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Old 02-24-2013, 17:47   #651
Ohio Copper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Dude, that's an uncalled for low blow.



I grew up in Ohio. It's one of the main reasons I live in Texas now. It's gotten better on the self defense front only recently.

I remember being taught when I was in HS in Ohio, that a 300 pound strange man could kick your door off the hinges, slap your wife to the floor, rip your TV off the wall and walk out the front door, and if you shot him, you would go to prison. Why? Because he didn't have a lethal weapon, and he didn't threaten your life.

The former Highway Patrolman giving that class later explained, that may be why an unusual amount of home break in's in Ohio occur through the kitchen, as evidenced by the number of dead bad guys found in homes with steak knives in their hands. I think he even stomped on the ground 3 times and winked after saying that.
Well, if the shoe fits. Notice there was no response from the directed party.

Ohio has changed significantly on that front, believe me.

Ironically, the last home invasion I read about in my area the guy DID end up with a kitchen knife in his hand. he was DRT.


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Old 02-24-2013, 18:16   #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
Well, if the shoe fits. Notice there was no response from the directed party.

Ohio has changed significantly on that front, believe me.

Ironically, the last home invasion I read about in my area the guy DID end up with a kitchen knife in his hand. he was DRT.


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We are cool. Just for full disclosure's sake, Ohio Copper and I did not discuss anything prior to these posts about kitchen knives, that was a funny coincidence, nothing more.

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Old 02-24-2013, 19:12   #653
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Most citizens fail to realize that the conflict resolution continuum does NOT go from 0 to 100, with nothing in between. That's the problem, isn't it? They most rely on LE to fill in the 2 to 99 (and too often up to 100) of the continuum?

But that makes for an easy excuse to throw your hands up in the air and claim there's nothing you can do.
Training and experience...
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Old 02-24-2013, 19:21   #654
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Training and experience...
Training and experience takes too much REAL time and effort. Much, much easier to just watch some Hollywood training videos and get some hands on experiences via video games to say you know what the 'LE experiences' is all about.
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Old 02-24-2013, 19:24   #655
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Just checking.

I live in Texas. I was born in Tennessee, and was mostly raised in Ohio.

I joined the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association this morning.

http://www.nysrpa.org/

Anyone else here that lives outside of NYS join to show support?

If not, why not?
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Old 02-24-2013, 19:25   #656
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Originally Posted by Pwhfirefighter View Post
I have to respectfully disagree with this.

While following this thread, I have tried to see the discussion objectively, which is tough being a non-LEO law abiding gun owner. I can see where LEOs could perceive the action by gun business as screwing them. But, I agree with what DOC said about LEOs not having difficulty getting what they need. I personally have never met an LEO around here that is anti 2A in regards to the local populace. Nor have I read anything from LEOs on here that leads me to believe they are anti 2A. And if it came down to it, if the local LEOs that I know and work with got into a bind, I would gladly share what little supply I have with them.

As a law abiding gun owner, I can't say that I disagree with the actions the firearms business are taking in trying to get the attention of the governments of the restrictive states in order to get them to back off on the anti 2A laws. I have to say I agree. I am sure that there are plenty of top notch LEOs that are pro 2A in those restrictive states. I definitely don't want them to be underequiped in doing their jobs, I want them to have whatever they need to out gun the criminals they face. But I also do not want law abiding gun owners to have to give up our rights either. Living in a very rural county, unfortunately, citizens here are truly on their own for a while if law enforcement is needed. And that is not the LEOs fault either. It is what it is.

I have contacted my state and national congressional folks several times. I continue to hope that the end result will be that LEOs will have what they need while ensuring law abiding gun owners continue to be able to have what we need as well.

Just my $.02
Well said.


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Old 02-24-2013, 20:06   #657
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[QUOTE=Pwhfirefighter;20027839]I have to respectfully disagree with this.

While following this thread, I have tried to see the discussion objectively, which is tough being a non-LEO law abiding gun owner. I can see where LEOs could perceive the action by gun business as screwing them...

