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Old 02-21-2013, 13:13   #351
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Originally Posted by Booker View Post
On one hand the police need the high power assault rifles....it takes a boatload of firepower to stop two Asian newspaper chuckers in a pick-up truck.

Coffee out of my nose.....
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Old 02-21-2013, 13:14   #352
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Originally Posted by FiremanMike View Post
When **** is going really bad at your house, and you need the cops to come in a hurry and fix things, legislators are now creating a risk that these cops will be under gunned to mitigate the worst day of your life. These legislators are opting to cease these sales regardless of whether or not LE exemptions exist.

Dig?
Fixed it for you to put the blame where it properly belongs.
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Old 02-21-2013, 13:19   #353
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Fixed it for you to put the blame where it properly belongs.
Legislators created this problem, there's no question about it. These companies are throwing gasoline on the fire and cops under the bus and are an equal party in terms of blame for a detestable political game that puts people at risk (cops and non-cops alike) to perpetuate their respective political agendas.

There are other ways to fight this, putting innocent people into harms way is just pathetic, and whether or not you care to admit it, these companies are now active participants in that.

But hey, at the end of the day, CEOs and legislators alike will keep making tons of money, so who cares if a cop or two gets killed right? To paraphrase many in this thread, it's essentially just "collateral damage".
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Old 02-21-2013, 13:23   #354
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When **** is going really bad at your house, and you need the cops to come in a hurry and fix things, companies are now creating a risk that these cops will be under gunned to mitigate the worst day of your life. These companies are opting to cease these sales regardless of whether or not LE exemptions exist.

Dig?
By the time police arrive to a violent crime, it's typically too late (not there fault) just not enough police to cover many cities and rural areas. That is why we shouldn't be limited to 7 round mags and not be able to own other weapons that we could use god forbid we are in a violent situation.
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Old 02-21-2013, 13:29   #355
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By the time police arrive to a violent crime, it's typically too late (not there fault) just not enough police to cover many cities and rural areas. That is why we shouldn't be limited to 7 round mags and not be able to own other weapons that we could use god forbid we are in a violent situation.
Oh FFS no one here is saying they support these absurd magazine capacity limits, assault weapons bans, or anything of the sort.

The question at hand is, Does NOBODY get access to assault rifles and "high capacity magazines" or should we at least allow SOME good guys (i.e. police officers) to get access to them while we work as adults to repeal these ridiculous laws. At least this way the bad guys have SOME opposition.

I guess what I'm reading from the selfish, short-sighted masses who are posting here is that "no, screw the cops, if I can't have it neither can they". So we're left with a system where ONLY THE BAD-GUYS have access to these weapons while we work like children against each other to repeal these ridiculous gun laws.
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They made bad choices and expect us to pay the price? I don't think so, Tim.

Last edited by FiremanMike; 02-21-2013 at 13:30..
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Old 02-21-2013, 14:53   #356
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Originally Posted by FiremanMike View Post
Oh FFS no one here is saying they support these absurd magazine capacity limits, assault weapons bans, or anything of the sort.

The question at hand is, Does NOBODY get access to assault rifles and "high capacity magazines" or should we at least allow SOME good guys (i.e. police officers) to get access to them while we work as adults to repeal these ridiculous laws. At least this way the bad guys have SOME opposition.

I guess what I'm reading from the selfish, short-sighted masses who are posting here is that "no, screw the cops, if I can't have it neither can they". So we're left with a system where ONLY THE BAD-GUYS have access to these weapons while we work like children against each other to repeal these ridiculous gun laws.
I hear you but unfortunately those who would write and pass such laws believe that what they are doing will keep the bad guys from having access to such firearms and magazines so they are not going to get that point.
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:05   #357
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I can see the logic here. In New York, the wonderfully intelligent legislators forgot to include an exemption for present and RETIRED police officers. Now, I can't go around shooting tanks, machine guns and AT4's now that I'm retired from the Army, and the civilian rules apply to me now too. I think that should be the same for retired law enforcement. The "Some animals are more equal than others" rules need to go.

