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Old 02-24-2013, 09:53   #601
damnyankee20
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Actually CalvoryDoc: It's OUR (We the People) fault.

WE are the Employer and our politicians are our Employees. Right now, it's the insane running the asylum because We the People are not calling/emailing them to tell them what to do.

A compounding problem is our Free Press (which was put in place by our Founders to be the political watchdogs for We the People) has now morphed into the Free Political Party Advocacy Press. We the People need to call/email these companies as well and hold them accountable or we're not going to view/buy their papers.

As John Lennon said, "Power to the People!".
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:03   #602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damnyankee20 View Post
Actually CalvoryDoc: It's OUR (We the People) fault.

WE are the Employer and our politicians are our Employees. Right now, it's the insane running the asylum because We the People are not calling/emailing them to tell them what to do.

A compounding problem is our Free Press (which was put in place by our Founders to be the political watchdogs for We the People) has now morphed into the Free Political Party Advocacy Press. We the People need to call/email these companies as well and hold them accountable or we're not going to view/buy their papers.

As John Lennon said, "Power to the People!".
Well said...
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:10   #603
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We The People

"Actually CalvoryDoc: It's OUR (We the People) fault."...

That is correct... but that fact goes back to the '50s. Recall Joe McCarthy? Well, FOIA and Venona indicate, no matter his methods, he was right and few listened (some did, there were some changes). He spoke of "corruption" in high places.

America's electorate still voted for people who believed in Communism or 'radical socialism' and in majority numbers. It isn't that "rock and roll" destroyed our youth but that, WHILE America prospered she also lost the fervency of focus on Freedom. In the '30s there was a pan-Communism effort because of the jubilant writings of pro-communist reporters in our papers and few comprehended that shift.

We have allowed our education to wane, today's voters know little of what they are voting for and they don't seem to care.
Voter apathy is at an all time high even given decent turnouts. One has to wonder about a 150% turnout however?

The family unit has been destroyed. In the '70s' we had about a 70% marriage number and now we see something near the 50%. Talk about wandering in the desert of ignorance. People are voting purely their pocket book with not one though of their progeny.

The 'shot heard round the world' happened when the Imperialist Brits marched to secure 'musket, shot and powder' to prevent insurrection. Well, that is in part what is happening today. This forum and others like it are a sort of modern day "Paul Revere" but we reach a limited number. Remember the both Wilson and FDR shut down "newspapers" by caveat because the papers did not agree with those President's orders or positions. 1st Amendment. Well the papers are all lined up on the left now. Most are anti-gun but it is also obvious they are anti-1st Amendment and "don't seem to know it" or even care. Those first two are very large in securing our freedoms. We'll see a greater movement against talk radio soon and the Internet. But those not watching and just focusing on the 2nd may not notice. How many of us watched as the Doe vs... created the abortion machine? How many of us march instep with efforts to halt those 'high volume' murders? How about actually carrying placards against the UN? Or go beyond writing our elected representatives by having a face to face sit down with a few other like minded people in that politician's office and presenting a unified front? If we don't do these things, and even now it may be too late, we are going to see a civil war (which will be gun oriented for sure ;^) and I'd rather not.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:12   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damnyankee20 View Post
Actually CalvoryDoc: It's OUR (We the People) fault.

WE are the Employer and our politicians are our Employees. Right now, it's the insane running the asylum because We the People are not calling/emailing them to tell them what to do.

A compounding problem is our Free Press (which was put in place by our Founders to be the political watchdogs for We the People) has now morphed into the Free Political Party Advocacy Press. We the People need to call/email these companies as well and hold them accountable or we're not going to view/buy their papers.

As John Lennon said, "Power to the People!".
Collectively? Sure. I have a hard time feeling individual responsibility for the shape of the collective. I've done more than my fair share to try to make the world a better place.

I'm not a good collectivist.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:24   #605
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"I'm not a good collectivist. "... most freedom loving people are not but we need to be a better front across the boards.
Ever notice (in passing) how (for example) PETA, LGBT, ACLU, NAMBLA, Greenpeace, NOW, Code Pink and literally dozens of other disparate interests ALL ban together to oppose a 'single' conservative entity? I don't think we are good at that and it is exactly as you say, "we are not good collectivists" but I think we need to educate ourselves in that direction. We have how many gun owners in America? And how many NRA members? And those who are not will (perhaps accurately) say "the NRA doesn't represent my interests..." but as libertarians in a manner we miss the unity. Not a kumbaya person but we are facing a unified front of radical socialists who are well embedded in governments Federal, State (less so) and Local. We've met the enemy and 'he is we'... I hope not.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:27   #606
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Police walk the same streets as civilians. A police officer doing his/her job is still an oppressor operating as the hand of tyrants. It is illogical to say that Police are the ones getting "screwed." The citizens that were stripped of their rights are the ones that got screwed. The animosity of LEOs who feel they are being slighted should be directed towards their government, and not to private companies that want proliferation of gun rights for all. Not just rights for those who carry or wear a badge. Selective enforcement of the law is the first sign of tyranny.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:32   #607
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So, you don't mind that ticket for driving one MPH over the limit, right?


