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Old 02-12-2013, 09:34   #151
Gallium
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Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
This --

Then

After the fact - next day - next week - next year -

You don't go kill the driver because - you going to jail is not going to help your family (the living or dead - but mainly thinking of the living).

Any man - father - husband - worth $.01 would rather be around to help his wife and kids cope with the loss - not be away serving X years in prison.
Maybe the drunk driver is gonna try and finish me and the rest of my family next month when he gets out of jail?
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:42   #152
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So am I right to understand that this shooting was not in self-defense? While I feel for him and for his loss, his actions were absolutely inappropriate and unjustified under the law. Keep in mind that our legal system isn't based on whether the drunk driver deserved it, the decision to charge the shooter is based on whether the shooter broke the law. In this case, he is not going to walk. Having said that, I am glad I'm not going to be sitting on his jury because I would hate to have to convict him.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:45   #153
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Six pages of comments and it isn't very hard to understand why the last election went the way it did.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:47   #154
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While I do know that trying to run somebody over is reason to be shot, nobody here knows how it went down exactly.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:50   #155
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Six pages of comments and it isn't very hard to understand why the last election went the way it did.
Do you mean the large number of folks that let their emotions control them?
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:54   #156
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
You can't tell when somebody is drunk? Most people can.
Most people would have a hard time determining whether someone is drunk or in a diabetic coma. BTW, their breath smells about the same.

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Can I shoot the little old lady who runs down any member of my family?
That's actually a pretty good comaprison in that the old lady should have known she wasn't fit to drive in the same way a drunk should know they aren't fit to drive.

It was murder. May have been more justifiable if he didn't go home to get the gun or if he waited until there was proof the guy was drunk. Even so, it would have been murder.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:04   #157
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I would be so focused on my family and their immediate health that I wouldn't even concern myself with him as long as he was still in the car. If he tried to get out and run away I would slam his ass into the ground and hold him until the cops came, but if he didn't move then he wouldn't get a second look from me. If I have enough cognitive function to scan the area and determine that he is a drunk, then my brain is working enough to know I need to help my family. Family safety = priority #1.
I have to agree 100% here. My families condition is priority number one. The other driver's condition is a far distant second to that unless he/she is trying to flee the scene.

Jury selection will be a pain no doubt as parents/grandparents will sympathize with the father and nobody is going to sympathize with a drunk driver who just killed two kids. Plus factor in that a gun was used to kill the guy. With the heated issues going on right now that will be a focal point as well even though it wouldn't have made a difference whether he grabbed the tire iron out of his truck and beat the guy to death with it instead. Truthfully I think the only hope of getting a conviction rather than a hung jury is if they can manage to find 12 people that will keep emotion out of it and will strictly base their decision on whether or not what the guy did was a justifiable homicide. Odds of that, just about 0. The topics involved are just far too emotional to get a group of completely unbiased jurors from the jury pool. The DA will probably just try to get this guy to agree to a plea bargain rather than letting it go to trial.

Again, no matter how you look at it, the entire thing is an absolute tragedy for all parties involved.

Last edited by Roger1079; 02-12-2013 at 10:07..
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:05   #158
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Well, he sure as heck murdered that guy. I think that what happened to his sons should come in as a mitigation factor at sentencing, but does not really have a whole lot to do with whether or not he left the scene, went to his house, got a gun, then shot the driver. Sure, it deals with his state of mind, whether he did it knowingly or with malice aforethought or if he was temporarily insante. Who in the world has an 11 and 12 year old out on the road pushing a truck at night? This is really weird. Were the taillights illuminated on the shooter's truck? 0.17 is high, but no crazy high as far as BAC. Back in the day, the legal limit in many, if not most states was 0.15. I don't think the driver was black-out drunk unless he was not a drinker.

I would convict the guy, and I do a fair amount of criminal defense work. You don't get to that sort of thing here. We don't live in Yemen.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:06   #159
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Originally Posted by Beware Owner View Post
While I do know that trying to run somebody over is reason to be shot, nobody here knows how it went down exactly.

