[gnepig]

Is this just an AR15 Forum or can I ask questions about other black guns here?

[michael_b]

This is the AR forum, I'd post in General Firearms.


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[bigmoney890]

Technically speaking, the black rifle can be a wide variety of firearms, but this forum most frequently attracts the AR crowd as Michael B pointed out. Feel free to ask away, but you might now receive the amount of feedback that you'd expect from this forum.

[gnepig]

Thanx, wasn't sure..

[Wyoming]

Originally Posted by gnepig

Thanx, wasn't sure..

Don't be shy, let's here it.

[gnepig]

They moved this post from the AR forum... oops

Ok, traded for this gun at the gun show this weekend and don't know anything about it. I went to try it out today and the bolt wouldn't pick the round up out of the mag, tried the other mag and it did the same thing. The bolt catches the case head (bottom of the bullet) and slams it into a small ledge under the chamber. This smashes the tip of the projectile flat... wtf

Anyone have any ideas why this happens?

Thanx Gene

[1gewehr]

It could be one of several things.
The easiest is that the magazine spring was installed backwards. The magazine spring should have most of the force pushing on the front of the round, not the back. If you take the spring out, you will easily see what I mean.
The next most likely is that the magazine catch is not holding the magazine all the way up in the magazine well. If you can push up on the back of the magazine and it moves more than just a tiny bit, then this may be your problem.
The worst case is that the receiver has recess for the little nub on the magazine front milled too low. That will take an expert to correct.

You might try looking for information over at FALFiles.net. You can get more expert information there than you are likely to find here. And if you need a good gunsmith, that is the place to find one.

You will be asked Who made the receiver. A photo of the chamber and inside of the receiver with a magazine inserted will be helpful as well.

[fnfalman]

Or whomever installed the barrel, jacked it all up to hell.

[gjk5]

Or (if applicable), the monkey at Century who assembled it was pissed that he did not get enough 'nanners that day.

[Wyoming]

Originally Posted by fnfalman

Or whomever installed the barrel, jacked it all up to hell.

I have installed a few FAL barrels for friends and you would have to be really dumb to screw it up.

You set the shoulder back until the witness marks line up with proper torque. If you got that off the front sight would be off and nothing would line up.

I wish I could see the rifle in person because something is off.

[Seven High]

Does it look like your FAL has been refinished recently? If so, take it apart and polish the rails inside of the receiver. Use fine emery paper. Do the same to the carrier. Lube it with grease then try it again.

[gnepig]

Thanx for responding men, I will check the mag springs first as the rounds seem to lay really flat in the mags. Seems like the feed ramp should be taller than it is.
Also thanx for the web site address...

[jhooten]

OR using a metric mag in an inch pattern receiver can cause it.

[GunHo198]

I had the same problems. Fortunately I have two matching FALs and it did the same on both rifles. It was a bolt over jam where the bolt would slightly feed over the round, denting the case and jaming the round.

At first I thought it was the Receivers,as the mags were Brand New From Austria. Later I used some old 1940's original mags. And they both fed without issue. So I compared both mags with a micronometer wrench? And the new mags were off just a bit keeping the round lower than the original mags. So I got a set of needle nose and slowly opened them up at key points till they matched the original mags. Had to do this with about 12 mags.

Weapon feeds fine now. Do one mag at a time till it feeds right. Then move on to the next mag.


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[gnepig]

I appreciate the responses, I hope to like this gun ...

How do I tell an inch mag from a metric? Both mags fit all of the way in and lock good, the one that I think looks older, I wouldn't say fits loose but fits easy, the other darker lookin one fits real tight. The lower corner of the bolt is making good contact with the case head and the cartridge is stopping the force of the bolt pretty good (like putting a stick into the open mouth of an alligator), I'm just not seeing what should guide the tip of the cartridge up into the chamber. It seems kinda crazy that there is a square ledge right below the chamber for the tip of the bullet to run into in the first place.
Thanx GunHo for your advise, I will play with the feed lips also... BTW I live in Bradenton

[garya1961]

What you are saying doesn't make sense. You say the bolt doesn't pick the round up but it smashes it into the receiver. If it didn't pick up the round how could it smash it into anything?
I believe I know what you are trying to say though. You should pull the bolt all the way back and let it fly. The round should then just skip over the ledge you are referring to.
If you are using softpoint bullets then it will deform the nose. FALs are designed to shoot FMJ and don't do good with softpoint bullets.
If your mag has a little notch out where it locks up to the receiver it's a metric. If it has a wide tab welded to the mag where it locks up it's an inch mag.

[garya1961]

Originally Posted by GunHo198

I had the same problems. Fortunately I have two matching FALs and it did the same on both rifles. It was a bolt over jam where the bolt would slightly feed over the round, denting the case and jaming the round.

At first I thought it was the Receivers,as the mags were Brand New From Austria. Later I used some old 1940's original mags. And they both fed without issue. So I compared both mags with a micronometer wrench? And the new mags were off just a bit keeping the round lower than the original mags. So I got a set of needle nose and slowly opened them up at key points till they matched the original mags. Had to do this with about 12 mags.