Where the logic comes in is when the law enforcement community found out that they would have to suffer the same restrictions as the poor peasants, they rebelled, and the got legislators attention fast. Ding, there's an idea.

So, since they have pull, and many big city police organizations support gun/magazine/ammo control, they should get some too. I personally support magazine manufacturers not selling to any government employee or entity in a state with magazine restrictions, any magazine that does not comply. I support firearms manufacturers not selling to any government employee or entity in a state with an assault weapons ban, any weapon that might be considered an assault weapon in that state. I support ammunition manufacturers not selling to any government employee or entity within a state any ammunition (JHP, Other expanding etc.) that is not legally ownable by the citizens in that state.

Those manufacturers should cancel all current orders for any government employee or entity within those states and offer the civilians one of three options.

1. Complete the order with shipping to an alternate out of state address.
2. Cancel the order at no charge.
3. Hold the order for 6 months upon request of the customer while they relocate their home to a 2nd Amendment Friendly state.



Honestly, if all I need is Joe Biden's double barrel shotgun, then that's all the police need too.

If the police and other government employees and entities believe this is unbearable, maybe they will get off their backsides and start lobbying for the regular citizens too. If not, there are plenty of double barrel shotguns still available on gunbroker.com.


For full disclosure, I am a government employee. Of course I live in Texas......

Cop Talk
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:14   #358
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But hey, at the end of the day, CEOs and legislators alike will keep making tons of money, so who cares if a cop or two gets killed right?
I don't see how giving up a significant portion of a companies sales allows the company to "keep making tons of money". We all care, we don't want to see more innocent people killed...and we know that these laws are going to do just that. And it's not like departments will be unable to get what they need, not every AR manufacturer has taken such a stand (...yet?). Compound that with the shrinking budgets the politicians are allocating to the departments and you have a surplus of hardware to spread among the reduced number of officers. Bottom line is there are a lot of ways for the LEOs to still get what they need. By doing what these companies are doing, they are giving the departments a big hammer to beat the politicians over the head with (so you could say they have increased the LEOs arsenal of tools).

I personally think Ronnie Barrett hit the nail on the head here:
Quote:
Elected state officials of New York, having been sworn to protect our Constitution, have instead committed an offense against it and their citizens by stripping inalienable rights duly protected and guaranteed under the Second Amendment. By their deliberate and sinister actions, these officials now cause their state and local policing agencies to enforce these unconstitutional and illegal so called “laws”.

By current law, Barrett cannot be an accomplice with any lawbreaker, therefore, cannot and will not service or sell to New York government agencies. Barrett also applies this stance to the individual elected official who, as a matter of public record, has voted for or created regulation that violates the constitutional rights of their citizens. This is an expansion of our 2002 ban against the California government due to their second amendment infringements, and shall apply to any future violators.
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Last edited by dosei; 02-21-2013 at 15:14..
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:25   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiremanMike View Post
When **** is going really bad at your house, and you need the cops to come in a hurry and fix things, companies are now creating a risk that these cops will be under gunned to mitigate the worst day of your life. These companies are opting to cease these sales regardless of whether or not LE exemptions exist.

Dig?
If things are going bad enough at my place that the police need to respond with AR-15's, they will be arriving after the fight is over. 911 is what you dial when it is safe to do so.

Things would be much better handled if I had what I have now. I don't own an AR-15, the bullets those things shoot are dinky, and not good for feral hogs. AR-10's turn cover into concealment.


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Old 02-21-2013, 15:26   #360
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Some folks have a hard time remembering how, during the "Assault Weapons Ban era" "The police" came to the defense of the rights of citizens to have the same high capacity magazines that they, the cops had, marked "LE only"

Perhaps someone could reassure the non-leo's here by showing the efforts of the Law Enforcement agencies to restore the right to the common citizens.

