GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-07-2013, 13:27   #751
dosei
Senior Member
 
dosei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 4,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayhem like Me View Post
That is not completely true.
I know of many agencies that do not issue patrol rifles but allow them to be carried, so there are new officers in ban states that won't be able to buy anytime soon.
...that is not completely true.

Any LEO that wants one and is allowed to have one can simply go to a store in another state and buy it. If he lacks the mental creativity to figure out something that simple...he shouldn't be a LEO anyway (IMHO).
__________________
Big Dawg No. 1431
Carolina Glocker No. 1431
"Freedom is a system based on courage" (Charles Peguy)
"Know where the attack against you is likely to come, whether on the street or in court, and have a proven counter already in place" (Mas Ayoob)
dosei is offline  
Old 03-07-2013, 14:09   #752
txleapd
Hook 'Em Up
 
txleapd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 6,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by dosei View Post
...that is not completely true.

Any LEO that wants one and is allowed to have one can simply go to a store in another state and buy it. If he lacks the mental creativity to figure out something that simple...he shouldn't be a LEO anyway (IMHO).
Some states require a permit to buy a firearm, and you can only obtain a permit if you are a resident.

Aside from that, I don't know if I would condone transporting a banned firearm, or components, across state lines and into a banned state. Regardless of who's doing it.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
1911 Club #75
Kahr Club #286
Lone Star Glockers #919


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” Sigmund Freud
txleapd is offline  
Old 03-07-2013, 14:24   #753
txleapd
Hook 'Em Up
 
txleapd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 6,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by dosei View Post
NONE of them have "refused to sell to cops".
I believe Wilson Combat has, so your argument is invalid.




Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
1911 Club #75
Kahr Club #286
Lone Star Glockers #919


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” Sigmund Freud
txleapd is offline  
Old 03-07-2013, 14:24   #754
bug
Senior Member
 
bug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cav View Post
The citizens, I could care less as they don't tend to help out that often.
That's a crappy attitude just like the company's who are doing the arbitrary ban of sales to LEOs.
I can tell you that if I was asked I would help out the locals even unarmed if necessary. even if it was just to watch there back when they needed it... but the problem there is liability I could not help because I am not opata trained to ride along and help.
I would be glad to give up one day a week of my free time if it would help. But there's no way that would be allowed. To many lawyers.
__________________
Life Is short live well
bug is offline  
Old 03-07-2013, 15:19   #755
Mayhem like Me
Semper Paratus
 
Mayhem like Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,170
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by dosei View Post
...that is not completely true.

Any LEO that wants one and is allowed to have one can simply go to a store in another state and buy it. If he lacks the mental creativity to figure out something that simple...he shouldn't be a LEO anyway (IMHO).
Really that wold be against the law...in many states
__________________
How do you establish intent?
Well when a naked man is chasing a woman down an alley with a butcher knife and a hard on, I figure he's not collecting for the red cross...Inspector H. Callahan
Mayhem like Me is offline  
Old 03-07-2013, 16:27   #756
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 42,711
Blog Entries: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by dosei View Post
...that is not completely true.

Any LEO that wants one and is allowed to have one can simply go to a store in another state and buy it. If he lacks the mental creativity to figure out something that simple...he shouldn't be a LEO anyway (IMHO).
I am not a LEO, so my mental creativity is probably at the level where you need to explain how a LEO living in NY could do that.

Thanks...
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921
RussP is offline  
Old 03-07-2013, 16:39   #757
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,304


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cav View Post
The North Hollywood shootout had a major PD that was armed with 9MM and .38's, a few had shotguns in their cars. They faced fully armored badguys with illegal full auto 7.62's that penitrated the officers body armor and cars.

There are many smaller PD's that could get caught in the same situation. Being in Texas, some county deputies know that back up can be 20-40 minutes away, on a ranch, where the bad guys can have anything and everything.

Not everyone has the money to buy their own equipment, not every PD has money buy fancy stuff. If the Military were to have a PD budget, most soldiers would desert and not face the enemy so poorly equiped. But soldiers get close to the best equipment and get to work in the size of hundreds to thousands at a time. That lone deputy, should be as well equiped. The citizens, I could care less as they dont tend to help out that often.

Soldiers and most other government employees get what the lowest bidder that barely scrapes by on the specs can offer. That's not to say it's crap by any stretch of the imagination, but it's not the "Best".

I take a little offense at your attitude of Civilians. I'm sincerely hoping I am just misreading what you were trying to say there. There are good civilians and bad civilians. There are good Soldiers and bad Soldiers. There are good cops and bad cops. Don't be so quick to write a whole group off of your "helpful" list.

