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Old 02-12-2013, 20:43   #201
TX OMFS
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Originally Posted by whoops dude View Post
Some guys here seem to know for a fact that they would be cool, calm and collected after stepping out of a vehicle and looking back to see their dead family member's mangled and broken bodies twisted into the metal.

I for one know that I would lose it and if I smelled alcohol on the person and saw a bottle or a couple cans that that person's time would probably be up.
That may be, and I might do the same thing, but we'd both be guilty of murder.
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Old 02-12-2013, 21:28   #202
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I didn't realize we were speaking about averages. You talked about somebody from new york city moving to texas and having the same mindset of somebody from Texas. By that, the likelihood is 100%. You will absolutely find a New Yorker with that kind of mindset. If we are talking about averages or typical new yorkers, that's a different story. However, New York is a huge place with a lot of people. We have the entire cross section of society here.
I'm a frequent visitor to New York and my daughter moved there for business opportunities after graduating from Harvard Business School (along with about 60% of her graduating class)...so I have at least a vestigial familiarity with the city - that's a component of why I questioned your generalization.

I disagree also with your claim of a 100% correlation in New Yorkers moving to Texas becoming assimilated and adopting the views of their neighbors. The greater probability is that if they were social liberals before, they would remain so after moving to Texas. It's a generally accepted psychological precept that that which is learned first is learned best.

I would offer myself up as an example - though I have lived among Marxists for a dozen years - I remain an ultra right-wing militant extremist!

ETA: Where are you going to med school? I have a friend who graduated from New York's Albert Einstein School of Medicine and it was three years of combat for her - she barely had time to bathe and eat (sleep was out of the question) - she surely didn't have any time for social interneting.
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Old 02-12-2013, 21:57   #203
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Sorry about his kids. He should have taken better safety precautions.

He is guilty of murder. Clear as day.
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Old 02-13-2013, 00:23   #204
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Tragic from every direction. Unless you are in a persons shoes its awfully hard. I can imagine the state of my mind certainly wouldnt be rational or sane in that situation. However at 20 years old, living with the kind of guilt associated with killing those youngsters after getting behind the wheel would have been tough too. Probably better off dead.

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Old 02-13-2013, 01:57   #205
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Originally Posted by Detectorist View Post
Sorry about his kids. He should have taken better safety precautions.

He is guilty of murder. Clear as day.
Sorry to pick on you, Detectorist, but that is a dick ass comment really.

He should have taken better safety precautions? Really? What a punk ass cop out to blame the victim. Why can't two able bodied kids help push a truck off the road? WTH?

Blame the drunk. He bears total responsibility, and got what he deserved. If I saw a drunk run over two of my boys (I have three), all bets are off. And yes, I have a gun on my waist. But justice would probably be served. And I probably wouldn't wait for years for the judicial system and his lawyers to coddle him.

For anyone in this thread blaming the victim, you're losers. Yeah, he might do jail time, but I bet he sleeps well, knowing he did the right thing.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:07   #206
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send him away for 35 to life.

Playing judge, jury, and executioner; and depriving someone of due process doesn't score high marks in my books.
Sometimes, Justice needs to be done. Nobody really gives a rat's ass about your books.

You kill my kids, you're going down. It is really pretty simple.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:39   #207
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Originally Posted by Detectorist View Post
He is guilty of murder. Clear as day.
That'll be up to the jury, if it goes that far. No disrespect to you, but I doubt it will.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:58   #208
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All a defense attorney has to do is show the grisly pictures of the dead kids and ask, “Was shooting the drunk the act of a reasonable man?”

It will end up a hung jury just like GT; a good representation of America.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:21   #209
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Blaming the kids' father is bull****. At a .175 it could have been broad frickin daylight and the kids could have been wearing strobe lights and he'd still have run into them. I work in LE and its truly scary how many people I see on their 3rd, 4th, 5+ DWI convictions! Give them enough tries and they'll kill someone sooner or later, and our CJ system seems to be willing to give them as many tries as it takes!

Its sad all the way around but if I was on that jury I wouldn't convict. I don't condone the shooter's actions but I sure as hell understand them.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:48   #210
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Originally Posted by SFF900 View Post
Blaming the kids' father is bull****. At a .175 it could have been broad frickin daylight and the kids could have been wearing strobe lights and he'd still have run into them. I work in LE and its truly scary how many people I see on their 3rd, 4th, 5+ DWI convictions! Give them enough tries and they'll kill someone sooner or later, and our CJ system seems to be willing to give them as many tries as it takes!

