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Old 02-17-2013, 13:34   #351
Kingarthurhk
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Emotional reaction (rage) does not make murder legal.
Well, let's see, I am guessing you don't have children either.

So, in fiting with the usual crowd of lonely people in GNG, if someone slaughtered your dog in front of you? You would what?
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Old 02-17-2013, 14:00   #352
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It's Texas. Do you think a jury of his peers will convict him?
You ask about the people in Texas. I have lived here all my life'58' Years'. IMO I think he will be found gulity of Pre-Meditated Murder.

Last edited by stroker; 02-17-2013 at 14:04..
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Old 02-17-2013, 14:02   #353
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You ask about the people in Texas. I have lived here all my life'58' Years'. IMO I think he will be found gulity of Per-Meditated Murder.
Is that when you murder a cat?
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Old 02-17-2013, 14:04   #354
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Is that when you murder a cat?
I'll have to think a while on that one "LOL" I just saw what you are talking about. "Sorry about the spelling I corrected it

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Old 02-17-2013, 14:57   #355
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The subtext of my "ejaculation" was that your assertion (by way of your question) that somehow one's political and societal views could dictate whether or not they were a "real" Texan. The fact that you or anyone else thinks they are the arbiter of what constitutes a "real" Texan is what is asinine.
You gathered all this from my question: "Do you live in Texas or are you a Texan"? That's quite a reach.

You clearly are injecting your emotions and biases into generating a fictional interpretation of a straight forward question - the basis of which I have twice explained to you, but you have yet to grasp.

I had a professor in grad school that advised that there comes a point in some discussions where it is appropriate to claim the "Proverbs 29.9 Defense" and disengage. I am fast approaching that point with you as you continue to attempt to assign absurd intent to a simple question.

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Mince words, pontificate and tapdance all you want if it makes you feel better.
You have a talent for baseless and contradictory allegations - at no time did I attempt to soften anything I said ("mince words"), espouse dogma ("pontificate") or avoid the issue at hand ("tapdance" [sic]).
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Last edited by GVFlyer; 02-17-2013 at 22:50.. Reason: Added an article to maintain my gramatical purity.
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Old 02-17-2013, 21:08   #356
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I'm a Christian... a father... and a former cop until I was permanently disabled by an illegal driver myself. I hope the father of the two deceased boys is acquitted. Sometimes justice in it's purest form doesn't come from a decision in a court room. The drunk driver who killed the boys met with appropriate justice. Prayers to the boys' parents.
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Old 02-17-2013, 22:28   #357
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I'm a Christian... a father... and a former cop until I was permanently disabled by an illegal driver myself. I hope the father of the two deceased boys is acquitted. Sometimes justice in it's purest form doesn't come from a decision in a court room. The drunk driver who killed the boys met with appropriate justice. Prayers to the boys' parents.
I hope you sued the drunk driver into oblivion. I am sorry you were disabled by someone's utter selfishness. You are a wounded warrior in my book. Stay strong, brother.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:57   #358
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while i am sympathetic for the shooter, we need to follow the rule of law, or we (gun people) are as bad as our enemies. they seem to think the end justifies the means, and that since their cause is right (to them), any way of achieving it is ok. we all know this is wrong
there is just no way to justify his actions legally. if he had been carrying, he might get off with temporary insanity, but going home to get a firearm and returning is premeditated. it is not self or family-defense, it is revenge. it may also be due justice for the drunk, but not in a legal sense.
my thoughts and prayers go out to this father, and i hope he gets a lighter sentence (extreme extenuating circumstances).
in the same situation, i may do the same thing, but i would expect jail time.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:22   #359
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Originally Posted by SGT278ACR View Post
I'm a Christian... a father... and a former cop until I was permanently disabled by an illegal driver myself. I hope the father of the two deceased boys is acquitted. Sometimes justice in it's purest form doesn't come from a decision in a court room. The drunk driver who killed the boys met with appropriate justice. Prayers to the boys' parents.

Sorry for your setbacks sir.

People who have never been in the fray can only speak from a detached, sterile opinion. I encourage anyone in this thread that has an opinion that the dad is absolutely guilty of the shooting to revisit the top if/when (and I hope it never happens) a loved on of theirs is rubbed off the face of the earth by a drunk driver.

Post then, compare to what you are posting now, and see the difference in your outlook on this.

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Old 02-18-2013, 12:29   #360
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Sorry for your setbacks sir.

People who have never been in the fray can only speak from a detached, sterile opinion. I encourage anyone in this thread that has an opinion that the dad is absolutely guilty of the shooting to revisit the top if/when (and I hope it never happens) a loved on of theirs is rubbed off the face of the earth by a drunk driver.