If you have a problem with civilians not jumping in to help, there are reasons for that. Blame the judicial system. Prior to learning about this case, I always thought that I would automatically jump in to help an officer in need without a second thought, after reading it, I probably would, but would probably regret it later. It's never to hard to do the right thing, but it looks like you better be ready to give up everything you've worked for in your life to do it from time to time.
http://www.theshootist.net/2009/01/o...-perry_12.html

Something I learned a long time ago, is that amateurs study tactics and strategy, professional warriors study logistics.

Every PD in New York has things that civilians won't be able to have. 30 round mags etc. There is nothing that any of these suppliers are doing that will change that. None of these suppliers are going to take back what has already been sold to a customer. The State of NY is going to require that civilians lose their magazines that hold more than 7 rounds. Of course the crooks won't be turning theirs in. I have a problem with that.

Every police officer that had a 30 round rifle magazine last month, will still have it in 6 months. They will still have all of the 15 round pistol mags they have today too. If a single small PD put out a request to any other out of state law enforcement agency that they needed a fully automatic M4 or a 15 round G22 Magazine, they will get it. Period. Tell me that no other LEO agency would not find a way to get those guys what they needed..... It's time to stop the emotion and look at reality.

In other words, as I have been trying to point out repeatedly, this move by suppliers is a political one. In the end, it will have no effect on any on the job LEO, period. Zip, Zero, Nada darn thing.

Now, the police officer trying to buy a magazine for his off duty use, or a retired LEO trying to buy a regular capacity magazine might have some trouble finding one, but what the heck, he's still doing much better than his neighbor, who isn't even allowed to keep the one that came with his gun.

I'm not seeing the need for sympathy here.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 03-07-2013 at 16:44..
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 03-07-2013, 17:46   #758
txleapd
Hook 'Em Up
 
txleapd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 6,127
So, you have no problem with what Wilson Combat is doing?


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
1911 Club #75
Kahr Club #286
Lone Star Glockers #919


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” Sigmund Freud
txleapd is offline  
Old 03-07-2013, 18:24   #759
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,304


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayhem like Me View Post
That is not completely true.
I know of many agencies that do not issue patrol rifles but allow them to be carried, so there are new officers in ban states that won't be able to buy anytime soon.

So to say that they will only be inconvenienced for their home collection would not be true.

I also support the manufacturers doing what they can, I find it completely self serving and two faced by the way, I see no cancellation of federal or military contracts.....
Mayhem,

A brand new officer hired tomorrow, will still be able to buy what he needs. Not every supplier is going to go along with this protest. Also, I'd imagine that there are plenty of officers that would buy one for a fellow officer in a neighboring state, and then sell it to the NYS officer for a dollar and FFL costs. It's only a "straw purchase" if the intended recipient is not legally allowed to own the weapon.

Believe me when I tell you honestly that I believe that on the Job NYS LEO's will find a way to get what they need. There are too many people in other states that will not let them do without.

Now, off the job or retired? I don't see any reason that they need anything more than their neighbor the plumber needs.

The moment that we start supporting a "some animals are more equal than others" mentality, the worse we will all suffer in the end.

Even in Kosovo, where chaos reigned initially, anarchy prevailed, we learned very quickly that it was preferable to allow any regular civilian to own small arms including fully auto AK-47's and below. If you disarm one group, that group suddenly turned up dead.

I lived off FOB in Kosovo, and still supported that policy. They were not Americans, but it was their land.

I'm just a regular civilian now, except at Lowe's and Home Depot, where I get a 10% discount, but I think I have a right to own an AR .308 platform. I think it's perfectly OK for me to have 30 round mags for my only scary black rifle, even though I only own 19 & 20 round mags. I do have a few 25 round mags for the ruger 10-22. So what? I'm sane, I'm a stand up guy, and I pay my taxes. I surely don't think LEO's should have less than I do, and wouldn't even consider that they would, unless they think that I should have less than they do. Then I might not care as much.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 03-08-2013 at 05:09..
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 03-07-2013, 19:15   #760
dosei
Senior Member
 
dosei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 4,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayhem like Me View Post
Really that wold be against the law...in many states
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
I am not a LEO, so my mental creativity is probably at the level where you need to explain how a LEO living in NY could do that.

Thanks...
Federal law only requires that handguns be purchased from/through a dealer in the state you reside in. Long guns (shotguns/rifles) can be purchased from outside of your "home state". I can legally purchase long guns while in another state (unless it is a state like NC, that requires "permits" to purchase firearms) and take them home with me.

Bear in mind, my response was directly pertaining to this post from Mayhem like Me:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayhem like Me View Post
That is not completely true.
I know of many agencies that do not issue patrol rifles but allow them to be carried, so there are new officers in ban states that won't be able to buy anytime soon.

So to say that they will only be inconvenienced for their home collection would not be true.