Its sad all the way around but if I was on that jury I wouldn't convict. I don't condone the shooter's actions but I sure as hell understand them.

You are a serious threat to the fabric of our society, being in LE and having that mindset.

What do you want, to have drunken drivers become an endangered species?


(note dripping sarcasm )
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:26   #211
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Originally Posted by SFF900 View Post
Blaming the kids' father is bull****. At a .175 it could have been broad frickin daylight and the kids could have been wearing strobe lights and he'd still have run into them. I work in LE and its truly scary how many people I see on their 3rd, 4th, 5+ DWI convictions! Give them enough tries and they'll kill someone sooner or later, and our CJ system seems to be willing to give them as many tries as it takes!

Its sad all the way around but if I was on that jury I wouldn't convict. I don't condone the shooter's actions but I sure as hell understand them.
Yep....I was on a Jury where the guy had 5 DUI's and no drivers license and no insurance and no registration for the car. What a POS and was lucky not to kill anyone this time. He went away for quite a while and I'm sure he's out there again already.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:45   #212
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Originally Posted by Flying-Dutchman View Post

All a defense attorney has to do is show the grisly pictures of the dead kids and ask, “Was shooting the drunk the act of a reasonable man?”


It will end up a hung jury just like GT; a good representation of America.
Everything on GT is a hung jury.


I am still not 100% sure the defence can bring up fact the driver was drunk.

It is highly prejudicial (heard that on the TV show "Law & Order" )

If the father knew he was drunk then I would say YES they can use it.

If father did not know - would the judge allow it into evidence?

If the father claims he was so messed up he didn't know what he was doing when he shot the guy- but was able to clearly see the guy was drunk - and had the ability to hide the gun so he wouldn't get caught with it - they are opening up a can of worms.


In a twist - hiding the gun hurts his case. Would have been better if he would have beaten him to death with his fists.

Father is still claiming he doesn't recall going home to get the gun or shooting anyone -



You also must account for a fact - many people have driven after having a few drinks - many people have kids they know will drive after a few drinks.

Does a jury give a green light to roadside justice?

Last edited by Z71bill; 02-13-2013 at 07:59..
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:22   #213
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I'm a frequent visitor to New York and my daughter moved there for business opportunities after graduating from Harvard Business School (along with about 60% of her graduating class)...so I have at least a vestigial familiarity with the city - that's a component of why I questioned your generalization.

I disagree also with your claim of a 100% correlation in New Yorkers moving to Texas becoming assimilated and adopting the views of their neighbors. The greater probability is that if they were social liberals before, they would remain so after moving to Texas. It's a generally accepted psychological precept that that which is learned first is learned best.

I would offer myself up as an example - though I have lived among Marxists for a dozen years - I remain an ultra right-wing militant extremist!

ETA: Where are you going to med school? I have a friend who graduated from New York's Albert Einstein School of Medicine and it was three years of combat for her - she barely had time to bathe and eat (sleep was out of the question) - she surely didn't have any time for social interneting.
If this was the case with her, she did not study efficiently. In my first 2 years, other than studying for boards late in my 2nd year, I had quite a bit of free time, compared to some of my classmates. Of course I rarely went to class and could study the majority of the day, instead of wasting my time listening to lectures. I certainly had the time to maintain some sort of social life. I did very well in school and scored well above average on the national board exams. Let's just say that my scores enable me to apply to the most competitive residency programs. Currently I'm on rotations, and some are easier than others. I had 2 months of surgery where I would leave at 3 am, and not leave the hospital until 7 pm. That's as far as I'm willing to go in a public forum, if you're still curious, please pm me.

Also, all of these posts were typed from my phone when I had some downtime from rotation.

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Old 02-13-2013, 08:39   #214
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I don't believe we elect judges.
We do in FL.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:55   #215
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The details aren't entirely clear to me, but it is my assumption that he didn't even know the guy was drunk. That was determined later. Unless he saw all the empty containers in the car or something, I just don't know.

