on behalf of your fellow citizens, you still remember you are a citizen underneath the uniform, don't you?

Again, I hate to see you caught in the middle, but your fellow citizens didn't create these circumstances. The people hiding behind you did.

Originally Posted by txleapd

There's a whole lotta truth in this post. The anger should be directed toward the right people.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

I'd agree with his post too.

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by FiremanMike

Don't twist my words..

Right now it's not about equality, it's about survival. American gun owners are getting ****ed, but good guys still need to get access to guns. If we can leave these guns in the hands of the cops while we're fighting this crap, then at least some good guys out there are still ready to protect us against the bad guys who are definitely not giving up their arms.

I pinned on my first badge in 1982.

I started my career carrying a six shot revolver on duty and a five shot revolver off duty. I never felt under-gunned. I just did the job of going into harms way.

I fail to see why I should have access to a round count that the general public looses access to.

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by mntrpr

You can write all of those responses in one post you know

Just never you mind mister!!

I tried that before. I loos track of the various posts. (What can I say? I'm getting old!)

[lawman800]

Originally Posted by txleapd

There's a whole lotta truth in this post. The anger should be directed toward the right people.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

Agreed.

[CJStudent]

This is a train wreck; I'm out. Oh, and IBTL.

[Mayhem like Me]

Originally Posted by Southswede

FOP. National lodge for starters.....

FOP is really not a police union.. It is a fraternal order that is supposed to represent all Officers , it does neither very well.

Local FOP's are where it is at National lost touch decades ago.