I also support the manufacturers doing what they can, I find it completely self serving and two faced by the way, I see no cancellation of federal or military contracts.....
If the LEO can legally purchase/own a patrol rifle in their home state, they can legally purchase it elsewhere and take it back with them. Granted, NY passed a law that made ownership of such things illegal for EVERYONE...including LEO's. So my response is based on the assumption that they will have amended the law to allow LEO's to buy them for themselves...otherwise no dept would have a policy such as the one Mayhem put forth.
__________________
Big Dawg No. 1431
Carolina Glocker No. 1431
"Freedom is a system based on courage" (Charles Peguy)
"Know where the attack against you is likely to come, whether on the street or in court, and have a proven counter already in place" (Mas Ayoob)

Last edited by dosei; 03-07-2013 at 19:20..
dosei is offline  
Old 03-07-2013, 19:50   #761
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,304


Quote:
Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
So, you have no problem with what Wilson Combat is doing?


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
What are they doing that is any worse than what CUOMO and NYS are doing? Really, how much whine needs to be served with that cheese?????!
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 03-07-2013, 20:21   #762
txleapd
Hook 'Em Up
 
txleapd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 6,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
What are they doing that is any worse than what CUOMO and NYS are doing? Really, how much whine needs to be served with that cheese?????!
WC is specifically targeting a group, which had nothing to do with this legislation in the first place. They are still more to willing to sell to civilians (including the politicians who enacted this legislation), and the Feds (who realize they can't push through legislation on the national level, so are leaning on their compadres at the state level).

The other companies are making a blanket policy of not doing business in those states.

You're stance has been one of "what's good for one is good for all", and I can't argue with that. It is what it is.

That's not what WC is doing. They are SPECIFICALLY targeting law enforcement officers in those states, and not the people behind the legislation. To defend that seems hypocritical.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
1911 Club #75
Kahr Club #286
Lone Star Glockers #919


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” Sigmund Freud
txleapd is offline  
Old 03-07-2013, 21:55   #763
xArcher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Some 'stan'
Posts: 271
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
You're stance has been one of "what's good for one is good for all", and I can't argue with that. It is what it is.
Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
I'm not 100% up to date on WC policies are but what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.

Special privileges for one class should not exist.
xArcher is offline  
Old 03-07-2013, 22:29   #764
txleapd
Hook 'Em Up
 
txleapd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 6,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by xArcher View Post
I'm not 100% up to date on WC policies are but what is good for the goose should be good for the gander.

Special privileges for one class should not exist.
Neither should special discrimination. Which is exactly what WC is doing in this instance.

If they took the same stance as the other companies, which is "we protest by not conducting business in your state", I wouldn't give it a second thought.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
1911 Club #75
Kahr Club #286
Lone Star Glockers #919


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” Sigmund Freud
txleapd is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 04:23   #765
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,304


Quote:
Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
WC is specifically targeting a group, which had nothing to do with this legislation in the first place. They are still more to willing to sell to civilians (including the politicians who enacted this legislation), and the Feds (who realize they can't push through legislation on the national level, so are leaning on their compadres at the state level).

The other companies are making a blanket policy of not doing business in those states.

You're stance has been one of "what's good for one is good for all", and I can't argue with that. It is what it is.

That's not what WC is doing. They are SPECIFICALLY targeting law enforcement officers in those states, and not the people behind the legislation. To defend that seems hypocritical.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
They are not "targeting", they are exercising their right not to do business with the government in those states or government employees. I did not see any carve out for the politicians in their statement. http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/01/wi...o-sale-policy/
Quote:
This includes any Law Enforcement Department, Law Enforcement Officers, or any State Government Entity or Employee of such an entity.
Governments are made up of people. This is an attention getter. If people really want Wilson Combat gear, there would still be ways to get around their refusal to make a direct sale. Or even easier would be to just get the gear from a different manufacturer. Boycott them back if it makes you feel better.

What Cuomo is doing to the citizens is worse than if every company had the exact same policy as Wilson Combat. Wilson Combat is not asking it's government employee customers in those states to send back the merchandise. These companies are making a statement that they do not support doing business with state governments that have restrictive laws. Freedom is a cool thing, even if you don't always agree with how some people exercise theirs.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 03-08-2013 at 04:26..
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 06:18   #766
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 42,711
Blog Entries: 64
Has anyone read/heard/seen any response from Cuomo or any of the state legislators related to the announcements from the companies boycotting NYS?
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921
RussP is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 06:37   #767
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,304


Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
Has anyone read/heard/seen any response from Cuomo or any of the state legislators related to the announcements from the companies boycotting NYS?
10 minutes searching.... Nothing from Cuomo or his office that I could find. People are still ticked, but it seems more about the proposed amendment so that assault weapons could still be used on movie sets, fueling the culture of shoot 'em up violence.

http://www.riverreporter.com/news/43...ders-amendment

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 03-08-2013 at 06:38..
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 07:23   #768
merlynusn
Senior Member
 
merlynusn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 3,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by dosei View Post
I can legally purchase long guns while in another state (unless it is a state like NC, that requires "permits" to purchase firearms) and take them home with me.
NC has a handgun purchase permit, not a rifle/long gun permit.
merlynusn is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 08:42   #769
MoCop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,612
I personally support what these gun companies are doing. After all, at the end of the day and weather some cops like to hear it or not, cops are citizens and not above any law nor should we be granted any special treatment.

