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Old 02-11-2013, 23:30   #101
arizona_andy
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It's my opinion that driving drunk on a public road with a BAC approaching 0.2 is about the most reckless and irresponsible thing that can possibly be done. If you can justifiably kill someone for acts such as armed robbery or attempted kidnapping (and you can in many states), then why not for killing two children while knowingly driving severely impaired? Anyone committing such an act has clearly demonstrated a total disregard for human life and deserves no place in our society.

If our prison system wasn't so crowded I'd happily give DDs 20 years in the slammer with no chance of parole the first time they are pulled over or caught at a checkpoint -- however, since prisons are indeed quite crowded these days, I wouldn't have a problem seeing a noose slide down around their necks. My beautiful girlfriend was nearly killed by one of these bastards and is scarred for life, so they'll get no sympathy from me.
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Old 02-11-2013, 23:38   #102
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It sounds like dad had the manhood to do what the system would have failed to do. I hope dad walks.

He has the something the justice system lost a long time ago. El Drunko should be dead. Weather it was from the accident or the death penalty that should be invoked for these kind of things.

Dad did society a favor. If I was on the jury, I couldn't find him guilty of murder. If he's guilty of anything, it's justice.
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Old 02-11-2013, 23:45   #103
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Terrible situation. Temporary insanity?
Might be his best defense.
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Old 02-11-2013, 23:49   #104
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Wow, incredible. You already have me believing that you should not own a gun. And that takes talent. But I guess advocating murder will do it.
Maybe you've never lost anybody you cared about to a drunk driver. There is no other group of law breakers that destroy so many lives and consistently get away with it with petty wrist slaps. 1000 drunks behind the wheel are not worth the one sober life that one of them might take. As much as I would hate a police state I would be fine with cops putting a bullet in the head of any person caught driving over the limit right there on the roadside. Maybe find a good use for all those officer Harless types out there. Sure would up the stakes in the "I think I'm OK to drive" game to the point to where almost nobody would want to play.

If you had a dead child or sister to think about every day thanks to drunk drivers you might be advocating for murder too.
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Old 02-11-2013, 23:51   #105
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I wouldn't find him guilty if on the jury. I lost a family member to a drunk driver, I think the drunk got exactly what he deserved.
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Old 02-11-2013, 23:58   #106
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So some think MURDER is ok if the person has caused the death of someones "loved one"? So if drunk bullet to head? How about if the driver was found to be texting? (one to chest?) If they are drinking coffee and spill some? do you kneecap them? Or are all bullet to head?

How about heart attack? Do you shoot paramedics that are doing CPR?
I had a guy injure my mother. Did I want to pound the crap out of him? Of course. did I? NO Unlike some here I actually have some control of my emotions. Maybe some should seek some counciling??
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Old 02-12-2013, 00:04   #107
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So some think MURDER is ok if the person has caused the death of someones "loved one"? So if drunk bullet to head? How about if the driver was found to be texting? (one to chest?) If they are drinking coffee and spill some? do you kneecap them? Or are all bullet to head?

How about heart attack? Do you shoot paramedics that are doing CPR?
I had a guy injure my mother. Did I want to pound the crap out of him? Of course. did I? NO Unlike some here I actually have some control of my emotions. Maybe some should seek some counciling??
This is the enigma of drunk driving. Killing people while texting, changing CDs or spilling hot coffee in your lap is no worse than being ****faced behind the wheel. HH
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Old 02-12-2013, 00:22   #108
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"On December 7, 2012, at about 11:30pm, ...
David, 12, and Caleb, 11, were pushing the truck when a car rear-ended their vehicle. "

He's not going to walk. We can't tell how much alcohol was a factor or the dark and lack of lights?
A BAC of .175 is more than twice the legal limit of .08 in most states, plus at age 20 he was under age.
I don't have a problem with him being whacked.
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Old 02-12-2013, 00:26   #109
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This is the enigma of drunk driving. Killing people while texting, changing CDs or spilling hot coffee in your lap is no worse than being ****faced behind the wheel. HH
So I still don't know. Will you shoot EMS that are doing CPR on heart attack?

So you are NEVER distracted for half a second while driving?
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Old 02-12-2013, 00:43   #110
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This is the enigma of drunk driving. Killing people while texting, changing CDs or spilling hot coffee in your lap is no worse than being ****faced behind the wheel. HH
I can change a CD without taking my eyes off the road. I have a travel mug with a lid on it. I pull over to text or do it at a light. Anyone can go from safe to unsafe driver in an instant and then right back to safe again in the same instant. Most of us do it several times per trip. The difference between those things and driving drunk is that drunks are unsafe for the entire trip.

