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Old 02-10-2013, 10:47   #1
35fan
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Delta Elite vs Glock 20 case comparison

First time posting here, recently added a 20SF to go along with my DE. I've put a Bar-Sto on back order through Midway...the following case measurement data is from some past and recent shooting with both pistols. Interesting comparison with the Georgia Arms ammo. FWIW

Start w/ 20 SF since this is a Glock Forum

Georgia Arms 155 JHP - G10A

.431
.431
.431
.432
.432

Underwood 165TMJ mixed with 180TMJ (just days old)

.432 for all 5

Colt Delta Elite (purchased used in mid-90's)

Georgia Arms G10A (same lot as used in 20SF)
.426 for 4
.427 for #5

Handload 180gr GD 11 Gr Blue Dot starline brass
.427 for 4
.428 for #5

Black Hills 155 gr JHP
.427 for 4
.428 for #5

Didn't try the Underwood in Delta Elite

Ed
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Old 02-11-2013, 19:02   #2
_The_Shadow
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Hello Ed, to the forum...
Those expansions are not bad, Glocks will expand to 0.434" as a max, measure the inside if the chamber and you will see about that measurement. Any thing extra will start to produce a "SMILE" (not good)!

However those rounds that would yield 0.434 in the glock will probably balloon out around the unsupported section of the DE!

Keep studing your brass.
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Old 02-11-2013, 19:39   #3
35fan
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I was actually a bit surprised by a couple of things:

1. The 180Gr Gold Dot load of 11 gr BD didn't bulge the DE anymore than it did, in fact no more than any other rounds I have fired through the DE. I never measured case expansion of different rounds fired out of the DE until I did it yesterday.

2. I expected more of a Glock smile with the underwood loads

3. The Glock chambers are generous and I want to be able to come up with one load that I can shoot in both without having difficulty resizing brass/fitting Glock fired brass into DE. I have to be careful as it is to only shoot the Underwood loads with the Glock. I've already marked the ammo can to help me "remember" and most likely will only take one or the other pistols/ammo to the range.

4. I can't hit the broad side of the barn with the Glock! I took the DE through a defensive handgun course last year and went through 400 rounds in two days. Of course, they put me on the end of the line as the concussion and brass flying out was causing other students some consternation lol. I was in the shop the other day and the instructor from the course remembered me and the DE "you hit pretty good with that 10mm". I have never used a striker fired or polymer pistol before and will need some dedicated range time to get the hang of it.

5. Why do people say the G20 is easier/softer shooting than a 1911 style platform? I didn't think so shooting the same ammo in both...it could be my grip but my trigger hand/fingers had enough after a couple mags.

Ed
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Old 02-11-2013, 22:53   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fan View Post

5. Why do people say the G20 is easier/softer shooting than a 1911 style platform? I didn't think so shooting the same ammo in both...it could be my grip but my trigger hand/fingers had enough after a couple mags.

Ed
The bore axis on the G20 is lower so less recoil leverage. The fat grip spreads recoil over a broader area. The G20 slide is darned heavy too. All of that adds up to recoil reduction. I can shoot 200 rounds of hot stuff through the G20 without a problem. My teeth might start hurting from percussion , but my hands and arms are ok. The 1911s with stiff loads are more abusive in my experience.

You are accustomed to the 1911, so that is what you are comfortable with. You might find that the G20 will grow on you - although the trigger will never be quite as nice.
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Old 02-12-2013, 22:24   #5
TDC20
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4. I can't hit the broad side of the barn with the Glock! I took the DE through a defensive handgun course last year and went through 400 rounds in two days. Of course, they put me on the end of the line as the concussion and brass flying out was causing other students some consternation lol. I was in the shop the other day and the instructor from the course remembered me and the DE "you hit pretty good with that 10mm". I have never used a striker fired or polymer pistol before and will need some dedicated range time to get the hang of it.
About the only thing I have ever recommended with the word "liberal" in it is dry firing the Glock platform. For someone who has no experience shooting striker fired guns, it can be difficult to master. Practice at home dry firing. Have a small target aiming point, and keep working that trigger until you can get the trigger to break and follow through without the sight alignment moving. You may be surprised at how well this can be done once you understand the principle. Make sure the force you are applying to the trigger is in an imaginary line extending straight through the center of the grip to the web between your thumb and forefinger of your shooting hand. If you are applying any lateral force (it's hard not to do even when you think you aren't), then your point of aim will tend to shift when the trigger breaks. You should be able to get to the point where you are only holding the pistol between your trigger finger and the web of your hand, and get the trigger to break without sight movement (not suggesting shooting that way, of course, just as an exercise that helps establish proper trigger control). At that point, not only will you have mastered the striker fired trigger, but pretty much any other difficult trigger.

Liberal dry fire practice will help a lot without burning up a bunch of ammo learning what you can do for free. What you want to do is to establish good trigger control habits to the extent that you learn how to pull the trigger correctly every time without having to think about it. At that point you will have trained your subconscious how to do this, and those good habits will stay with you with just a little practice from time to time. Try to get in 10-15min. a day dry firing for a couple of weeks. You will start to see the improvement during your dry fire sessions, and when you finally hit the range for live fire, you should see a big improvement there, too.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:29   #6
35fan
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Appreciate the input guys. I found some good trigger control articles and and a few youtube videos and have been dry firing, concentrating on the trigger breaking without the front sight moving. Hopefully will be able to get out and send a few down range this weekend!
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Old 02-15-2013, 17:32   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fan View Post
4. I can't hit the broad side of the barn with the Glock! .... I have never used a striker fired or polymer pistol before and will need some dedicated range time to get the hang of it.
You answered your own question didn't you?

The post above about dry firing is right on the money.

But, something I was taught in a defensive pistol class really helped me with the Glock trigger.
Are you familiar with the concept of riding the reset on the trigger. You pull the trigger and hold it down. The gun goes bang (or click if you are dry firing). If you release the trigger slightly, you will feel the sear click before the trigger is fully released. At this point, if you pull the trigger, there will be less travel.

You can dry fire the gun this way too. After firing, hold the trigger down and then you only need to pull the slide back 1/2 inch and you'll feel the sear reset. This might help. I've owned Glocks since '94, and somewhere along the line I learned to actually like the trigger. It'll never be a 1911, but it might grow on you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fan View Post
5. Why do people say the G20 is easier/softer shooting than a 1911 style platform? I didn't think so shooting the same ammo in both...it could be my grip but my trigger hand/fingers had enough after a couple mags.
I think polymer guns flex and soak up reoil, but I also find that the added weight of a heavier steel gun soaks up recoil too.
The only place I've actually found an advantage is with my tiny polymer Ruger LC9. I can't believe that a gun that small and light doesn't hurt to shoot .

Welcome to Glocktalk. I hope that you find Glocks as addicting as I did.
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Old 02-17-2013, 19:45   #8
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... Hopefully will be able to get out and send a few down range this weekend!
Once you master it, you may want a G29 to accompany your G20.

The G29 is the most definite, awesome, final, conclusive, show-stopping gun for SD. If the bullet doesn't reach the target, the paralyzing sound will.
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