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Old 02-12-2013, 11:46   #176
napp32
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Originally Posted by Kevinr20 View Post
He killed him out of rage. He didn't know if the guy had a heart attack or passed out from diabetes. It wasn't determined he was intoxicated until after he was dead. I can understand wanting to hurt someone who just killed your family but what if it truly was an accident due to a medical condition or something else.

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Exactly. The shooter needs to join his children.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:57   #177
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Old 02-12-2013, 13:15   #178
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I'd tend to my family.

If the other guy tried to leave I'd try to get a license plate or something but I don't think I'd be paying much attention as I'd be focused on my family.

If the other guys touches me he'd be looking down the barrel of my G27. I wouldn't shoot unless assaulted but I wouldn't be in the mood to do a lot of talking.
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Old 02-12-2013, 13:52   #179
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He killed him out of rage. He didn't know if the guy had a heart attack or passed out from diabetes. It wasn't determined he was intoxicated until after he was dead. I can understand wanting to hurt someone who just killed your family but what if it truly was an accident due to a medical condition or something else.
Medical condition or not, diving intoxicated still is not legal because of the dangers of these sorts of lethal accidents. If he had a medical condition that causes blackouts or sudden passing out, again, he shouldn't be on the road. I know in Oregon, your license is revoked if that's the case.
Mind you, I'm not justifying the father's actions but given those circumstances and myself being in that situation, I feel I would end the driver's at faults life. My concern would still lie with my children however.
I've lost a child and watch him in the hospital dying in front of me in my wife's arms with the doctor on call saying there was nothing he could do. I'm a firm believer that because of that experience I would still be in utter disbelief and try to have my then dead children miraculously brought back.
I don't know and hopefully won't know how I would react, but I do know that wonderful (sarcasm in that one word) person would have to fear not only the justice of the courts but also a now mentally unstable man (I don't own a gun yet) finding himself with alot of free time on his hands to stew on this past transgression.
It's all highly speculative and I'm sure everyone and their mothers have their own strong opinions, but having already lost a child changed my perspective greatly.



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Old 02-12-2013, 14:29   #180
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Old 02-12-2013, 15:59   #181
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Are you suggesting that someone from say, New York City, who moved to Texas as an adult would have the same views as someone born and raised in Texas?
One would most certainly hope not. HH
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Old 02-12-2013, 16:39   #182
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This is not a matter of law, or right, or what you believe. This is the story of human nature. Your beliefs, the law, religion.... wont stop it. Never have. It was a man that made his choice. Debate all you will. Talk about it all you will. Every man makes his choices. The way of every man is right in his own eyes.
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Old 02-12-2013, 16:40   #183
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Are you suggesting that someone from say, New York City, who moved to Texas as an adult would have the same views as someone born and raised in Texas?
Why not? This is a city of about 8.5 million people, and I have met quite a few gun owners here that certainly don't seem like they fit in with what we believe NYC to be. But of course, not everyone here is a flaming liberal, there are just more of them.
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Old 02-12-2013, 16:43   #184
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I completely agree with you. My only point is that in this case, the only person who will stand trial is the shooter. And since his shooting was not legally justified, he is probably not going to walk.
Probably not, given where he was at (geographically). The problem the prosecution is going to have, is they are not going to find a jury that is sympathetic with a drunk driver that murders children.
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Old 02-12-2013, 16:46   #185
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5 tons? Was the drunk in the cab of a big rig?

On a serious not though this who situation is full of fail. If he waled to his nearby home to retrieve a gun, I can understand due to the close proximity why they tried to push the vehicle rather than calling for a tow truck. However, at nearly midnight is not the time to be pushing a vehicle on a roadway. They should have left it on the shoulder, all walked home, and dealt with it in the morning.

The drunk on the other hand should have never been intoxicated in the first place being underage, much less getting behind the wheel in that condition. That being said, the father is still accountable for what he did which if how the article reads is accurate (which it very well may not be) is go home to retrieve the gun that he used to kill the drunk driver.

I really hope this guy gets a lawyer that can make a temporary insanity plea stick, however it doesn't look good as it appears that he went home for the gun giving him time to think his actions through. If he was carrying, getting that plea to hold water would be much easier.

Either way you look at it, the entire situation is a tragedy.
It is a tragedy. It certainly is no casue for celebration.
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Old 02-12-2013, 16:48   #186
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Old 02-12-2013, 16:50   #187
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Most people would have a hard time determining whether someone is drunk or in a diabetic coma. BTW, their breath smells about the same.



That's actually a pretty good comaprison in that the old lady should have known she wasn't fit to drive in the same way a drunk should know they aren't fit to drive.