I am sure once the non-cops see that law enforcement officers were campaigning against that ban and how they played such great part in allowing it to "sunset" the fears of the Citizens/Civilians/Non-LEOs will be put to rest. They just need to be shown that it doesn't have to "hurt" LEOs individually before they stand up for the rights of other gun owners.

Should be easy to look up the evidence from the AWB era to reassure the crowd.

Last edited by countrygun; 02-21-2013 at 16:23..
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Old 02-21-2013, 15:35   #361
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Originally Posted by Mayhem like Me View Post
In response to your position... flawed and hypocritical as it is.
Flawed and hypocritical? Supporting the Constitution? Guilty as slandered..........

Care to repeat your question? With all the crap you have spewed, I don't recall one being asked.
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Old 02-21-2013, 16:13   #362
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
I can see the logic here. In New York, the wonderfully intelligent legislators forgot to include an exemption for present and RETIRED police officers. Now, I can't go around shooting tanks, machine guns and AT4's now that I'm retired from the Army, and the civilian rules apply to me now too. I think that should be the same for retired law enforcement. The "Some animals are more equal than others" rules need to go.

Where the logic comes in is when the law enforcement community found out that they would have to suffer the same restrictions as the poor peasants, they rebelled, and the got legislators attention fast. Ding, there's an idea.

So, since they have pull, and many big city police organizations support gun/magazine/ammo control, they should get some too. I personally support magazine manufacturers not selling to any government employee or entity in a state with magazine restrictions, any magazine that does not comply. I support firearms manufacturers not selling to any government employee or entity in a state with an assault weapons ban, any weapon that might be considered an assault weapon in that state. I support ammunition manufacturers not selling to any government employee or entity within a state any ammunition (JHP, Other expanding etc.) that is not legally ownable by the citizens in that state.

Those manufacturers should cancel all current orders for any government employee or entity within those states and offer the civilians one of three options.

1. Complete the order with shipping to an alternate out of state address.
2. Cancel the order at no charge.
3. Hold the order for 6 months upon request of the customer while they relocate their home to a 2nd Amendment Friendly state.



Honestly, if all I need is Joe Biden's double barrel shotgun, then that's all the police need too.

If the police and other government employees and entities believe this is unbearable, maybe they will get off their backsides and start lobbying for the regular citizens too. If not, there are plenty of double barrel shotguns still available on gunbroker.com.


For full disclosure, I am a government employee. Of course I live in Texas......

Cop Talk
This is all that need be said. End of thread

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

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Old 02-21-2013, 16:13   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Some folks have a hard time remembering how, during the "Assault Weapons Band era" "The police" came to the defense of the rights of citizens to have the same high capacity magazines that they, the cops had, marked "LE only"

Perhaps someone could reassure the non-leo's here by showing the efforts of the Law Enforcement agencies to restore the right to the common citizens.

I am sure once the non-cops see that law enforcement officers were campaigning against that ban and how they played such great part in allowing it to "sunset" the fears of the Citizens/Civilians/Non-LEOs will be put to rest. They just need to be shown that it doesn't have to "hurt" LEOs individually before they stand up for the rights of other gun owners.

Should be easy to look up the evidence from the AWB era to reassure the crowd.




Just because that deserves to be on the "active page" until it gets a response.


Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 02-21-2013 at 16:23..
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Old 02-21-2013, 16:19   #364
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Just because that deserves to be on the "active page" until it gets a response.

Hey, I tried to correct the typos but I got a "Server busy" message. That is embarrassing as it is.
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Old 02-21-2013, 16:24   #365
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Hey, I tried to correct the typos but I got a "Server busy" message. That is embarrassing as it is.
New and improved version in use now.


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Old 02-21-2013, 16:25   #366
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Originally Posted by shootalot523 View Post
By the time police arrive to a violent crime, it's typically too late (not there fault) just not enough police to cover many cities and rural areas. That is why we shouldn't be limited to 7 round mags and not be able to own other weapons that we could use god forbid we are in a violent situation.
I really don't thing you're going to find a cop on here that disagrees with you.