I totally agree…too many variables to make an informed decision.
I believe there are two issues here, how do you “Feel” about the father shooting the drunk who killed his kids, and the frame of mind of the father as he went to retrieve his weapon.

One is a moral issue/dilemma and the other is the diminished mental capacity of the father. Maybe, just maybe as some have mentioned before the father made a poor decision, and that also contributed to his anguish… i.e. “I wish I would have waited till the morning”. Far too many details we just don’t know. Why is the gun missing? Did the driver get out of his vehicle and panicked and started the OMG OMG!!! We’ll never know until trial.

What makes this a good discussion, is, rest assured the jury will be having this same discussion once in deliberation. Based on the Texas statute (cited earlier) along with the discussion of the mens rae, I believe there will some sort of punishment, but possibly not as harsh as manslaughter.

Last edited by mtbinva; 02-12-2013 at 10:06..
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:13   #160
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Originally Posted by gjk5 View Post
oh jesus, give me a break
If you want a response you're going to have to be more articulate. What do you mean by this comment?

Are you suggesting that someone from say, New York City, who moved to Texas as an adult would have the same views as someone born and raised in Texas?
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:18   #161
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Isn't the missing gun a key point?

If a person is really of diminished capacity - to the point they walk home - get gun - walk back - shoot person - without really understanding their actions.

Do they have the mental state to - hide the gun?

Seems like hiding gun so you don't get caught with it and not knowing what you just did is illegal - is not reasonable.




Last edited by Z71bill; 02-12-2013 at 10:24..
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:20   #162
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Hopefully the jury will at least take long enough to drink a cup of coffee before returning a verdict of "Not Guilty."
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:23   #163
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Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
So in your mind, saying that "drink drivers deserve roadside executions" is somehow not equivalent to it being OK to kill drunks on the side of the road? And considering that you are vehemently defending what the shooter did, which is exactly that. OK buddy, keep convincing yourself that you're right, but most people know better. Considering the fact that English is my 2nd language, it would seem that my ability to parse and understand it is better than yours. In the context of what you're saying and what you're defending, there can be no other conclusion.

Well Sputnik, you know the beautiful idiom we have about opinions...

I have said if the shooter was in court and I was on the jury, I am not voting to convict if the facts are as they have been loosely presented here.

I also think that people who put their hands on bibles and swear to defend and uphold the constitution, but blatantly disregard this oath have lied under oath, and that there should be some criminal penalty for that...but you don't see me advocating that any of them be arrested.

What has happened here is you have backed yourself into a corner with your opinion, your belief, what you think...and you are trying to transmogrify my statements to fit the mold of what you think I am saying.

My recommendation to you is to be more careful and deliberate in what you are reading.

And yeah, if the dad was in front of me I'm not going to shake his hand, pat him on the back, carry him on my shoulders or give him an attaboy. Like I said, he has to live with taking someone else's life, and the loss of life of his two sons. But so help me, were I on a jury, with these facts, I am not convicting. He has been punished enough for his transgressions.

Your mileage of course, may vary. You have a right to your dissenting opinion. I've not made any attempt to mangle your words to fit and suit my agenda.



- G

Last edited by Gallium; 02-12-2013 at 10:23..
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:27   #164
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Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
5 tons? Was the drunk in the cab of a big rig?
You mean like a Freightliner, or a Kenworth, or a Peterbuilt?
Those big rigs weigh roughly 60,000 lbs, which by my math is closer to 30 tons.

Dude, my F-350 4x4 weighs 7,500 lbs on a certified scale. That's 3.75 tons. Light trucks (pickups) are easily in the 3-5 ton range, so why are you jumping up this guy's butt?

So the guy you're giving a hard time to was off by roughly a ton... that means he only guessed 25% high. You on the other hand, were off by roughly 26 tons, that's over 700% off target. Thats right, seven HUNDRED percent. Perhaps you are not in quite the position to badmouth someone else's estimates that you think you are.



