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Old 02-21-2013, 21:37   #426
maestrogustav
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Originally Posted by msu_grad_121 View Post
I started my career as a part time officer under the last AWB, and I wasn't able to buy high cap mags, so yeah, I wouldn't care. But of course you know me better than I do, don't you?

I learned a long time ago that there are certain things that are beyond my control. I do what I can to change the things I can, and put the rest out of my mind.

I worked the same way under that AWB as I have under this restriction, letters, calls and emails. So before you go putting words in my mouth and making downright ridiculous leaps, know what you're talking about.

there are things beyond your control. Like the orders you receive?

Which orders won't you obey? Would it be beyond your control if you were ordered to confiscate weapons from citizens, if ordered to do so? And shoot them if they refuse?

That, my friends, is the problem. And it will go to a place that is very dark.
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Old 02-21-2013, 21:39   #427
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Dave I sure hope your joking. If not I hope you know that gun bans don't work, I guess I figured that was a given. LEOs aren't interested in being evenly matched, we kinda like to have the odds in our advantage. There is a world of difference from feeling outgunned and being outgunned.

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The only parts of my last post that weren't tongue and cheek were the first paragraph, and the first 2/3's of the last paragraph.

I know, and you know that these gun bans have NOTHING to do with taking guns "off the street" and out of the hands of bad guys. You and I both know that these bands have everything to do with taking them out of the hands out of law abiding citizens.

Listen, I want our police officers to be as well armed as they can, to keep themselves and other citizens protected, as much as you can realistically do the latter. However what you and others in this thread are missing is that these companies are NOT the bad guys, they have a right to say what they will sell and to whom. Yes their refusal to sell to certain states may impact police officers, and I'm sorry for that.

What the latter means for rank and file officers is that they must have their voices collectively heard, and refuse to stand by as their leadership, both senior, and union state their support for these unconstitutional acts. My understanding is the vast majority of rank and file police officers do NOT support these bans. This is GOOD! You want law abiding citizens to be lawfully armed, and yes with firearms and associated accessories available to you and your fellow police officers.

In reality it is the legislatures in these states who are "screwing cops." As much as maybe some of your fellow police officers may think this is unfair, you must sound off with one collective voice and tell your chiefs, and unions, and most importantly your legislature, and unequivocally state that you do NOT support any ban that disenfranchises law abiding citizens, while keeping really violent criminals unaffected. You and your fellow officers must step up, stand forth, and be counted in this fight, alongside non leo law abiding citizens, the overwhelming majority of whom gladly support the work you and your fellow police officers do on a daily basis.

On the other side of this, there are a few posting here that are not demonstrating the above, and really using this thread as a way to vent their thinly veiled anti-police attitudes. Of course they'll couch it as in defense of their constitutional rights. I believe Samuel Johnson said once that "patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels."

Best,

Dave

Last edited by D.S.Brown; 02-21-2013 at 21:49..
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Old 02-21-2013, 21:40   #428
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Originally Posted by maestrogustav View Post
there are things beyond your control. Like the orders you receive?

Which orders won't you obey? Would it be beyond your control if you were ordered to confiscate weapons from citizens, if ordered to do so? And shoot them if they refuse?

That, my friends, is the problem. And it will go to a place that is very dark.

Your anger and the anger of plenty of others is VERY misguided.
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Old 02-21-2013, 21:45   #429
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Countrygun, my point was that there are lots of items/privileges that aren't legal for everybody but that some people need for their jobs. I'm fine with everyone having higher cap mags. Like it or not LEOs have privileges and are in situations that the average person is generally not. LEOs are just like everybody else until one gets in trouble or messes up.

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Dear God, THIS is the problem.

The cop won't show up til you're already dead. If there's only one bad guy coming through your door, your reduced cap mag may be enough. But you may have to have a conversation with the third guy, as you stand there with an empty gun.

LEOs and .gov men and women should have absolutely NO "privileges" above or beyond what citizens have.. Everything American screams this.
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Old 02-21-2013, 21:47   #430
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The cops ARE the bad guys-- insofar as they don't stand up and say these new laws are CRAP.

If you are not standing with us, you are standing against us.
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Old 02-21-2013, 21:49   #431
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Your anger and the anger of plenty of others is VERY misguided.
Gee I am just a couple of mags short, for just a couple of my guns, of having all the mags I need. I am pretty sure they are in no danger from my State Government. I am worried about both the common sense and Constitutional issues. No anger at all. Machs Nicht to me personally

I seem to hear a lot from the Cops talking about their safety.
That is a personal as it gets. The great legal discussion seems to amount to "we don't like it, but follow orders, citizen, like we do and be grateful they let us keep out high caps to defend you" How do you think the citizens, victims, who are always the first person at the scene, feel?