Post then, compare to what you are posting now, and see the difference in your outlook on this.

- G

Going through a personal experience should not be a motivator to take the law into his own hands.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:52   #361
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Going through a personal experience should not be a motivator to take the law into his own hands.
The problem with the law, as it applies to drunk drivers, is that it is far too lenient, and way too porous. If the statute was roadside execution after a real trial within 4hrs of the incident, the incidence of DUI /DWI would fall precipitously.

Since we don't have the balls to do what is right, I cannot blame someone for doing the "right" thing.

Going thru a personal experience should not be a motivator to take the law into own hands, but as you can see, going thru such a horrible experience changes one's psychology so much, that his defense might be temporary insanity.
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Old 02-18-2013, 13:42   #362
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Going through a personal experience should not be a motivator to take the law into his own hands.
Ironic. Considering how many I have heard in GNG spout off with, "If someone killed my dog, I would kill them."

Apparently, children hold less value?
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Old 02-18-2013, 14:19   #363
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The problem with the law, as it applies to drunk drivers, is that it is far too lenient, and way too porous. If the statute was roadside execution after a real trial within 4hrs of the incident, the incidence of DUI /DWI would fall precipitously.

Since we don't have the balls to do what is right, I cannot blame someone for doing the "right" thing.

Going thru a personal experience should not be a motivator to take the law into own hands, but as you can see, going thru such a horrible experience changes one's psychology so much, that his defense might be temporary insanity.
Besides the fact that your method of roadside executions would likely not reduce the incidence of drunk driving, I have no problem with increasing the penalties for drunk driving. However, the penalties would have to actually keep a driver from driving a vehicle, and needless to say, taking away his license would not necessarily keep him from driving. I've heard of cities crushing the cars of people who street race. Perhaps that is not a bad alternative to executing them.

As to why I don't think that such harsh measures as you are proposing would solve the problem, it's because drunk people are not necessarily rational thinkers. The phrase "I'm perfectly fine to drive comes to mind." Let's put it this way, for as long as there is alcohol and automobiles, people will always drink and drive, and just you getting into a car puts you at a much higher risk for injury. The best thing you can do is protect yourself as much as possible. Have a safe car, have every passenger belted, even in the back, and of course, not have your kids pushing your car down a dark country road. There are plenty of dangerous drivers out there, from the fatigued, to the old, distracted, or incompetent. And no matter how many laws you pass, you're not going to solve the problem. Imagine me coming off a 24 hour shift at the hospital, getting only 3-4 hours of sleep the night before. That is the reality for many medical students and residents. Aren't they technically unfit to drive? If you extrapolate this to gun crime, even if all firearms were to be surrendered and owning one was punishable by death, you would still have gun crime. And nobody is taking our cars away.

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Old 02-18-2013, 14:22   #364
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Ironic. Considering how many I have heard in GNG spout off with, "If someone killed my dog, I would kill them."

Apparently, children hold less value?
The person would go to jail in both cases. Shooting the drunk did absolutely nothing to protect the father's kids. You can't legally shoot after the fact, and you certainly can't kill somebody over killing your dog.
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Old 02-18-2013, 14:45   #365
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Well, let's see, I am guessing you don't have children either.

So, in fiting with the usual crowd of lonely people in GNG, if someone slaughtered your dog in front of you? You would what?
Obviously you guess wrong. Don't try and become a detective because I have often said "my kid" and you have missed the clues.

If my kid was killed, even though I have rage, doesnt make murder illegal.

Many terrorists use the excuse that their family was killed by Americans so they are justified in their actions against Americans. How is what you are espousing any different that what they are saying.

Do you not believe in the justice system in the USA and feel that becoming a roadside vigilante and shooting someone is acceptable instead of letting the legal system handle it?

What do you see the difference between a legal system and a vengeance system is?
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Old 02-18-2013, 14:48   #366
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Well, let's see, I am guessing you don't have children either.