Hi Pwhfirefighter, thanks for replying nicely. Getting a little intense around here l dont usually get involved in the threads but this discussion is getting some attention. Not just here on Glocktalk but all around. What l think a lot of people are missing, and only because they think it doesnt involve them is, that this is not about making anything safer, less crime, or school shootings. lts about the Liberal Left and this administration seeing the door cracked open on unarming the people. These businesses are not only doing something about yours and my rights but from a business standpoint the lawmakers with the swipe of a pen just made it 'ILLEGAL' for the entire population of their state to purchase certain products from they're businesses. And then turn around and say "Oh but we still want you to sell to us", just not them. Anyone in their right mind knows its better to have "10" rounds after the fight then before. l am all for law enforcement and keeping our police safe. l am also for lots of sheepdogs among the population to keep the wolfs at bay.
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Old 02-24-2013, 20:08   #658
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Training and experience takes too much REAL time and effort. Much, much easier to just watch some Hollywood training videos and get some hands on experiences via video games to say you know what the 'LE experiences' is all about.
Yeah, it does take real time and effort. That's why you can't expect those without it to respond the same way as a trained professional.

Think about those who service your neighborhood. Plumbers, garbage men, newspaper delivery, landscapers, the pizza guy..How many of them, percentage wise, have formal conflict resolution training compared to police officers? Do you really expect them to have the same skills at 2 to 99?

For the record, and maybe I am reading your post wrongly, but I didn't make any claim whatsoever about knowing what the LE experience is all about.
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Old 02-24-2013, 20:10   #659
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Originally Posted by joeshdog View Post
Hi Pwhfirefighter, thanks for replying nicely. Getting a little intense around here l dont usually get involved in the threads but this discussion is getting some attention. Not just here on Glocktalk but all around. What l think a lot of people are missing, and only because they think it doesnt involve them is, that this is not about making anything safer, less crime, or school shootings. lts about the Liberal Left and this administration seeing the door cracked open on unarming the people. These businesses are not only doing something about yours and my rights but from a business standpoint the lawmakers with the swipe of a pen just made it 'ILLEGAL' for the entire population of their state to purchase certain products from they're businesses. And then turn around and say "Oh but we still want you to sell to us", just not them. Anyone in their right mind knows its better to have "10" rounds after the fight then before. l am all for law enforcement and keeping our police safe. l am also for lots of sheepdogs among the population to keep the wolfs at bay.
Well said...you should participate more often...
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Old 02-24-2013, 20:12   #660
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Just out of curiosity, has anyone involved in this thread who has not already contacted their rep done so now?
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Old 02-24-2013, 20:13   #661
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Can you point me to a place where parents have been offered the opportunity be armed guards at their children's schools, and not enough people volunteered?

That's the first I've heard of anything like that happening.

I'd be more than happy to add my name to the roster.
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A month or so ago, when the guy kidnapped that 6 y.o. from the school bus and barricaded himself in the bunker, I posted that school buses are a weak link, and that parents can step in to protect that weakness. Without rehashing all that I posted, I specifically said that having a gun was not the priority. Being available and alert was the most important requirement.
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1st of all, I really don't want the same guns as police have. I've never been a huge fan of 5.56. I've seen too many people and feral hogs hit with multiple rounds that were still kicking. I prefer rifle bullets in the 130 - 200gr range. I'd consider the guns I have as better than what my local LEO's have. They aren't all uber expensive, but I tweak them a bit, and feed them home rolled ammo (the rifles). I really do think that people have a right to have the same weapons as law enforcement, mostly. CS grenades, det cord & flash bangs might be a bit over the top. I've never been a fan of fully auto, but if they want to go through the hassle of a class III license and pony up the cash to waste...er fire that much ammo, be my guest. I do think suppressors should be available at local gas stations with no special paperwork. It's just a safety thing. I know exactly how loud pistols and rifles are when fired in a building, and it's an unneeded hearing hazard.

My kids used to ride the bus to school with a soldier with a loaded M4 on the bus, and a gun truck fore and aft of the bus. The three high rise buildings that comprised the company grade officer housing we lived in off post were surrounded by concertina wire, we had one command post, three traffic control points and constantly roving guards (3 teams of two) with loaded M4's or M16's. My apartment was on the ground floor, the 240B machine gun emplacement was 4 feet off of my ground floor balcony, it had overwatch of the underground garage entrance. My kids (17 and 23 now) have told me that some of their fondest memories was taking hot chocolate, coffee, cookies and soup to the guards on cold nights. In the housing areas on post, due to the three dimensional threat, manhole covers were padlocked closed from the top.