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Old 02-12-2013, 10:32   #165
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Here is a bit more detail:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57568871-504083/david-barajas-texas-man-charged-in-fatal-shooting-of-suspected-drunk-driver-who-killed-his-sons-authorities-say/


Quote:
Brazoria County sheriff's investigator Dominick Sanders said Monday that witnesses told authorities they saw Barajas, walk to his home right after the crash and then return a few minutes later and approach Banda's vehicle. Evidence showed one shot was fired, he said.

"Every time we would pursue a lead, it always came back to Mr. Barajas," Sanders said. "We have numerous statements placing him there at the car in close proximity to the victim at the time the gunshot was fired."

Barajas was indicted for murder Friday and turned himself in Sunday. He was held Monday in the Brazoria County Jail on a $450,000 bond.

A search of Barajas' home found ammunition that is consistent with the bullet that killed Banda, but authorities have not located the weapon used in the shooting, Sanders said. He added that the case is "going to be much more difficult if we don't have a weapon."

Gunshot residue tests were done on both Barajas and Banda, and authorities are still waiting for those results, Sanders said.

Investigators also are awaiting DNA test results of some "biological material" that was found at the scene. Sanders declined to elaborate on the material that is being tested.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:33   #166
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Originally Posted by Gallium View Post
What has happened here is you have backed yourself into a corner with your opinion, your belief, what you think...and you are trying to transmogrify my statements to fit the mold of what you think I am saying.

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Indeed. To quote Ayn Rand:

"Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong."
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:40   #167
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There is one more possibly mitigating factor. Was the drunk driver an illegal? If so then there was a very real possibility the driver was just going to fade back across the border. If you live in a border state then you know how common this is.

Ignoring that issue I would vote to convict. If he had killed him in the heat of the moment then I could buy a temporary insanity defense. Walking back to the house for a gun negates that, he made the decision to execute him.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:48   #168
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As much as I would hate a police state I would be fine with cops putting a bullet in the head of any person caught driving over the limit right there on the roadside.
No need for those silly Constitutional rights or any of that sissy crap, huh? You are the soul of hardcore. I salute you.























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Old 02-12-2013, 10:56   #169
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You mean like a Freightliner, or a Kenworth, or a Peterbuilt?
Those big rigs weigh roughly 60,000 lbs, which by my math is closer to 30 tons.

Dude, my F-350 4x4 weighs 7,500 lbs on a certified scale. That's 3.75 tons. Light trucks (pickups) are easily in the 3-5 ton range, so why are you jumping up this guy's butt?

So the guy you're giving a hard time to was off by roughly a ton... that means he only guessed 25% high. You on the other hand, were off by roughly 26 tons, that's over 700% off target. Thats right, seven HUNDRED percent. Perhaps you are not in quite the position to badmouth someone else's estimates that you think you are.


It's called sarcasm. Apparently you aren't familiar with it. There aren't many vehicles out there that are in the 10,000 pound vicinity that a drunk 20 year old is going to be driving. Sarcasm and badmouth are two different things sir. What you just did would fall in the realm of badmouthing.

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Old 02-12-2013, 10:56   #170
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Well obviously no court of law will allow him to walk because this was in no way self defense and in every way a pre mediated shooting derived from rage and anger. But I will say just deserts was served for the POS drunk driver. My finances mom was killed by a habitual drunk driver and I feel those People should all be lined up and double tapped in between the eyes.

Sad thing is the graver tragedy is the loss of 2 young kids due to some scum of the earth drunk driver, but the media attention will be drawn and focused on the man using the gun for retaliation. Fein****er won't be talking about how vehicles in the hand of drunk drivers is a problem that kills and devastates so many innocent families(exponentially more so than guns) and she/media will only focus on the gun that was used afterwards.

Thoughts and prayers go out to the families and their losses.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:15   #171
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One response so far, would like some more responses, thx

"Anyone in the group please answer this: You get t-boned going through a green light at an intersection. One or more members of your family are seriously or fatally injured while you are unscathed. You see the driver that hit you slurring his words and moaning over his steering wheel, reeking of Vodka whose bottle remains you see shattered over the driver and the front seats.