Most people don't stop and ask themselves if they should drive because they might have to text or sip coffee. Every drunk that's harmed another asked themselves that question and came up with the wrong answer.

You also can't test for CD changes and other things that distract temporarily but you can test BAC so it's easier to get a conviction. No, they really aren't the same thing at all.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:19   #111
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Sad story. I think temporary insanity will probably be thrown around but things don't look good for him since he walked home to grab a gun. Hope he walks though.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:24   #112
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This is the enigma of drunk driving. Killing people while texting, changing CDs or spilling hot coffee in your lap is no worse than being ****faced behind the wheel. HH
Apparently some don't understand the difference between an accident and knowingly and intentionally putting others at great risk of serious bodily injury or death.

These people got behind the wheel knowing full well that they aren't fit to spend 1 second driving, let alone mile after mile. I'm sorry, but no one can convince me that it is any less reckless than taking a firearm and firing randomly in all directions in a populated area.

IMO, the only people that could possibly argue against this are people who do drink heavily themselves and don't want to admit just how dangerous this act really is.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:42   #113
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Apparently some don't understand the difference between an accident and knowingly and intentionally putting others at great risk of serious bodily injury or death.

These people got behind the wheel knowing full well that they aren't fit to spend 1 second driving, let alone mile after mile. I'm sorry, but no one can convince me that it is any less reckless than taking a firearm and firing randomly in all directions in a populated area.

IMO, the only people that could possibly argue against this are people who do drink heavily themselves and don't want to admit just how dangerous this act really is.
I do drink heavily and often, and still think it's despicable, and no punishment is too harsh for those who drink, drive, and ruin someone else's life.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:59   #114
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Just to make it clear to the what-if-ers... The driver WAS drunk. Lets not loose focus on one fact that we do know.

Temporary insanity. I'm NOT saying his actions were right, but I'd be hard pressed to say I wouldn't have done the same thing had it been my kids.

Vigilantism is NOT the answer either. No matter how you look at it, the whole situation is tragic, very tragic indeed.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:09   #115
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Who cares? Our legal system protects the scum and persecutes the righteous.

The shooter's going to walk. No jury will convict him.
I want to hug him and buy him a beer. I have 2 daughters and 100% would have done the same thing. I could never imagine losing one of my children let alone both
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:41   #116
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First off, I'm not giving out medical advice here, I don't have to live up to my presentation for anybody on this board. I'm not here in the capacity of a physician.

Second, your belief that drunk drivers deserve roadside killing has me believing that your mind isn't exactly in the right place. Your gun is there to protect yourself and your loved ones, not to dish out justice as you see fit. I'm not saying that we should not have harsher punishments for the types of criminals that you've described, but it is not your call to make. And there is no way you can spin roadside killings into something that doesn't allude to a vigilante style execution.

I've owned a gun for almost as long as you've been alive, and guess what? Nobody has died from a roadside killing. Your inability to discern between what I think should be the law, and what I do (follow the law) is disconcerting.

Your attempt to spin this into something it is not has be believing your mind isn't fully developed to understand these nuances, and I question your abilities to apply logic - seeing that you are in medical school.

For the next 20 or 40 years my opinion on drunk drivers is not going to change, and I'm not going to shoot any of them roadside (unless they are attacking me with clear and unambiguous deadly force).


Here is a suggestion: You are still young and full of idealism. Have a couple of kids, sit with them thru colicky nights, major illnesses, dance recitals, 1st steps, then come back to the subject.

THE REASON why Gov. Cuomo et al is able to pass these new(er) ridiculous gun laws is because despite what you think, or like, or know at an intellectual level...people react at a very emotional level with regards to "their kids" and kids in general. Which is why the phrase "if it saves the life of one child" is bandied about so much.

So guess what? That dude? I am on the jury, and all it takes is one to acquit, EVEN IF MY SON WAS THE DRUNK DRIVER HE KILLED - he goes home.

I don't know how much clearer on the subject I can be.

