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Old 03-08-2013, 10:51   #776
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Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
It's not about special treatment. It's about being discriminated against because they're cops.


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From what I understand, there's no discrimination against cops concerning this matter. Cops are citizens also. Aren't we? We should not be held above the law no more than anyone else. What? someone doesn't like the new draconian firearm laws that our so called "leaders" have proposed. Kick their asses out and get someone in who has balls and is PRO Constitution, PRO 2nd Amendment. Problem solved

As stated before, elections have consequences and we are all taking a bite out of a huge **** sandwich because of our complacency.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:05   #777
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Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
You are being hypocritical.

Your stance has consistently been that cops and citizens should be treated the same. Yet, you fail to acknowledge (much less criticize) the action WC has taken to specifically discriminate against a class of people.

It's as simple as that.

No amount of dancing around the issue is going to throw up enough smoke and mirrors to hide it. You can make as many long winded posts as you would like, but the fact remains.


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Don't worry, I'm very comfortable with my occasional inconsistency. It's a protest. It's meant to get attention. The short term result is that government agencies and their employees can't buy from a few, BUT NOT ALL, companies. The long term goal is less restrictive sales to civilians too. It's a give and take. Officers in those states that had their heart set on a Wilson Combat firearm might even be motivated to support more reasonable gun laws in their state. Then everyone is happy. Or as an alternative, active and retired police could lobby to only be authorized to possess 8 or more round magazines while on duty to show solidarity with their civilian neighbors, then maybe WC would be willing to sell 1911's with 7 round mags to officers again.
Hasn't it struck you yet that you are arguing against companies that are against special treatment for some but not all? That sounds like a good thing to do to me.

If you don't like the policies of these companies, boycott them. I'm sure Wilson Combat will notice the drop in LEO orders as they are busy running three shifts to keep up with civilian demand.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 03-08-2013 at 11:06..
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:12   #778
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Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
It's not about special treatment. It's about being discriminated against because they're cops.


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How are the civilians doing in these states. They are being discriminated against because they aren't current or former cops. Soldiers carry firearms for a living too, they don't get a pass, and they aren't asking for special treatment either.

Can you find a single officer that has not been able to acquire gear FOR ON DUTY USE in any of these states? Maybe you are worried about nothing?
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:03   #779
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Thank you, but, until they do, your idea would result in illegal possession in NYS, correct?
Until they do...a LEO cannot purchase one from anybody, even if companies like Wilson or LaRue didn't have their current/new policies...so it seems to me your point is rather moot (considering my post was in direct response to Mayhem's post/question/issue, which cannot exist until said laws are amended).
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:07   #780
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Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
His 'idea' is apparently that unless a cop is willing to commit a crime, he has no business being a cop.... At least that's what I got out of it.


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My point is that until the laws are amended, the "Policy" Mayhem put forth cannot exist. The only way for a dept to have such a policy would be AFTER the laws get amended, at which point the LEOs could legally do what I said.

Good grief people...
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:18   #781
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Which is my point they cannot bring the rifles in. And most dealers in surrounding states won't sell an ar15 to anyone with the New York drivers license...
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Your point???
How about a little memory refresher:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayhem like Me View Post
That is not completely true.
I know of many agencies that do not issue patrol rifles but allow them to be carried, so there are new officers in ban states that won't be able to buy anytime soon.

So to say that they will only be inconvenienced for their home collection would not be true.

I also support the manufacturers doing what they can, I find it completely self serving and two faced by the way, I see no cancellation of federal or military contracts.....
The reason they cannot buy at the moment has NOTHING to do with the recent policies put in place by companies like Wilson and LaRue.

They cannot buy BECAUSE NY LAW SAY'S THEY CANNOT BUY.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:32   #782
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My point is that until the laws are amended, the "Policy" Mayhem put forth cannot exist. The only way for a dept to have such a policy would be AFTER the laws get amended, at which point the LEOs could legally do what I said.

Good grief people...
Mayhem said there are departments that already have the policy that they will not issue patrol rifles, but they do not forbid individual officers buying and carrying their personal weapon. He went on to say, "there are new, post ban officers in ban states that won't be able to buy anytime soon." The policies existed before the ban.

Thanks for amending your proposed illegal activity suggestion with the assumption the law will change.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:37   #783
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Originally Posted by RussP View Post
Mayhem said there are departments that already have the policy that they will not issue patrol rifles, but they do not forbid individual officers buying and carrying their personal weapon. He went on to say, "there are new, post ban officers in ban states that won't be able to buy anytime soon." The policies existed before the ban.

Thanks for amending your proposed illegal activity suggestion with the assumption the law will change.
As I pointed out...the problem in those departments is that NY Law now makes it illegal for said officers to do such a thing. The policies of certain manufacturers is completely irrelevant in that discussion.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:43   #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dosei View Post
Your point???
How about a little memory refresher:



The reason they cannot buy at the moment has NOTHING to do with the recent policies put in place by companies like Wilson and LaRue.

They cannot buy BECAUSE NY LAW SAY'S THEY CANNOT BUY.
Which is pretty funny. Democrats passing laws real fast over popular opposition so we can find out what's in them. Where have we heard that before?
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:47   #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
Mayhem said there are departments that already have the policy that they will not issue patrol rifles, but they do not forbid individual officers buying and carrying their personal weapon. He went on to say, "there are new, post ban officers in ban states that won't be able to buy anytime soon." The policies existed before the ban.