Looking at your dead and injured family members in your car, do you guys feel you are justified to immediately shoot the driver the hit you?

Honest answers please."
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:19   #172
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Anyone live close enough to slap this DH for me?
Haha, what is this, middle school? Grow up.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:27   #173
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Originally Posted by Gallium View Post
Well Sputnik, you know the beautiful idiom we have about opinions...

I have said if the shooter was in court and I was on the jury, I am not voting to convict if the facts are as they have been loosely presented here.

I also think that people who put their hands on bibles and swear to defend and uphold the constitution, but blatantly disregard this oath have lied under oath, and that there should be some criminal penalty for that...but you don't see me advocating that any of them be arrested.

What has happened here is you have backed yourself into a corner with your opinion, your belief, what you think...and you are trying to transmogrify my statements to fit the mold of what you think I am saying.

My recommendation to you is to be more careful and deliberate in what you are reading.

And yeah, if the dad was in front of me I'm not going to shake his hand, pat him on the back, carry him on my shoulders or give him an attaboy. Like I said, he has to live with taking someone else's life, and the loss of life of his two sons. But so help me, were I on a jury, with these facts, I am not convicting. He has been punished enough for his transgressions.

Your mileage of course, may vary. You have a right to your dissenting opinion. I've not made any attempt to mangle your words to fit and suit my agenda.



- G
Fair enough. Although the specific words that I focused on are about as clear cut as they get, whatever meaning you had behind them is for you to interpret and live by. I didn't mamgle anything to suit any agenda. I have no specific agenda. I took what you said, the specific lines that we've been arguing about, and took them at their face value. If you meant something different, you should have phrased it accordingly. For example, saying that drunks who kill deserve the death penalty has a vastly different meaning from saying that they should be executed on the side of the road. And it is much easier to swallow than an execution style killing without due process. The thing is, I don't even disagree with your premise. I just believe that american citizens deserve a trial by jury and not a vigilante execution. Unlike many people here, I believe that all of our rights should be respected, not just the ones we agree with. The thing is, I don't know anything about you. I can only make a judgement based on what you say, and I highly doubt that anyone reading your post would come to a different conclusion, especially if they have an agenda. As the saying goes, mean what say and day what you mean.

Last edited by sputnik767; 02-12-2013 at 11:50..
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:35   #174
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Originally Posted by MulletLoad View Post
One response so far, would like some more responses, thx

"Anyone in the group please answer this: You get t-boned going through a green light at an intersection. One or more members of your family are seriously or fatally injured while you are unscathed. You see the driver that hit you slurring his words and moaning over his steering wheel, reeking of Vodka whose bottle remains you see shattered over the driver and the front seats.

Looking at your dead and injured family members in your car, do you guys feel you are justified to immediately shoot the driver the hit you?

Honest answers please."
Are they dead or injured? Legally justified, no.

If the rest of my family is dead, the apparently drunk drivers chance of surviving the accident have dropped as I have nothing to lose. If any of my family is alive, they are my first priority. Either way, he won't leave the scene alive, unless he is in an ambulance, or a police car. He will not successfully flee the scene of a injury accident, if I can help it.

I am not sure why he left to go to his house, I don't think a gun was necessary. And the guy could have fled the scene at that time, depending on his injuries. He could have bled out if there was not proper medical care available. Maybe it was an accidental shooting.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:36   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
It's called sarcasm. Apparently you aren't familiar with it. There aren't many vehicles out there that are in the 10,000 pound vicinity that a drunk 20 year old is going to be driving. Sarcasm and badmouth are two different things sir. What you just did would fall in the realm of badmouthing.


Except you know, pretty much any fullsize truck with even a mediocre load in them......

I don't know about where you live but it's hardly uncommon here to see 18-20 something kids driving lifted trucks with an ATV/UTV/snowmachine in the back and a GVWR approaching or exceeding 10,000.
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