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Old 02-15-2013, 06:14   #76
BuckyP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsurfboard View Post
If Glock ditched their polymer covered magazine, they could do it too. That contributes to chunky grips of the glock line.
That was my initial impression as well, but then if you think about it:

M&P Compact .45 = 8 rounds
GLOCK 38 .45 = 8 rounds

The only thing that would be needed to make a .45 ACP GLOCK 38 is to make the magazine and frame longer front to back. The width would not have to change. Add to that, that it would seem the lower pressure .45 ACP would allow for a slimmer slide, ALA G36 and G30S, which has been stated is not doable in .45 GAP.

LOL, that's my proposal for the GLOCK 40, 41 and 42

Why not? HK did something similar when they went from the 12 round USP .45 to the 10 Round HK 45.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:08   #77
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Originally Posted by rrrr View Post
Austin,

The caracal subcompact is the width of the Kahr and it holds 13 rounds. Wonder how they did that?
Maybe the grip is 3 feet long...
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:13   #78
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Originally Posted by BuckyP View Post
The only thing that would be needed to make a .45 ACP GLOCK 38 is to make the magazine and frame longer front to back. The width would not have to change. Add to that, that it would seem the lower pressure .45 ACP would allow for a slimmer slide, ALA G36 and G30S, which has been stated is not doable in .45 GAP.
Again, that was considering the old single recoil spring technology. With the new dual recoil spring on the Gen 4 guns, it is quite possible that the slide could be narrower on the ACP and GAP pistols.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:29   #79
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Originally Posted by rrrr View Post
Austin,

The caracal subcompact is the width of the Kahr and it holds 13 rounds. Wonder how they did that?
They didn't

The KAHR is slimmer (1.01" compared to 1.1")

And that is comparing the KAHR 45 to the Caracal 9mm. Caracal does not make a 45.

The KAHR PM9 is only .9" wide and almost a full inch shorter.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:24   #80
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They didn't

The KAHR is slimmer (1.01" compared to 1.1")

And that is comparing the KAHR 45 to the Caracal 9mm. Caracal does not make a 45.

The KAHR PM9 is only .9" wide and almost a full inch shorter.
Thank you, sir. That's how internet rumors, get started.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:34   #81
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Any future magazine ban will result in a major industry of "magazine rebuild kits".
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:49   #82
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Originally Posted by BuckyP View Post
The only thing that would be needed to make a .45 ACP GLOCK 38 is to make the magazine and frame longer front to back. The width would not have to change. Add to that, that it would seem the lower pressure .45 ACP would allow for a slimmer slide, ALA G36 and G30S, which has been stated is not doable in .45 GAP.



Why not? HK did something similar when they went from the 12 round USP .45 to the 10 Round HK 45.
The GAP exists because they had to make 45 ACP shorter, in order for it to be used in a 38 size gun. Doing what you suggest, would result in a G21. You have reinvented the wheel.

When my 12 round 45 ACP H&K USP, went to 10 rounds the mags just had a block, in the bottom. The original 12 round mags still fit, just fine. I must have misread something.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:36   #83
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The GAP exists because they had to make 45 ACP shorter, in order for it to be used in a 38 size gun. Doing what you suggest, would result in a G21. You have reinvented the wheel.
No, the GLOCK 21 is also wider (side to side) because the magazine is wider. If you took the G17/G37 frame (or 19/38 or 26/39) and made it "deeper front to back", you'd have a full size 10 round .45 ACP. that is just as thin (side to side) as the G17.

Those that are saying you can make a thinner gun, using the metal magazine as a reason, are comparing to guns like the M&P, which happens to be 10 rounds (full size) and 8 rounds (compact).

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinTx View Post
When my 12 round 45 ACP H&K USP, went to 10 rounds the mags just had a block, in the bottom. The original 12 round mags still fit, just fine. I must have misread something.
Yep, you misread. When I said HK45, I was talking a model of gun, which is different than a USP .45.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:26   #84
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I like the g37 38 and 39. They do not need to redesign anything. It was an epic design to begin with. The wider slide makes for less felt recoil, the frame fits my hand beter than M&P compact, and the powder used in the GAP is better than ACP. It seriously is not as loud. Had a guy shooting a 1911 next to me at range, and his shots were way louder than mine.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:45   #85
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Originally Posted by greenlion View Post
They didn't

The KAHR is slimmer (1.01" compared to 1.1")

And that is comparing the KAHR 45 to the Caracal 9mm. Caracal does not make a 45.

The KAHR PM9 is only .9" wide and almost a full inch shorter.
Greenlion,

I am comparing apples to apples here. Look up the Caracal "Subcompact" specs it does have a 23.5mm width or .92" It is 9mm as is the Kahr we were discussing at .90 or 22.86mm.
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Old 02-15-2013, 13:55   #86
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Caracal has 2 pistols listed on their website, an F (full size) and C (compact) model. The C model has a width of 28mm which is 1.1".

Where are you getting the specs for this subcompact gun that Caracal does not have on its website? Is it vaporware or are they actually on the market?
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Old 02-15-2013, 17:02   #87
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I like the g37 38 and 39. They do not need to redesign anything. It was an epic design to begin with. The wider slide makes for less felt recoil, the frame fits my hand beter than M&P compact, and the powder used in the GAP is better than ACP. It seriously is not as loud. Had a guy shooting a 1911 next to me at range, and his shots were way louder than mine.
Not suggesting a redesign, but an addition to the lineup. While I am not interested in the GAP models, I don't advocate they get rid of them. Options are good. Don't understand the "hate".
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Old 02-15-2013, 19:31   #88
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I don't understand why people hate on them lol. To each their own. I don't shoot 357 SIG but I dont hate on it. I love 45 ACP just can't do double stack mags. I'm a big guy but average hands.
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Old 02-15-2013, 21:24   #89
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Originally Posted by BuckyP View Post

Yep, you misread. When I said HK45, I was talking a model of gun, which is different than a USP .45.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyP View Post

Why not? HK did something similar when they went from the 12 round USP .45 to the 10 Round HK 45.
Who misread what? You did say "USP .45, if you can still read.