Thanks for amending your proposed illegal activity suggestion with the assumption the law will change.
Couldn't they just buy a 7 round 30-30 then? What about an M1 Garand with a 5 round clip? Cop Talk
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:55   #786
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Couldn't they just buy a 7 round 30-30 then? What about an M1 Garand with a 5 round clip? Cop Talk
... or a shotgun, I hear they are great for self defense, especially if you are female....
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Old 03-08-2013, 13:14   #787
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... or a shotgun, I hear they are great for self defense, especially if you are female....
Politicians

Under 50 yards, it's hard to compete with the ballistics of a .73 caliber 500 grain slug moving over 1500 fps. Not a bad choice.
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Old 03-08-2013, 13:37   #788
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Originally Posted by MoCop View Post
From what I understand, there's no discrimination against cops concerning this matter. Cops are citizens also. Aren't we? We should not be held above the law no more than anyone else. What? someone doesn't like the new draconian firearm laws that our so called "leaders" have proposed. Kick their asses out and get someone in who has balls and is PRO Constitution, PRO 2nd Amendment. Problem solved

As stated before, elections have consequences and we are all taking a bite out of a huge **** sandwich because of our complacency.
Please pay attention to my other posts in this thread. I have clearly said, numerous times, that I respect companies rights to refuse to do business in ban states.

My discord with WC is the fact that they have come out and said they won't sell to cops in those states, but are obviously okay with selling to everyone else (including the politicians who made these stupid laws).


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Old 03-08-2013, 13:42   #789
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
How are the civilians doing in these states. They are being discriminated against because they aren't current or former cops. Soldiers carry firearms for a living too, they don't get a pass, and they aren't asking for special treatment either.

Can you find a single officer that has not been able to acquire gear FOR ON DUTY USE in any of these states? Maybe you are worried about nothing?
This difference between you and I, is that I expect everyone to be treated equally. I think of cops and private citizens as being equals.

You have an obvious bias, but at least you're honest about it.


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Old 03-08-2013, 16:19   #790
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Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
Please pay attention to my other posts in this thread. I have clearly said, numerous times, that I respect companies rights to refuse to do business in ban states.

My discord with WC is the fact that they have come out and said they won't sell to cops in those states, but are obviously okay with selling to everyone else (including the politicians who made these stupid laws).


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Can you please point to the part of their policy where they are only refusing to sell to cops? I've read the statement, and it clearly says something quite different from what you are saying it says.

Quote:
Wilson Combat will no longer provide any products or services to any State Government imposing legislation that infringes on the Second Amendment rights of its law-abiding citizens. This includes any Law Enforcement Department, Law Enforcement Officers, or any State Government Entity or Employee of such an entity. This also applies to any local municipality imposing such infringements. States currently included in our No-Sale Policy are:

• California

• Hawaii

• Maryland

• Massachusetts

• New Jersey

• New York

• Washington D.C.

• The City of Chicago, Illinois

Wilson Combat will in NO way support the government of these states or their anti-gun agenda that only limits the rights of law-abiding citizens. Wilson Combat will continue to supply any product and/or service they can legally sell in these states to all non-government affiliated citizens.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/01/wi...#ixzz2MzeSxBDk

So really, why are you misrepresenting their policy? Is there no other source for AR's or 1911's for NY LEO's???? Search a bit before you answer that last question.

Cop Talk

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 03-08-2013 at 16:48..
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Old 03-08-2013, 16:42   #791
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Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
This difference between you and I, is that I expect everyone to be treated equally. I think of cops and private citizens as being equals.

You have an obvious bias, but at least you're honest about it.


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That's simply not true. I do think everyone should be treated equally, by the government as mandated by the constitution. When these governments abandon restrictive laws that ONLY TARGET LAW ABIDING CITIZENS THAT DON'T HAVE A LAW ENFORCEMENT JOB OR BACKGROUND, I'll be a lot more sympathetic to your gripe. I'll even write letters to the companies to tell them to start selling to all government affiliated personnel in those states. But, as long as they have those laws, I support these companies taking a stand. In fact, I've decided that I will not buy another firearm from a company that does not have a similar policy.

Is there ever going to be a point in time where you stop misrepresenting the impact this will have on the on duty officers? None of them have to turn in or get rid of what they have. There will always be a source for them, even with some companies taking this stand. I really don't have a speck of sympathy if an active duty LEO or RETIRED LEO in these states can't buy anything for personal use that regular civilians can't buy. That is ultimately fair to me. When a LEO is off the job, they should be allowed to carry or own only what any another law abiding civilian can carry or own.

It seems to me that you are advocating for special privileges for current and even former LEO's off the job. Not so long ago, I routinely carried an M4 and M9 on the job. I had access while deployed to grenades, AT4's, M2's, Mark 19's, M240B's, and M249's. I've fired all of them outside the borders of the United States, and for a few of those, not just on ranges. I've also fired the main gun on a M1 Abrams. That was just for fun though. The M4 was capable of 3 round bursts. I was not allowed to take it home or own a similar firearm at my home without jumping through a lot of legal and expensive hoops. I didn't have a problem with that. I think fully auto is for people that can't aim or that have an unlimited ammo budget.

When the uniform comes off, we should all be equal. If the government won't make that happen, I have no problem with some companies trying to even that out a bit.


In the long run, it's just good business. The Civilian gun owners from the other 42 states will likely make up for any sales they might lose not selling to government agencies and employees in those states. I'll spend a couple extra dollars to buy from companies that share my opinions on issues.

Be glad you live in TX, you are unaffected and yet oddly perturbed for reasons that I have yet to understand.
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