Quit spewing talking points that you obviously don't understand. And, the only people to whom I act as a tyrant towards are....my children. So long as they are juveniles, I am their lord and master.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:36   #608
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"A police officer doing his/her job is still an oppressor operating as the hand of tyrants."

Actually law enforcement on any level is simply the "Republic" part of our Democracy. While, and I don't disagree, there are individuals who act tyrannical in their position(s) it certainly isn't curtailed to just police... the behavior flows downward.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:38   #609
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Originally Posted by MattyIce View Post
Police walk the same streets as civilians. A police officer doing his/her job is still an oppressor operating as the hand of tyrants.
Tell us about those instances when you were oppressed by LE.

Thanks...
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Last edited by RussP; 02-24-2013 at 10:39..
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:44   #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestrogustav View Post
....

If you are in a position to be representing the .gov, holding a weapon pointed at a civilian, then you should be limited to what civilians are legally allowed to have.


.... If you are not with us, then you will be against us at some point.

good luck with your decisions.
Police already have and use any number of tools in any of several situations that civilians do and may not. But what if there is not a big revolution, what if things continue essentially the same as they are now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyIce View Post
.... A police officer doing his/her job is still an oppressor operating as the hand of tyrants. ...
My guess is that you have never actually experienced oppression under tyrany. If you have then you know that there is a world of difference between how society and the police interact here and at where there actually is tyranny.



What if western civilization does not collapse with NY only allowing seven rounds instead of ten rounds as is the limit some places now?

What if this ends up with only NY having more restrictions, or NY and a few other places that also already have magazine restrictions and no "shall issue" licensing?

What if a majority of people in NY actually are happy overall with their government and its efforts?
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Last edited by Bruce M; 02-24-2013 at 13:53..
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:57   #611
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Why am I, honest hard working gun owner being punished for the actions of crazy people with guns??
Because that is all the liberal knows. It's all or nothing. Big government or everything goes to hell. That's how they sell it.

A few irresponsible individuals will end rights for all or else everyone will die.

However, that line of thinking only goes for things they don't like. For things they support, they will say you are stereotyping and hurting people and even pull out the race card.

So... for example, rampant welfare fraud does not mean you take away welfare because families need it and you are racist for suggesting it. Massive illegal immigration costing us money and elevating crime levels doesn't mean all illegals are bad so we have to give them amnesty. A few people can't get their own insurance because of high costs due to government regulation and restrictions, well, raise taxes on everyone to pay for everyone else's insurance, instead of deregulating and letting the free market work. People have irresponsible sex and have kids they can't afford or take care of, or spread diseases... well, can't say anything because you Republicans are all prudes and homophobes.

But 1 madman goes wild with a gun which is an unpreventable matter for the most part, nobody in America needs guns, including all those innocent people who need a gun for protection or the ones who actually have used a gun in self defense. That's the liberal mindset. It is hypocritical and intellectually dishonest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyIce View Post
Police walk the same streets as civilians. A police officer doing his/her job is still an oppressor operating as the hand of tyrants. It is illogical to say that Police are the ones getting "screwed." The citizens that were stripped of their rights are the ones that got screwed. The animosity of LEOs who feel they are being slighted should be directed towards their government, and not to private companies that want proliferation of gun rights for all. Not just rights for those who carry or wear a badge. Selective enforcement of the law is the first sign of tyranny.
Do you know what is called discretion? There is discretion in all levels of government, not just law enforcement. You want to take away discretion? You will be the first one to cry when a bureaucrat won't make exceptions for something which can help you, like if you filled out a form wrong and you screwed yourself on something.

But since you brought it up, why don't you name a few times where the police acted as oppressors recently? I have been thanked more than I have ever been called an oppressor or a tool of the tyrant... because I have never been called that at work... in my personal life, that's a different matter.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:05   #612
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Police departments are a government entity and American citizens should have access to the same equipment as the the government. Police will run into dangers in the line of duty , but it is most likely a citizen that faced the danger first and called them there. Why shouldn't they be able to face the same danger with the same equipment.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:19   #613
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Originally Posted by tooledws2 View Post
Police departments are a government entity and American citizens should have access to the same equipment as the the government. Police will run into dangers in the line of duty , but it is most likely a citizen that faced the danger first and called them there. Why shouldn't they be able to face the same danger with the same equipment.
What fantasy world do you live in.
About 5% of the time do citizens actually confront something, 95% of the time they call us to solve their problems including disciplining their kids..