Last edited by countrygun; 02-21-2013 at 21:50..
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Old 02-21-2013, 21:50   #432
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Long thread. I could type a lot, but it is bedtime, so I will just say that I agree with CalveryDoc on this issue (who is in rare form, and I applaud it!) and that I was inspired to fish out the old George Orwell for a reread!
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Old 02-21-2013, 21:52   #433
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I have tried to get some folks to see the other side's point of view, but if you can look at the post he is responding to and then question where HE is "coming from", I am sorry I wasted my time.

Maybe I have to give up and admit that there is now a line drawn in the sand between law abiding citizens and LEOs, the politicians drew it and they win either way.

This.

I noticed "Ohiocopper" is now discussing ice cream.

If guys who are "coppers" don't get it quick, we will all be sorry.
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Old 02-21-2013, 21:56   #434
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Beginning 40 minutes after the Rodney King verdict, LA Police and Fire and EMT stopped responding to 911 calls.

They started responding again-- 3 FRIKKIN WEEKS LATER.

Katrina? Hugo? You name it.

As a "cop" sworn to protect== please tell me what gives you the right to tell anyone what weapon they should or should not have after your bosses tell us to "f" off?

Please, coppers everywhere, join us now. Tell your bosses and your union leaders how you really feel. It will be up to you whether this turns into 1861.

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Old 02-21-2013, 22:00   #435
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Old 02-21-2013, 22:16   #436
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Weather here is cold, but the storm blew through in one night and is gone. Hope it warms up soon.
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Old 02-21-2013, 22:23   #437
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Weather here is cold, but the storm blew through in one night and is gone. Hope it warms up soon.
Me too. Our real storm is set for this weekend, but I already miss my few days of sunshine and nearly 60 degrees.
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Old 02-21-2013, 22:24   #438
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Before the storm, we had a few days in the 80's... was able to drive with the top down on the convertible. Now it's 50's all day.
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Old 02-21-2013, 22:26   #439
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The cops ARE the bad guys-- insofar as they don't stand up and say these new laws are CRAP.

If you are not standing with us, you are standing against us.

Who says that we aren't?


THESE NEW LAWS ARE CRAP!

Does that make you feel better?

Although nothing has changed in Ohio. As a matter of fact, business as usual. Nobody cares? Still issuing the same amount of CCW permits as usual.
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Old 02-21-2013, 22:27   #440
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Before the storm, we had a few days in the 80's... was able to drive with the top down on the convertible. Now it's 50's all day.

I would kill for a week of 50s.


18* and snow all week.
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Old 02-21-2013, 22:29   #441
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Before the storm, we had a few days in the 80's... was able to drive with the top down on the convertible. Now it's 50's all day.
Did you test some new 10 mm loads out last week and not pay attention and cause all that trouble in Russia?
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Old 02-21-2013, 22:31   #442
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Do you have freezing rain or snow yet copper? I got pink over me but its a no show.

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Old 02-21-2013, 22:35   #443
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Do you have freezing rain or snow yet copper? I got pink over me but its a no show.

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Sporadic snow.

Freezing rain was Monday night. It's been a block of ice here all week.
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Old 02-21-2013, 22:39   #444
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Man I ALMOST had to close the bedroom window last night!! Got a bit chilly........
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Old 02-21-2013, 22:51   #445
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Freezing rain here, but supposed to get close to 60 tomorrow.
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Old 02-21-2013, 23:09   #446
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Yeah we had freezing rain too. I had to drive to dayton for training

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Old 02-22-2013, 01:11   #447
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It's mid-40's right now... too cold to be outside.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:20   #448
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It's mid-40's right now... too cold to be outside.
Pssssh! Better toughen up, buttercup. 20 degrees and snowstorm. Of course, that doesn't stop people from driving like it's 80, sunny and dry.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:37   #449
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The lives of government agents are not more worthy of protecting than the lives of my family so they should not have access to better tools for defense than the rest of the citizens. If some can not understand that concept than I'm not sure they ever will.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:29   #450
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Question - If the police on day one stated "We will not enforce any unconstitutional gun laws being debated". Do you think this ban would have happened ?
Without the photo ops and law enforcement groups signing on as supporters, it probably would not have gone anywhere.

But here we are. Quite a few manufacturers are exercising some capitalist discretion, if that movement catches on, maybe we can change some minds. The weather is sure to get warmer for a lot of people that expected to stay cool during this push.

If nothing else, it sure makes the debate interesting when everyone is treated the same.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 02-22-2013 at 04:32..
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