So, in fiting with the usual crowd of lonely people in GNG, if someone slaughtered your dog in front of you? You would what?
Call the police. Aren't you a cop?
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Old 02-18-2013, 14:49   #367
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What I don't understand is why the shooter left his kids to go get a gun? I would be more preoccupied with the victims welfare...
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Old 02-18-2013, 14:50   #368
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Call the police. Aren't you a cop?
I think calling the police to report the crime is what I am supposed to do. I dont think I am allowed to be police, prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner? Or maybe I have it wrong.
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Old 02-18-2013, 14:53   #369
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I don't believe we elect judges.
We sure elect judges in IL. Every election there are some up. Its not a vote for so many, its a retain/do not retain vote.
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Old 02-18-2013, 15:39   #370
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We sure elect judges in IL. Every election there are some up. Its not a vote for so many, its a retain/do not retain vote.
Yea, it seems that you elect judges in quite a few states. I've only voted in the state of VA, and I can't recall ever voting on a judge. It's been a while since I voted though. Couldn't vote absentee in the last election because hurricane sandy stopped my mail for about 2 weeks. I didn't get the ballot in time.
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Old 02-18-2013, 16:00   #371
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Yea, it seems that you elect judges in quite a few states. I've only voted in the state of VA, and I can't recall ever voting on a judge. It's been a while since I voted though. Couldn't vote absentee in the last election because hurricane sandy stopped my mail for about 2 weeks. I didn't get the ballot in time.

Some judges are also elected in NY. I happen to know a couple who were elected (and re-elected). Also know of a couple (upstate....waaay upstate) who are genuine gun guys and frequent shooters. One of em has an evil black rifle.
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Old 02-18-2013, 16:17   #372
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Obviously you guess wrong. Don't try and become a detective because I have often said "my kid" and you have missed the clues.
That could reffer to a hypothetical. There are a lot of those given here on a daily and hoursly basis, so you can understand the potential confusion.

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If my kid was killed, even though I have rage, doesnt make murder illegal.
I think you meant to say, "doesn't make murder legal"?

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Many terrorists use the excuse that their family was killed by Americans so they are justified in their actions against Americans. How is what you are espousing any different that what they are saying.
I am going to play, for lack of a bette word, "devil's advocate" all day long. I often do in here, to try and prove a point. Though, often it is missed.

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Do you not believe in the justice system in the USA and feel that becoming a roadside vigilante and shooting someone is acceptable instead of letting the legal system handle it?
If you want to know my opinion after years of dealing with courts and court cases? I honestly don't think there is a justice system. I think there is just a system. Most times nothing just is done in the justice system. This is especially true when it comes to drunk drivers. They get misdemeanors over and over and over again, until someone dies, then they get treated like the very low end of manslaughter and get out on probation and are right out doing it all over again.

I think DWI homocided should be treated as Frist Degree Muder and have the dealth penalty attached. It would definately reduce recidivism, and possibly mitigate reactions like the father had. He had his two children instantly transfigured into gruesome corpses before his very eyes by someone who was probably so intoxicated they could really give a **** that they did it.

I don't know if you have:

1. Ever seen a dead person.
2. Ever seen a managled fresh corpse on a road.

I am fairly certain he was wearing the gore of his children on him at the time.

I am sure from your the comfort of your computer chair you probably can't imagine such things. But, a lot of us have seen the horror of people who have instantly lost a close friend or loved one before their very eyes. They are gone mentally. They are laying out injured, their loved one's brains are all over the place popped like a grape. They are in shock. Hell, those of us who have had to witness those things are forcing to the back of our mind because there is a scene to control, and stuff that needs to be done.

Imagine having your kids severed body parts everywhere, and you are wearing their brains. I really don't think you would be calm, cool, collected, or analytical about the situation. I sure as hell wouldn't be.

Quote:
What do you see the difference between a legal system and a vengeance system is?
The legal system? I see prosecutors wanting to get cases through as quickly as possible, plea bargains and all, just to make sure their dance card shows as many conviction wins as possible. I take if you haven't had much experience with it?
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Old 02-18-2013, 16:41   #373
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Some judges are also elected in NY. I happen to know a couple who were elected (and re-elected). Also know of a couple (upstate....waaay upstate) who are genuine gun guys and frequent shooters. One of em has an evil black rifle.
I am actually not an NYS or NYC resident, I just live here. So I can't vote here. I am still a VA resident as per the DMV, and my car has VA plates. Still paying NYC insurance prices though. Hopefully I am not going to be a NY resident because the politics of this place piss me off, but of course that depends on where my residency training takes me after med school. I mean, we all know that this is the least gun friendly state in the country (I can't even own a pump shotgun here, my only crime being that I'm not an NYC resident), but my GF can't even get pepper spray shipped here because most places don't ship that here.
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Old 02-18-2013, 18:04   #374
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You do what you got to do. I got no problems with his actions.
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Old 02-18-2013, 18:19   #375
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I'm a Christian... a father... and a former cop until I was permanently disabled by an illegal driver myself. I hope the father of the two deceased boys is acquitted. Sometimes justice in it's purest form doesn't come from a decision in a court room. The drunk driver who killed the boys met with appropriate justice. Prayers to the boys' parents.
This is the ticket, Thanks for your service Friend my Grandfather died in the line of duty at Houston Police Dept. by a drunk with a .32
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