I've got a real good idea of how to secure static areas and buses.

But just a post on here is not much of an invitation for action. Get that on the front page of the local paper, and you are talking business then. In TX, we can carry right up until we drop the kids off in front of the school, the moment we step out of the car, we have problems. Not having a gun makes you an ammo depletion device to the bad guy, nothing more. Maybe you could pull back and dial 911, but by then, what is going to happen has happened. From 200 yards away, give me a 10 yard window of an adult dragging a 6 year old in the direction of his car, and the adult isn't going to make it. But I can't do that with a phone, or a pistol. I'm not a super ninja, or a special forces anything, I am a firearms enthusiast, an expert in anatomy & wound ballistics, and an avid hunter. I'm not all that special, there are plenty of fellows that know a lot more than me, especially where I live.

In order to gauge how well the response really is, there has to be a real open and honest discussion in a public way. My youngest drives to school. If the bus driver on our route noticed the same pickup truck following the same bus every day, with the same guy driving, and I got pulled over with a carry pistol and my LR308-AP4, I'd probably be in a little hot water. It's legal to carry a long gun in a vehicle here, even loaded, but let's be real, what police officer is going to take a chance on my word that I was overwatching the bus with nothing but good intentions.

Why not propose some sort of armed parent ride behind program in your neighborhood. Maybe even train and test the potential protectors. Make it real, then see how many will volunteer to help.


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Sigh. Maybe as ex-military, you may think of yourself as the lone wolf. But I was thinking more as getting the school/parents a little better organized? Based on your post, you've gone from 0 to 100 without even slowing down at 2 to 99. Kudos, lone wolf.

Again, you emphasize the firepower you have. But how often do I have to say that the gun is not the most important criteria? Being available and being alert is.
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Old 02-24-2013, 20:34   #662
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[quote=joeshdog;20028434]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pwhfirefighter View Post
I have to respectfully disagree with this.

While following this thread, I have tried to see the discussion objectively, which is tough being a non-LEO law abiding gun owner. I can see where LEOs could perceive the action by gun business as screwing them...

Hi Pwhfirefighter, thanks for replying nicely. Getting a little intense around here l dont usually get involved in the threads but this discussion is getting some attention. Not just here on Glocktalk but all around. What l think a lot of people are missing, and only because they think it doesnt involve them is, that this is not about making anything safer, less crime, or school shootings. lts about the Liberal Left and this administration seeing the door cracked open on unarming the people. These businesses are not only doing something about yours and my rights but from a business standpoint the lawmakers with the swipe of a pen just made it 'ILLEGAL' for the entire population of their state to purchase certain products from they're businesses. And then turn around and say "Oh but we still want you to sell to us", just not them. Anyone in their right mind knows its better to have "10" rounds after the fight then before. l am all for law enforcement and keeping our police safe. l am also for lots of sheepdogs among the population to keep the wolfs at bay.
I understand and I agree with this.

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Old 02-24-2013, 20:35   #663
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Sigh. Maybe as ex-military, you may think of yourself as the lone wolf. But I was thinking more as getting the school/parents together a little better organized? Based on your post, you've gone from 0 to 100 without even slowing down at 2 to 99. Kudos.

Again, you emphasize the firepower you have. But how often do I have to say that the gun is not the most important criteria? Being available and being alert is.
Oh no, not even close. I am simply one of many. Nothing special at all. I know plenty of people more skilled than I am, with much more equipment and firepower than I have. I have less than most of them. I'm just a regular guy now. I've left all that excitement behind, Mrs. Cavalry Doc asked me to find a job where I come home every night. I do still have a couple of reasonable toys though.

I've driven at a lot of speeds. I did make a habit of setting the cruise control at 105 mph for a while. The governor kicked in at 107. It was legal. Don't worry.

I can tell you for certain, that when confronted with deadly force, being alert is important, maybe even a lifesaving skill, but it does not stop the deadly force.