I don't know of a single cop where I work who supports such of ban, and I work at a large municipal Police Department.


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Old 02-21-2013, 16:33   #367
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Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
I really don't thing you're going to find a cop on here that disagrees with you.

I don't know of a single cop where I work who supports such of ban, and I work at a large municipal Police Department.


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....in Texas.




So let companies impose the same restrictions on all customers from restrictive states. All animals are created equal.....

I've started adding gun and ammunition manufacturers to my daily email campaign. Join us. You'll be welcomed.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 02-21-2013 at 16:35..
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Old 02-21-2013, 16:49   #368
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Big cities runs states. Big states/money/mouths run the country.

Police Admin are a driving force for any big city. The push for law changes.

They want gun control, they get it.

As a citizen and as an officer you do a few things. Gripe about it like a baby, or stand up and band together with fellow officers and let your voice be heard loud and clear.

See liberals are good at this and as a minority get a lot of change done.

Be quite about it and you might as well learn to deal with laws and rules as they get put out to you.
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Old 02-21-2013, 16:50   #369
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Just because that deserves to be on the "active page" until it gets a response.

I used to have a copy of a poll from the early 2000's that showed rank and file cops having an OVERWHELMING opposition to the AWB ban and mag restrictions.

I wish I had it to show you now. I found this for you instead.

http://www.guncite.com/aswpolice.html

http://m.policemag.com/blogpost/1391...ult-weapon-ban

http://m.myfoxal.com/autojuice?targe...an-weapons-ban

http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/04/fo...t-weapons-ban/

http://www.mintpress.net/opposition-...w-enforcement/

The Internet wasn't such a big thing back in the early '90's, and social media was nonexistent, so it's kinda hard to dig up what's being asked for.

There are plenty of cops making noise now. You just have to be willing to pay attention.



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Old 02-21-2013, 16:52   #370
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....in Texas.




So let companies impose the same restrictions on all customers from restrictive states. All animals are created equal.....

I've started adding gun and ammunition manufacturers to my daily email campaign. Join us. You'll be welcomed.
So, you would coincide that you can't group all segments of a certain group into one lump?


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Old 02-21-2013, 16:58   #371
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Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
So, you would coincide that you can't group all segments of a certain group into one lump?


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Any chance you could restate that thought in a coherent way?

I have no idea what you are trying to say.
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Old 02-21-2013, 16:59   #372
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I can see the logic here. In New York, the wonderfully intelligent legislators forgot to include an exemption for present and RETIRED police officers. Now, I can't go around shooting tanks, machine guns and AT4's now that I'm retired from the Army, and the civilian rules apply to me now too. I think that should be the same for retired law enforcement. The "Some animals are more equal than others" rules need to go.
So you see no difference in the risk factors for retired military and retired law enforcement?
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Old 02-21-2013, 17:05   #373
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Any chance you could restate that thought in a coherent way?

I have no idea what you are trying to say.
You quoted me, after I mentioned how I don't know any cops who support a ban, and pointed out that I'm in Texas.

That leads me to assume you view cops from different parts of the country differently.




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Old 02-21-2013, 17:15   #374
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So you see no difference in the risk factors for retired military and retired law enforcement?
All due respect here, how many cases are documented of someone from a retired officer's past confronting attempting to kill said retired officer? In how many of those cases would the capacity of the retired officer's firearm have been a factor?

I am just trying to politely ask the questions that some may not ask so politely, but that many are curious about so we can get realistic answers.
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Old 02-21-2013, 17:16   #375
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I used to have a copy of a poll from the early 2000's that showed rank and file cops having an OVERWHELMING opposition to the AWB ban and mag restrictions.

I wish I had it to show you now. I found this for you instead.
Some material from some right thinking sheriffs in the buckeye state:
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8781
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