It is certainly a tragic event, but I do believe he is guilty of 2nd degree murder. He might be able to plea-bargain that down to a lesser charge.

The drunk driver got exactly what he deserved, that is not the issue for me. My problem is the fact this guy just dispensed his own justice on the scene before he even knew what was going on. It could have been a legitimate accident, medical problem, something beyond his control could have affected his driving. This guy apparently didn't wait to find out, he just shot the guilty driver in the head.

I could only imagine what the father was going through, it is a horrible thing. My sympathies lie with him, but I just don't think he should have the right to shoot somebody like that and walk.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:47   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisville Glocker View Post
Sorry to pick on you, Detectorist, but that is a dick ass comment really.

He should have taken better safety precautions? Really? What a punk ass cop out to blame the victim. Why can't two able bodied kids help push a truck off the road? WTH?

Blame the drunk. He bears total responsibility, and got what he deserved. If I saw a drunk run over two of my boys (I have three), all bets are off. And yes, I have a gun on my waist. But justice would probably be served. And I probably wouldn't wait for years for the judicial system and his lawyers to coddle him.

For anyone in this thread blaming the victim, you're losers. Yeah, he might do jail time, but I bet he sleeps well, knowing he did the right thing.

Sorry but your wrong.

There are entirely too many incidents of sober drivers killing people on the road under those circumstances for the father to be completely blame free.

Also, it's entirely likely the vehicle broke down for reasons of operator/maintainer error.

If you put your kids out on a dark road pushing a disabled vehicle, you are setting the stage for tragedy. If they were only a few blocks from home, returning to the vehicle during daylight would have been a much more sensible option.


While he's only legally guilty of murder, he most definitely shares some of the responsibility for his kids being on that road.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:52   #217
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So am I right to understand that this shooting was not in self-defense? While I feel for him and for his loss, his actions were absolutely inappropriate and unjustified under the law. Keep in mind that our legal system isn't based on whether the drunk driver deserved it, the decision to charge the shooter is based on whether the shooter broke the law. In this case, he is not going to walk. Having said that, I am glad I'm not going to be sitting on his jury because I would hate to have to convict him.
Temporary insanity due to extreme emotional trauma
as well as physical. Hope his attorney is a good one.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:04   #218
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Temporary insanity due to extreme emotional trauma
as well as physical. Hope his attorney is a good one.
Dano
See Anatomy of a Murder.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:17   #219
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Temporary insanity due to extreme emotional trauma
as well as physical. Hope his attorney is a good one.
Dano
I hope he goes to prison for a long term.

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Old 02-13-2013, 10:52   #220
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I hope he goes to prison for a long term.

ARS

He is already in prison.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:53   #221
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I can dig it. Drunk driving is premeditated murder as far as I'm concerned.

You know that when you operate your car while impaired that you'd run the risk of running over something or someone, yet you take the chance anyway. If that's not premeditation then I don't know what is.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:20   #222
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Sometimes, Justice needs to be done. Nobody really gives a rat's ass about your books.

You kill my kids, you're going down. It is really pretty simple.
Justice is not left for the random person to dispense.

If someone kills your kids and you decide to do justice on the side of a road; do not expect sympathy, leniency, or a free pass.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:26   #223
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If you want a response you're going to have to be more articulate. What do you mean by this comment?

Are you suggesting that someone from say, New York City, who moved to Texas as an adult would have the same views as someone born and raised in Texas?
it was pretty articulate, your assertion was asinine.


I was born in SC but lived in TX from 2-25 years of age, was I a Texan then?
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:27   #224
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...

If someone kills your kids and you decide to do justice on the side of a road; do not expect sympathy, leniency, or a free pass.

That is exactly what we are saying.

If someone is drunk and kills your kids, and you decide to "do justice" on the side of the road - or as he/she is walking to booking, or at trial, don't EXPECT a free pass, or leniency,

but you can damn well be certain if I am on that jury, given the circumstances of THIS CASE, it is exactly what is going to happen.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:37   #225
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Chance jury is never told the driver was drunk.

So then it is -

Father had kids push broken down truck - in the dark

Car hits and kills them

father walks home - gets gun comes back & shoots driver.

This adds up to some prison time for the father.

It sucks to have your kids killed - it sucks worse to spend a few years in prison knowing your family is on their own.
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