BTW, I don't think you are a gun designer and I have no idea what you meant, now.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:26   #90
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Who misread what? You did say "USP .45, if you can still read.

BTW, I don't think you are a gun designer and I have no idea what you meant, now.
I am comparing the HK USP to the HK model HK45.
http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_produ...45_general.asp

So... If someone is not a gun designer, they aren't entitled to an opinion? Not sure what that has to do with anything.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:48   #91
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Bottom line - - other companies can make grips for guns chambered in .45 acp that are thinner front to back and side to side than Glock does. The issue is not can it be done, but rather is Glock willing to do it - - Glock's answer is NO. They would rather produce and sell a FEW .45 GAPs than produce and sell many of the .45 acp pistols American shooters want. We basically want a .45 acp Glock with the ergos of the 1911 and its compact variants similar to what S&W is doing with their M&P line.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:51   #92
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No, you’re not entitled to your opinion

Here I wanna say something like this: “I’m sure you’ve heard the expression ‘everyone is entitled to their opinion.’

But if ‘entitled to an opinion’ means ‘entitled to have your views treated as serious candidates for the truth’

Caliber Corner

Last edited by arthur007; 02-16-2013 at 07:54.. Reason: spell mistake - added in quotte
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Old 02-16-2013, 22:02   #93
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Bottom line - - other companies can make grips for guns chambered in .45 acp that are thinner front to back and side to side than Glock does. The issue is not can it be done, but rather is Glock willing to do it - - Glock's answer is NO. They would rather produce and sell a FEW .45 GAPs than produce and sell many of the .45 acp pistols American shooters want. We basically want a .45 acp Glock with the ergos of the 1911 and its compact variants similar to what S&W is doing with their M&P line.
Glock WAS willing to do that, remember the 21SF?

They actually have done, what you seem to want. Glock made the M21 and after all the whining, they made a M21SF (short frame). The grip was smaller.

It's beginning to sound like you want a single stack 45 ACP. It's impossible to build a high cap 45 ACP, the size of a 1911.

Goodby, I'm done.
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Old 02-17-2013, 00:30   #94
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Bang for capacity: 45ACP+P and 45Super beats GAP anyday. Smaller grips, etc. ? There are way more pistols with equal or higher capacity (7-10) than a 39 or 38. There are five pistols that blow the 39 away and about the same or a few more that spank the 38. The GAP has no merits unless you're a girly-handed Glock fan-boy. Period. I own many Glocks, been shooting them for close to 20 years but the 36 and the GAP's are crap. I'd buy (and may) a GAP as a last resort/no other ammo available type thing. It will be the first one to be put on the back burner. I have plenty of all others I own stock-piled, ability to reload and about 20,000 various cases ready to go. No thanks, GAP really is dead.
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Old 02-17-2013, 00:34   #95
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I don't understand why people hate on them lol. To each their own. I don't shoot 357 SIG but I dont hate on it. I love 45 ACP just can't do double stack mags. I'm a big guy but average hands.
Don't you understand? Those couple hundred GAPers are taking our boolitz!!!
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Old 02-17-2013, 00:41   #96
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I like the g37 38 and 39. They do not need to redesign anything. It was an epic design to begin with. The wider slide makes for less felt recoil, the frame fits my hand beter than M&P compact, and the powder used in the GAP is better than ACP. It seriously is not as loud. Had a guy shooting a 1911 next to me at range, and his shots were way louder than mine.
What? 45+P loads are the same but more powerful because more room in the case. Also, recoil is MORE with GAP because the slide cycle is shorter, so it's more (I hate this term) "snappy". The .40 is more "snappy" then 10mm for the same reason.
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Old 02-17-2013, 00:50   #97
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One more point. Any ACP can shoot GAP with or without a drop in barrel (extractor hold w/o) but no GAP will ever shoot the more popular ACP.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:26   #98
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... The GAP has no merits unless you're a girly-handed Glock fan-boy. Period. .....
Serves the purpose of annoying you. And perhaps making you sort out the short brass from the ACP pile.

That's good enough for me.

Tout all you want about ACP+P and ACP Super, (talk about the rounds you do not find at Walmart), ACP standard loads, the loads that have been to war and back for 100 years, had dead air in the case. Don't be mad because Speer/Glock engineered it out, beefed up the case and switched to small primers to produce a targeted performance product that fit in a very popular 9mm/40cal Glock frame that holds 2 more rounds than a 1911. GAP has been around about half the time you claim to have been shooting Glocks and will be around 10 years from now.

And ... if one were to use your reasoning, 1911 grips would be even more "girlie".
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:31   #99
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The fact that .45GAP ammo is almost non existent makes it a BIG NO for me.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:25   #100
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The fact that .45GAP ammo is almost non existent makes it a BIG NO for me.
Despite a major ammo shortage, it only took a simple search to find several "in-stock" sources for the "non-existent" ammo.

http://www.luckygunner.com/handgun/45-gap-ammo

http://www.********.com/handgun/bulk-.45-gap-ammo

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index....p-hollow-point

http://www.underwoodammo.com/45gap.aspx
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