Guns are just tools for reaching out there to change things at a distance. I'm only "pretty good" with mine.

Most avid hunters know how things work at certain distances.





There are plenty of people that could do things that make a lot of sense, if they were allowed.
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Old 02-24-2013, 20:37   #664
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Just out of curiosity, has anyone involved in this thread who has not already contacted their rep done so now?
Daily. For those that haven't, see the two links in my sig line below.

Get on board, and be heard at least once a day.
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Old 02-24-2013, 21:15   #665
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Daily. For those that haven't, see the two links in my sig line below.

Get on board, and be heard at least once a day.
I have a feeling you were doing so prior to 2/18, the start of this thread. Keep up the pressure.

My curiosity was aimed at the idea that the gun companies' pressure to spur a group to action may have worked.
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Old 02-24-2013, 21:45   #666
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Dude, that's an uncalled for low blow.



I grew up in Ohio. It's one of the main reasons I live in Texas now. It's gotten better on the self defense front only recently.

I remember being taught when I was in HS in Ohio, that a 300 pound strange man could kick your door off the hinges, slap your wife to the floor, rip your TV off the wall and walk out the front door, and if you shot him, you would go to prison. Why? Because he didn't have a lethal weapon, and he didn't threaten your life.

The former Highway Patrolman giving that class later explained, that may be why an unusual amount of home break in's in Ohio occur through the kitchen, as evidenced by the number of dead bad guys found in homes with steak knives in their hands. I think he even stomped on the ground 3 times and winked after saying that.
WTF, OSP cannot go on private property! Even way back in the day, the only thing you had to be able to justify is why you thought you were in jeopardy of serious physical harm.
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Old 02-24-2013, 21:46   #667
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WTF, OSP cannot go on private property! Even way back in the day, the only thing you had to be able to justify is why you thought you were in jeopardy of serious physical harm.
They can now.

Apparently they can render assistance through mutual aid now.

Imagine my surprise when 4 of them backed me up on a physical formative!


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Old 02-24-2013, 21:54   #668
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They can now.

Apparently they can render assistance through mutual aid now.

Imagine my surprise when 4 of them backed me up on a physical formative!


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A couple years ago, a Troop helped with a standoff in a house. He took his hat off because he was hiding behind a large tree.

Later, not only did MGMT try to discipline him because he took his hat off, but also because he went inside the house assisting us.
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Old 02-24-2013, 22:20   #669
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A couple years ago, a Troop helped with a standoff in a house. He took his hat off because he was hiding behind a large tree.

Later, not only did MGMT try to discipline him because he took his hat off, but also because he went inside the house assisting us.
I can see that.

Some of the stories I hear from the guys around here and a classmate of mine make me cringe. Micromanagement to the extreme. Troopers are first class though, I'm always happy to see those blue lights pull in behind me when I'm on a stop, probably the only one in Ohio!


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Old 02-25-2013, 07:23   #670
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Here are the companies as of 02/24/2013 in order of sign-on date:

Company..........................................Website
AmmoClip.................................www.ammoclip.com
Extreme Firepower Inc, LLC.......www.extremefirepower.com
Cheaper Than Dirt....................www.cheaperthandirt.com
MidwayUSA..............................www.midwayusa.com
Barrett.....................................www.barrett.net
Dead Bang Guns.......................www.deadbangguns.com
Tier One Arms..........................www.tieronearms.com
Old Grouch's Military Surplus.....www.oldgrouch.com
Predator Intelligence.................www.predatorarmament.com
LaRue Tactical..........................www.laruetactical.com
Southwest Shooting Authority...www.southwestshootingauthority.com
Olympic Arms...........................www.olyarms.com
Templar Custom........................www.templarcustom.com
York Arms................................www.yorkarms.com
Southern Appalachian Arms.......www.southernapparms.com
Bullwater Enterprises LLC..........www.aandtfirearms.com
West Fork Armory.....................www.westforkarmory.com
Iron Goat Guns.........................www.irongoatguns.com
Trident Armory.........................www.tridentarmory.net
Smith Enterprise, Inc................www.smithenterprise.com
Alex Arms................................www.alexarms.com
OFA Tactical.............................www.ochsnergroup.com
Spike's Tactical.........................www.spikestactical.com
Quality Arms Idaho...................www.qualityarmsidaho.com
Liberty Suppressors...................www.libertycans.net
J&T Family of Companies...........www.star15.com
American Spirit Arms................www.americanspiritarms.com
Primary Weapons Systems.........www.primaryweapons.com
Tactical Solutions......................www.tacticalsol.com
Head Down Products, LLC...........www.headdownproducts.com
Exile Machine............................www.exilemachine.net
J&G Sales, Ltd...........................www.jgsales.com
Bravo Company USA..................www.bravocompanyusa.com
ACE LTD....................................www.riflestocks.com
Kiss Tactical..............................www.kisstactical.com
NEMO Arms, Inc........................www.nemoarms.com
Top Gun Supply.........................www.topgunsupply.com
Red Jacket Firearms...................www.redjacketfirearms.com
Rock River Arms ........................www.rockriverarms.com
Crusader Weaponry....................www.crusaderweaponry.com
Badger Peak..............................www.badgerpeak.com
Controlled Chaos Arms...............www.controlledchaosarms.com
Big Horn Armory........................www.bighornarmory.com
One Source Tactical....................www.onesourcetactical.com
CMMG........................................www.cmmginc.com
SRT Arms...................................www.srtarms.com
Norton Firearms.........................www.nortonfirearms.com
Umlaut Industries LLC.................www.umlautarms.com
Warbirds Custom Guns................www.warbirdscustomguns.com
JABTAC......................................www.jabtac.com
Stoner Arms...............................www.stonerarms.com
3 Rivers Precision LLC.................www.3riversprecision.com
2A Firearms................................www.2afirearmsdealer.com
Lanco Tactical LLC.......................www.lancotactical.com
Thunder Beast Arms Corp............www.thunderbeastarms.com
2A Armament.............................www.2a-arms.com
Rocky Top Tactical......................www.rockytoptactical.com
Predator Tactical.........................www.predatortactical.com
Rhino Arms LLC..........................www.rhinoarmsllc.com
Delmarva Shooting Supply...........www.delmarvashootingsupply.com
OJ's Gun Shop............................www.facebook.com/ojgunshop
OCS Guns..................................www.ocsguns.com
Progressive Micro Devices............www.progressivemicro.com
Citizen Arms...............................www.citizenarms.com
Csspecs Magazines......................www.csspecs.com
MFI............................................www.mfiap.com
Gwacs Armory LLC......................www.gwacsarmory.com
Huntertown Arms.......................www.huntertownarms.com
Daniel Byer FFL..........................www.facebook.com
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Old 02-25-2013, 13:45   #671
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The police are going to be the vehicle to enforce Obama's and Como's new gun laws. Therefore they must not understand the 2nd Amendment well and should not be armed any better than the citizens they are suppose to protect.
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Old 02-25-2013, 14:18   #672
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The police are going to be the vehicle to enforce Obama's and Como's new gun laws. Therefore they must not understand the 2nd Amendment well and should not be armed any better than the citizens they are suppose to protect.
Who is "they"? The police? All over 1,000,000 state and local police officers?
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Old 02-25-2013, 14:23   #673
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Who is "they"? The police? All over 1,000,000 state and local police officers?
Don't feed them. His afternoon dose hasn't kicked in yet. Hell be gone soon.


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Old 02-25-2013, 14:31   #674
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Police can be criminals too... Look at the gang infiltration of alot of large departments and Military units... Easy access to intel and weapons.

I know alot of good Police Officers, and Military folks that are trying to make a difference, however, there are alot of bad apples that I don't believe should be outgunning me.
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Old 02-25-2013, 14:33   #675
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The police are going to be the vehicle to enforce Obama's and Como's new gun laws. Therefore they must not understand the 2nd Amendment well and should not be armed any better than the citizens they are suppose to protect.
Clearly you don't understand that Police officers are people too and have families, bills, and much, if not more problems that a civilian. Most are as skeptical of the gov as you and I, but if you think they will turn on you, you are crazy. Some will, just like your neighbor, but don't think all will.
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Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42