Elections have consequences.
__________________
Elections have consequences.
MoCop is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 09:35   #770
dosei
Senior Member
 
dosei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 4,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlynusn View Post
NC has a handgun purchase permit, not a rifle/long gun permit.
My error, thank-you for the correction/clarification.
__________________
Big Dawg No. 1431
Carolina Glocker No. 1431
"Freedom is a system based on courage" (Charles Peguy)
"Know where the attack against you is likely to come, whether on the street or in court, and have a proven counter already in place" (Mas Ayoob)
dosei is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 09:44   #771
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 42,711
Blog Entries: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by dosei View Post
Federal law only requires that handguns be purchased from/through a dealer in the state you reside in. Long guns (shotguns/rifles) can be purchased from outside of your "home state". I can legally purchase long guns while in another state (unless it is a state like NC, that requires "permits" to purchase firearms) and take them home with me.

Bear in mind, my response was directly pertaining to this post from Mayhem like Me:


If the LEO can legally purchase/own a patrol rifle in their home state, they can legally purchase it elsewhere and take it back with them. Granted, NY passed a law that made ownership of such things illegal for EVERYONE...including LEO's. So my response is based on the assumption that they will have amended the law to allow LEO's to buy them for themselves...otherwise no dept would have a policy such as the one Mayhem put forth.
Thank you, but, until they do, your idea would result in illegal possession in NYS, correct?
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921
RussP is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 10:10   #772
Mayhem like Me
Semper Paratus
 
Mayhem like Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,170
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
Thank you, but, until they do, your idea would result in illegal possession in NYS, correct?
Which is my point they cannot bring the rifles in. And most dealers in surrounding states won't sell an ar15 to anyone with the New York drivers license...
posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
How do you establish intent?
Well when a naked man is chasing a woman down an alley with a butcher knife and a hard on, I figure he's not collecting for the red cross...Inspector H. Callahan
Mayhem like Me is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 10:29   #773
txleapd
Hook 'Em Up
 
txleapd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 6,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoCop View Post
I personally support what these gun companies are doing. After all, at the end of the day and weather some cops like to hear it or not, cops are citizens and not above any law nor should we be granted any special treatment.

Elections have consequences.
It's not about special treatment. It's about being discriminated against because they're cops.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
1911 Club #75
Kahr Club #286
Lone Star Glockers #919


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” Sigmund Freud
txleapd is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 10:31   #774
txleapd
Hook 'Em Up
 
txleapd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 6,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
Thank you, but, until they do, your idea would result in illegal possession in NYS, correct?
His 'idea' is apparently that unless a cop is willing to commit a crime, he has no business being a cop.... At least that's what I got out of it.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
1911 Club #75
Kahr Club #286
Lone Star Glockers #919


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” Sigmund Freud
txleapd is offline  
Old 03-08-2013, 10:34   #775
txleapd
Hook 'Em Up
 
txleapd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 6,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
They are not "targeting", they are exercising their right not to do business with the government in those states or government employees. I did not see any carve out for the politicians in their statement. http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/01/wi...o-sale-policy/

Governments are made up of people. This is an attention getter. If people really want Wilson Combat gear, there would still be ways to get around their refusal to make a direct sale. Or even easier would be to just get the gear from a different manufacturer. Boycott them back if it makes you feel better.

What Cuomo is doing to the citizens is worse than if every company had the exact same policy as Wilson Combat. Wilson Combat is not asking it's government employee customers in those states to send back the merchandise. These companies are making a statement that they do not support doing business with state governments that have restrictive laws. Freedom is a cool thing, even if you don't always agree with how some people exercise theirs.
You are being hypocritical.

Your stance has consistently been that cops and citizens should be treated the same. Yet, you fail to acknowledge (much less criticize) the action WC has taken to specifically discriminate against a class of people.

It's as simple as that.

No amount of dancing around the issue is going to throw up enough smoke and mirrors to hide it. You can make as many long winded posts as you would like, but the fact remains.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
1911 Club #75
Kahr Club #286
Lone Star Glockers #919


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” Sigmund Freud
txleapd is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:39.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 659
195 Members
464 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42