Drunk drivers are some of the scummiest people on earth.
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:55   #117
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Thanks for the correction. If so, my opinion of the "father on the phone at the airport" has taken a deep, deep dive. HH
The video was posted by the former kid on live leak. He had been raped for a long time before he was kidnapped and had been returned to his family already. I'm sure he told his dad what happened to him.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:39   #118
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I sympathize completely with him.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:43   #119
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As a LEO I get to be at these kinds of incidents long before the press gets any info and what I see is horrifying.
The report NEVER says what its really like :" vehicle 2 impacted vehicle 1 and 2 pedestrians who were assisting vehicle 1 at the rear" ...in reality its slimy blood, radiator fluids, engine oil, booze, glass, dirt, metal and plastic everywhere, people crying out, screams, lights, strobes, etc etc and in the end a profound change in the lives of the criminal and the innocent. Especially the innocent.
The carnage they wreak on the innocent is worse than any shooting.
Whole familes are destroyed with medical bills for injuries suffered while the drunk sobers up and gets a cinderella license to get to work to buy more booze so they can do it again.
I have no sympathy for those who drink and drive and even though I am sworn to protect them, I, as we all do, rejoice when they are killed in the crash of their own making where no others are damaged.
A DUI gets no sympathy from any LEO I know.
This DUI got to die another way. BFD, it was his time. Pity he didnt die in the wreck but not before suffering.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:43   #120
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I've owned a gun for almost as long as you've been alive, and guess what? Nobody has died from a roadside killing. Your inability to discern between what I think should be the law, and what I do (follow the law) is disconcerting.

Your attempt to spin this into something it is not has be believing your mind isn't fully developed to understand these nuances, and I question your abilities to apply logic - seeing that you are in medical school.

For the next 20 or 40 years my opinion on drunk drivers is not going to change, and I'm not going to shoot any of them roadside (unless they are attacking me with clear and unambiguous deadly force).


Here is a suggestion: You are still young and full of idealism. Have a couple of kids, sit with them thru colicky nights, major illnesses, dance recitals, 1st steps, then come back to the subject.

THE REASON why Gov. Cuomo et al is able to pass these new(er) ridiculous gun laws is because despite what you think, or like, or know at an intellectual level...people react at a very emotional level with regards to "their kids" and kids in general. Which is why the phrase "if it saves the life of one child" is bandied about so much.

So guess what? That dude? I am on the jury, and all it takes is one to acquit, EVEN IF MY SON WAS THE DRUNK DRIVER HE KILLED - he goes home.

I don't know how much clearer on the subject I can be.

Drunk drivers are some of the scummiest people on earth.
You said that drunk drivers deserve roadside killings. What am I spinning exactly? Don't try to spin your justification of homicide into my young idealism. I'm an immigrant in this country. Any vision of idealism was beaten out of me a long time ago. I am paying to work harder in med school than most people work at their jobs because I know this world isn't going to do me any favors.

This isn't even about whether or not the guy walks. This is about the twisted mentality that you and some others have. If you kill somebody and you're not acting in self defense or defense of others, its homicide. Spin it however you want, but you can't change that simple fact. As far as calling my abilities of logic or reasoning into question, I'm not so sure you have room to talk.

On a separate note, I wish I could say that I am surprised that my call for not murdering people gets such vocal opposition here, but sadly I'm not. The mentality that bad people deserve to die at the hands of people outside of the judicial system is very pervasive here. My guns are there to protect me and my loved ones, not to carry out vigilante justice. I have no problem using my weapons in self defense, but I believe that its wrong to pull the trigger on a person outside of that. Sadly, many here don't. Even more sad is that my support for our constitutional rights put me on the same field as people like you. I'm not exactly surprised that some people think we're nuts, based on this thread.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:53   #121
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It's a free country. You can make your own choices, but be prepared to face the consequences if it comes to it. Murder is murder, and both sides committed it here.
I agree but if the Judge let him off the hook.....he'd be gone in a few days and nobody would be the wiser. Drunk and or Judge.....after one they are all bonuses to society....so I would like to believe.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:09   #122
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This is it. I've seen enough diabetics in full keto to know that not only do they act drunk, they smell it. This guy played judge and jury before the facts and should be locked away. HH
One word, no.

Critical care paramedic here with eight years of 911 experience and I have never encountered a diabetic in DKA that even remotely smelled of etoh.

Besides that, this guy just watched his two kids die, I seriously doubt he was in the frame of mind to do a patient assessment. He saw a drunk guy that killed his kids, he killed said drunk guy that killed his kids, it really is as simple as that.

In my world view, he didn't do a damn thing wrong.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:13   #123
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Temporary insanity.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:16   #124
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One word, no.

Critical care paramedic here with eight years of 911 experience and I have never encountered a diabetic in DKA that even remotely smelled of etoh.

Besides that, this guy just watched his two kids die, I seriously doubt he was in the frame of mind to do a patient assessment. He saw a drunk guy that killed his kids, he killed said drunk guy that killed his kids, it really is as simple as that.

In my world view, he didn't do a damn thing wrong.
It certainly was not premeditated as some would suggest. He was in a mentally diminished capacity and reacted.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:16   #125
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Terrible situation. Temporary insanity?
Terrible, indeed. If he would have used a sling blade instead of a bullet, maybe would have helped his plead.

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