Yes they should have the tools available. In practice it is a farce.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:20   #614
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Police departments are a government entity and American citizens should have access to the same equipment as the the government.
Full auto guns, bazookas, helicopter gunships, rockets, satellites, carrier ships, nuclear bombs... why not? Heck, it's all government.

Actually, just let me have the real MRE's that the military gets, not this cheapened down civilian version stuff that we have to pay for but is not the real thing. What's so dangerous about letting us have real military MRE's?
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:36   #615
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Midway USA, Cheaper than Dirt and a few others are far from fly-by-night companies.
Quite right. See http://www.thepoliceloophole.com

Add Barrett, Larue, Alex Arms, Spikes, Tactical Solutions, Liberty Suppressors, Bravo Company, CMMG, Stoner, Rock River Arms and others to the list.

Hardly fly by nighters.

List is now at 62 as of 2/24 (was 35 yesterday).

Last edited by dudel; 02-24-2013 at 11:59..
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:05   #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonedoc View Post
"I'm not a good collectivist. "... most freedom loving people are not but we need to be a better front across the boards.
Ever notice (in passing) how (for example) PETA, LGBT, ACLU, NAMBLA, Greenpeace, NOW, Code Pink and literally dozens of other disparate interests ALL ban together to oppose a 'single' conservative entity? I don't think we are good at that and it is exactly as you say, "we are not good collectivists" but I think we need to educate ourselves in that direction. We have how many gun owners in America? And how many NRA members? And those who are not will (perhaps accurately) say "the NRA doesn't represent my interests..." but as libertarians in a manner we miss the unity. Not a kumbaya person but we are facing a unified front of radical socialists who are well embedded in governments Federal, State (less so) and Local. We've met the enemy and 'he is we'... I hope not.
I belong to GOA, NRA & SAF. A couple of weeks ago I was in DC and made appointments with Sen Ted Cruz, Sen John Cornyn, and my Congressional rep. Their staffers got a respectfully delivered ear full. I've started threads asking people to contact their reps daily, I contact my reps daily. See sigline. I belong to my local gun club. As of this morning, I belong to the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association.

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We need to do better (collectively), agreed. I'm doing more than the average bear here.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:09   #617
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Originally Posted by Mayhem like Me View Post
What fantasy world do you live in.
About 5% of the time do citizens actually confront something, 95% of the time they call us to solve their problems including disciplining their kids..

Yes they should have the tools available. In practice it is a farce.
I wonder if more citizens would do more to handle things if they were not convinced that after they did someone might show up and arrest them for it?
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:36   #618
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We need to do better (collectively), agreed.
Plus 1.

How many took advantage of the simple form sent out by Ruger, CTD and others that gave you a quick way to contact all your representatives.

These companies would sell to ALL states; if those states did not have anti 2a legislation in place. The goal is for ALL of us to have access to what we want and can afford, not just a subset of us.

Easiest way to defeat us, is to split us. Antis reading this thread must be having a good laugh. If we can't pull together on this, we are in for a world of hurt.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:49   #619
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Originally Posted by MattyIce View Post
Police walk the same streets as civilians. A police officer doing his/her job is still an oppressor operating as the hand of tyrants....
Have you ever actually seen tyranny or the "oppressive hand of tyrants" in action?

I have.... I've been to places where death squads were an actual thing. I've seen firsthand the work of tyrants, who committed genocide against their own people.

Your rhetoric smacks of ignorance. You throw words like "oppressor" and "tyrant" around like someone who has never actually seen them, or their handy work. You honestly can't even imagine the horror of those things, or the ends people like me would go stop that.

You offend me.




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Old 02-24-2013, 13:01   #620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyIce View Post
Police walk the same streets as civilians. A police officer doing his/her job is still an oppressor operating as the hand of tyrants. It is illogical to say that Police are the ones getting "screwed." The citizens that were stripped of their rights are the ones that got screwed. The animosity of LEOs who feel they are being slighted should be directed towards their government, and not to private companies that want proliferation of gun rights for all. Not just rights for those who carry or wear a badge. Selective enforcement of the law is the first sign of tyranny.
I know you are trying to help, but please stop trying to help. You're not very good at it.
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