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Old 03-01-2013, 11:00   #51
Roach1
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In think it is always easy to state, "shoot here, shoot there. Fill them with lead till they stop" Especially from people that have not consistently trained high stress defense.
Its easy to say but unless you train very frequently, it will not always go as planned.
What do you think the percentage of gun owners is that train at least weekly for high stress situations? Beats me but I bet I am safe in saying very few.
this is the reason we hear stories like this. He shot. froze. tunnel vision. Delayed. Unsure. ect ect.
Responsible gun owners should train!!! Over and over.
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Old 03-06-2013, 17:21   #52
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Back in the 80's an SAS team tracked down and executed a scumbag IRA bomber.

The scumbag was hit something like 27 times. During the enquirey, the shooter was asked why he shot the scumbag 27 times - his reply? "because I ran out of bullets"
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Old 03-06-2013, 18:24   #53
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Gun shots probably feel like punches.
It won't stop someone determined.
Not unless you hit the spinal cord or brain .


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Old 03-06-2013, 18:29   #54
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That's why a 12 gauge with #2's or larger is better. Why use a pea shooter when a howitzer is available?
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Old 03-07-2013, 13:05   #55
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Originally Posted by G27GenFour View Post
Wow... A .40 caliber gun, by the way.Toxicology reports are not in yet, I hear. Wow.
That's why my HD weapon of choice is AR15 and Saiga12.
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Old 03-07-2013, 13:53   #56
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I have to ask but why the FMJ outside?
I only use FMJ's at the range but always carry loaded with HP's.
If the HPs prematurely expand, you could get the 1" of penetration that SevenSixtyTwo linked to, I believe. My HD magazines alternate between HP and FMJ - could be wrong, but sounds good in my head.
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Old 03-07-2013, 14:15   #57
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People do not react like they do in the movies and from how you told the story home owner do not get good hits on perp
so his markmanship was lacking with hit in the stomach. One perp took 9 hits to the stomach threw the weapon on his truck tolded the deputy he quit and walked over to the ambulance.
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Old 03-07-2013, 14:30   #58
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For home defense like the OP, a short barrel shotgun has to be the most effective weapon. A 12 gauge COM blast would stop most attacks. If necessary, a second blast aimed at the upper body would seal the deal.

While I've read about lots of cases where handgun stopping power wasn't enough, I don't think I've heard of incidents where a shotgun at close quarters failed to get the job done.

I'm with dsa on this one, but I might choose #4 shot.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 03-07-2013 at 14:36..
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Old 03-07-2013, 15:05   #59
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And remember----we don't need more than 10 rounds or 7 if you are in New York.
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Old 03-07-2013, 16:53   #60
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
For home defense like the OP, a short barrel shotgun has to be the most effective weapon. A 12 gauge COM blast would stop most attacks. If necessary, a second blast aimed at the upper body would seal the deal.

While I've read about lots of cases where handgun stopping power wasn't enough, I don't think I've heard of incidents where a shotgun at close quarters failed to get the job done.

I'm with dsa on this one, but I might choose #4 shot.
And according to Mr. Biden, all you have to to is shoot it out the window...
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:44   #61
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I'm a newb here, but a doc in the world. Private practice now but had a lot of trauma training and treated lots of gsw's, stabs and vehicle/blunt stuff.

Handgun rounds aren't reliable instant stoppers. Then again, neither are all rifle hits, but I like my odds with a rifle or buck slug better than a handgun. A direct hit to the left ventricle or aorta may not drop someone for up to 10 seconds- a tough guy with a big knife can do a lot of work in 10 seconds. Shots to the brain are more reliable but hard to pull off under duress. Some train for shots to the face/head precisely because center mass hits aren't as reliable for instant stops, but I don't think such training is realistic for those of us with limited time and resources.

IMO a lot of defensive shooters are afraid to discharge their weapons multiple times for fear of prosecution, and depending on where they live, their fears may be based in fact. Still, the preference of being tried by 12 versus carried by 6 or worse yet, carrying a loved one we failed to protect, needs to be the mindset.