It was murder. May have been more justifiable if he didn't go home to get the gun or if he waited until there was proof the guy was drunk. Even so, it would have been murder.

Most reasonable people can tell the difference. I have seen both.
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Old 02-12-2013, 16:52   #188
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..................

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Old 02-12-2013, 17:21   #189
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From the info in article. HE left scene, went home, got gun, came back and committed FIRST DEGREE, PREMEDITADED MURDER.
I feel bad for his loss. If he had beat up the driver I could see him getting a pass. Acting in momentary anger/loss would be one thing.
Unless other info. If I was on jury I would (likely) vote guilty on manslaghter. (most likely charge)
You are right. However had it been me in the Fathers shoes I would also execute the scum that killed my sons, do the time and be off with it.

If it happened a second time around rest assured another driver would get shot. No remorse here whatsoever.
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Old 02-12-2013, 17:23   #190
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send him away for 35 to life.

Playing judge, jury, and executioner; and depriving someone of due process doesn't score high marks in my books.
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Old 02-12-2013, 17:42   #191
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I'm not thinking I could convict.
i know i couldn't.
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Old 02-12-2013, 17:45   #192
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Some guys here seem to know for a fact that they would be cool, calm and collected after stepping out of a vehicle and looking back to see their dead family member's mangled and broken bodies twisted into the metal.

I for one know that I would lose it and if I smelled alcohol on the person and saw a bottle or a couple cans that that person's time would probably be up.
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:02   #193
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:21   #194
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Some guys here seem to know for a fact that they would be cool, calm and collected after stepping out of a vehicle and looking back to see their dead family member's mangled and broken bodies twisted into the metal.

I for one know that I would lose it and if I smelled alcohol on the person and saw a bottle or a couple cans that that person's time would probably be up.
And other guys are claiming that they would absolutely do the same thing in the same situation. That would be guys who are currently cool, calm, and collected, sitting at their keyboards and claiming that they would in fact murder the drunk driver. My problem isn't necessarily with what the guy did, although it was inappropriate and uncalled for. Given that he actually went home, got his gun, came back and shot the guy, he is going to have a tough time proving that he lost control. No, my problem is that we have people here of sound mind claiming that they would do the same thing.
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:49   #195
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I don't believe we elect judges.
in some states, judges are elected.
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Old 02-12-2013, 19:56   #196
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And other guys are claiming that they would absolutely do the same thing in the same situation. That would be guys who are currently cool, calm, and collected, sitting at their keyboards and claiming that they would in fact murder the drunk driver. My problem isn't necessarily with what the guy did, although it was inappropriate and uncalled for. Given that he actually went home, got his gun, came back and shot the guy, he is going to have a tough time proving that he lost control. No, my problem is that we have people here of sound mind claiming that they would do the same thing.
Truth is, sitting calmly at a keyboard you can't be 100% sure what you would do. Even the ones who think they would do the same.

If he was the shooter, he screwed up. He still has a wife and child that depend on him. Now he will likely be gone. Who will provide for them now? We need to learn more. This may not have been his first rodeo, so to speak.
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Old 02-12-2013, 20:32   #197
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Why not? This is a city of about 8.5 million people, and I have met quite a few gun owners here that certainly don't seem like they fit in with what we believe NYC to be. But of course, not everyone here is a flaming liberal, there are just more of them.
Would you care to assign a likelihood to your assertion? It seems a gross assumption to declare that the belief system of the typical New Yorker mirrors that of the typical Texan.

In science, as you know, we deal with statistical probabilities for outcomes - not outliers (Malcolm Gladwell excepted).
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Old 02-12-2013, 20:34   #198
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Most reasonable people can tell the difference. I have seen both.
As a physician I dare say I've seen more.

PS - the guy in your avatar wouldn't have shot the drunk man
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Old 02-12-2013, 20:38   #199
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If I was that father I would not have used a gun.
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Old 02-12-2013, 20:38   #200
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Would you care to assign a likelihood to your assertion? It seems a gross assumption to declare that the belief system of the typical New Yorker mirrors that of the typical Texan.

In science, as you know, we deal with statistical probabilities for outcomes - not outliers (Malcolm Gladwell excepted).
I didn't realize we were speaking about averages. You talked about somebody from new york city moving to texas and having the same mindset of somebody from Texas. By that, the likelihood is 100%. You will absolutely find a New Yorker with that kind of mindset. If we are talking about averages or typical new yorkers, that's a different story. However, New York is a huge place with a lot of people. We have the entire cross section of society here.

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