Weapon feeds fine now. Do one mag at a time till it feeds right. Then move on to the next mag.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

That's not the problem gnepig described here.
Anyway I have never heard of an Austrian mag having problems. You must have another part out of specs and now you have a bunch of mags out of specs to match. Bolt ride over is usually caused by the bottom of the bolt being worn/rounded on the bottom where it picks up the round. Just file the bolt flat where it picks up the round and it's good to go. Also the ejector could be too high causing the bolt to ride up and over the round. Open the rifle up and slide the bolt and carrier back and forth over the ejector and see if it's hitting and raising the bolt up.
Austrian mags are NOS not brand new. They didn't make FAL mags in the 40s either.

[GunHo198]

So if the Austrian mags werent out of spec, then why did my rifle cycle fine with the original used mags and not the new mags? Grinding on hard to find parts like the bolt or ejector doesn't make much sense. Easier to check the mags and make sure there in spec.

How the mags fit into the mag well makes a big difference. My buddy has an imbel and his mags are loose as hell. Mine is an Entreprise Arms and they fit snug. The Australian mags are Parkarized and that makes them even tighter. This squeezes the rounds down away from the bolt. That's why I had to adjust the new mags to get the rounds to sit higher.

Pics would help.

I'll post pics for the OP tomarrow so he can see how they should sit.



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[garya1961]

Originally Posted by GunHo198

So if the Austrian mags werent out of spec, then why did my rifle cycle fine with the original used mags and not the new mags?

I'll post pics for the OP tomarrow so he can see how they should sit.


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Are you sure they are Austrian mags and not Korean? If they are Korean that would explain the problem with the feed lips. Surplus mags almost always work but the Korean and DSA mags have problems.

Quote "How the mags fit into the mag well makes a big difference. My buddy has an imbel and his mags are loose as hell. Mine is an Entreprise Arms and they fit snug. The Australian mags are Parkarized and that makes them even tighter. This squeezes the rounds down away from the bolt. That's why I had to adjust the new mags to get the rounds to sit higher."

If your receiver is sqeezing SURPLUS mags so hard it wont feed then it's your receiver out of specs and not the mags. Does it squeeze the mags from the sides or do you just have to smack them really hard on the bottom to get them to lock up? If you have to smack them hard to get them locked up then you ejector block may be sitting too high. The easy way to fix this is to file a little of the mag catch latch.
If it is squeezing the mags from the sides you need to open the magwell up.
Your buddies Imbel receiver may be cut for inch mags and that would make the metric mags loose.

gnepig as I said before try pulling the bolt all the way back and letting it fly. These rifles don't like being babied. Also make sure you are using surplus mags not Korean or DSA.

[GunHo198]

[garya1961]

Someone has opened up the rails in that receiver. Not a bad thing in my view but some frown on it. You shouldn't be able to see the center portion of the mag feed lips through the top of the receiver. That's a sign that someone has had feeding problems before if you didn't do it. It also looks like they may have went too far with it. The only problem it will cause if they went too far is the bolt will drop down between the rails when empty. I also see some brass shavings on your feed ramps. You could hit the very lightly with some fine sandpaper just enough to knock the sharp edge off. Also it's good to sand the sharp edge off the feed lips on the mag.
It may help gnepigs problem if he sand the sharp edges off the bottom of the rails in receiver where the cartridge pops up through.

[GunHo198]

Good eye.

Yes I opened up the rails. When I first had the issues I think I saw it on falfiles. Think it was gun plumber but not sure. It's been awhile. But doing the rails wasn't the issue. It was the tightness of the mags. Possible due to the Entreprise type 3 receivers not being 100% to spec. You get what you pay for. But by far, the pair are my most accurate rifles with iron sites. They shoot flawless now.

As far as the brass. My rifle extractors shred brass something fierce. Even cycling by hand, they dig into the cases and nick them bad leaving sharp edges on the case rims.

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[gnepig]

Sorry, the bolt is picking up the cartridge and slaming it into the ledge under the chamber, and smashes the tips on my fmj projectiles..
Sounds like I have inch mags in a inch gun...
Everything looks like I need to do what Gunho has done and what Gary has suggested with the mags and the reciever rails.

Thanx men I'll show pics when I can.

[garya1961]

Originally Posted by GunHo198

Good eye.

Yes I opened up the rails. When I first had the issues I think I saw it on falfiles. Think it was gun plumber but not sure. It's been awhile. But doing the rails wasn't the issue. It was the tightness of the mags. Possible due to the Entreprise type 3 receivers not being 100% to spec. You get what you pay for. But by far, the pair are my most accurate rifles with iron sites. They shoot flawless now.

As far as the brass. My rifle extractors shred brass something fierce. Even cycling by hand, they dig into the cases and nick them bad leaving sharp edges on the case rims.

Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

That would be ggiilliiee he recently passed away. Gunplumber didn't like ggiilliiee or his rail mod but I liked him and used his rail mod more than once.
FALs are rough on the brass but you can remove the sharp edges and tune the gas to eliminate most of the problem.
For the last six years I have been researching ,building and helping others build these rifles over the internet.

[garya1961]

Originally Posted by gnepig

Sorry, the bolt is picking up the cartridge and slaming it into the ledge under the chamber, and smashes the tips on my fmj projectiles..
Sounds like I have inch mags in a inch gun...
Everything looks like I need to do what Gunho has done and what Gary has suggested with the mags and the reciever rails.

Thanx men I'll show pics when I can.

Do you have this problem when you shoot it or just hand cycling?