Glad the bad guy was neutralized. Had the bad guy gotten the gun and used it on the homeowner, the leftists would have had a field day.
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:18   #62
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?.... A direct hit to the left ventricle or aorta may not drop someone for up to 10 seconds- a tough guy with a big knife can do a lot of work in 10 seconds.
....
Best to learn from another rather than making a mistake yourself.....

Here's a case where a BG took 5 shots of 357 to his COM, and still manages to get off one shot 22 that hit Trooper Mark Coates in the heart. BG is still alive today. The Trooper video had been used to educate many cadets.
http://www.odmp.org/officer/420-troo...-hunter-coates

In the case of Trayvon Martin, he stopped fighting (according to Z) because he was surprised getting shot, but he seemed to have a few seconds available.

People talk about the 10sec of death as they see it on battlefield. With a weapon, adrenalin, and the final 10 sec, a lot can be done when there's nothing more to lose.


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Old 03-08-2013, 10:11   #63
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Best to learn from another rather than making a mistake yourself.....

Here's a case where a BG took 5 shots of 357 to his COM, and still manages to get off one shot 22 that hit Trooper Mark Coates in the heart. BG is still alive today. The Trooper video had been used to educate many cadets.
http://www.odmp.org/officer/420-troo...-hunter-coates

In the case of Trayvon Martin, he stopped fighting (according to Z) because he was surprised getting shot, but he seemed to have a few seconds available.

People talk about the 10sec of death as they see it on battlefield. With a weapon, adrenalin, and the final 10 sec, a lot can be done when there's nothing more to lose.


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That story about the Trooper is heartbreaking. RIP.
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:28   #64
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
For home defense like the OP, a short barrel shotgun has to be the most effective weapon. A 12 gauge COM blast would stop most attacks. If necessary, a second blast aimed at the upper body would seal the deal.

While I've read about lots of cases where handgun stopping power wasn't enough, I don't think I've heard of incidents where a shotgun at close quarters failed to get the job done.

I'm with dsa on this one, but I might choose #4 shot.
Sure but not everyone uses a shotty well. Most do not have tax stamped shottys and some homes do not work well with a full sized weapon. Also to add, a load of birdshot will fly almost as a single projectile inside a home. Very little spread with most shotguns.

My wife is extremely accurate with an M4 stype AR15 and or a handgun. She uses them well, works with them well under stress and I would never want her to have to deal with the 870.
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Last edited by spcwes; 03-12-2013 at 07:29..
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Old 03-12-2013, 15:53   #65
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That is not even funny.
Here in NY, I agree with you!


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Old 03-12-2013, 16:02   #66
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Hopefully people include reloading their weapon in all of these practice scenarios they endorse. Whether it's 5 or 15, there's a good chance you'll feel the need to use them all.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:12   #67
gentleone
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[After reading all of the responses to this thread,] I wanted to run this idea by you guys....Regarding use of pistols in defense of self or others by those who rarely train (if at all):

Shoot the pelvic area until the 'bad guy' drops, then follow up with shots to the chest/head as necessary.

Or would it be better for them to shoot several shots at COM, and then shoot the pelvic area if the COM shots have no desireable effect?

Thank you in advance for your opinions.

Kevin

Note: post edit in "[]"

Last edited by gentleone; 03-15-2013 at 11:20..
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Old 03-15-2013, 13:57   #68
Riz58
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Originally Posted by green marauder View Post
After reading this Im starting to think leave the gun(s) in the safe and start carrying my Kukri, its got to be hard to keep attacking with limbs missing or bowls hanging down the front of you


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Obviously you have never seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail and the battle with the black knight.
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In self-defense there are three things you cannot use: skills you have not developed, a gun you do not have with you, and ammo that is still in the box.

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Old 03-16-2013, 07:38   #69
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Obviously you have never seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail and the battle with the black knight.
It's just a flesh wound, I've been hurt worse.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:07   #70
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Bullet placement + .45acp = DRT.........IMO.
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