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Old 02-11-2013, 22:06   #301
Osborne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
Totality of circumstances.

Killing two cops, the manifesto and wreaking havoc on innocent people is good enough to be classified as terrorism.


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And shooting unarmed American servicemen and women killing 12 of them shouting "Allah Akhbar" isn't? And doesn't Al Qaeda portrays him as a hero?
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Old 02-11-2013, 22:13   #302
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Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
No he can't.

I would elaborate but the thread would be closed, and I would either be banned or suspended for a while.

It's been made abundantly clear to me that free speech doesn't fly on Cop Talk.

You can PM me if you wish to have an uncensored conversation on the topic.


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You can have all the free speech you want. Just don't get upset when your flaws and inexperience get the best of you and you are called out on some of the stuff you spew.

I will pose to you the same question I do to all of the others: what do you do for a living and besides your two run ins with law enforcement lately; what is your experience?


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Old 02-11-2013, 22:14   #303
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Originally Posted by JDO View Post
And shooting unarmed American servicemen and women killing 12 of them shouting "Allah Akhbar" isn't? And doesn't Al Qaeda portrays him as a hero?
I don't know, I don't make those decisions. As far as I'm concerned theyre terrorists, but I'm just a lowly civil servant here in Ohio. What do I know?


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Old 02-11-2013, 22:18   #304
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You can have all the free speech you want. Just don't get upset when your flaws and inexperience get the best of you and you are called out on some of the stuff you spew.
You sir, have pushed me to make caramel corn for the next round!
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Old 02-11-2013, 22:18   #305
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I don't know, I don't make those decisions. As far as I'm concerned theyre terrorists, but I'm just a lowly civil servant here in Ohio. What do I know?


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Stop serving the government and its corrupt politicians?
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Old 02-11-2013, 22:22   #306
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Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
Stop serving the government and its corrupt politicians?
I thought I served the residents of my community?


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Old 02-11-2013, 22:22   #307
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You sir, have pushed me to make caramel corn for the next round!
It IS too easy sometimes.


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Old 02-11-2013, 22:23   #308
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no one starts working as a police officer to serve the government alone. You do it for the people living with that government. Sometimes it interferes sadly

/posted from my mobile phone probably while sitting on the toilet/
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Old 02-11-2013, 22:25   #309
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
I thought I served the residents of my community?


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I certainly hope you do. I have faith that you are one of the good guys. I'm sure that you are a good person and do your duty to the best of your ability.

It's discouraging to read what some officers have gone though with the politics of the job.

Hope you don't have to deal with that BS!

If I was an officer, I would want to work in a smaller department.

I can't imagine the politics that go on behind the scenes with the LAPD!


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Old 02-11-2013, 22:29   #310
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I'm also not a butler. I don't serve people. I do my job for MY community to the best of my ability and I do a pretty good job of it.

But you know what I do my damnedest.

I help people. I've located and shut the water main off of an elderly woman's house whose basement was flooding.

I then swept most of the water to a drain and then I even contacted a plumber for her.

She was an old widow whose husband did everything for her and his passing devastated her. She was truly shook up that something like this happened let alone at 230 am.

I didn't have to do that but ya know what, I was brought up differently.

I do more in twelve hours for people than you will do in your whole life.

Again, you don't know what you don't know. You're spewing the same BS cookie cutter statements that several others have used before you.

I'm about sick of your jabs at LE. We both know what you're doing and as far as I'm concerned, you can choke on it.



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Old 02-11-2013, 22:32   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
I certainly hope you do. I have faith that you are one of the good guys. I'm sure that you are a good person and do your duty to the best of your ability.

It's discouraging to read what some officers have gone though with the politics of the job.

Hope you don't have to deal with that BS!

If I was an officer, I would want to work in a smaller department.

I can't imagine the politics that go on behind the scenes with the LAPD!


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I would guess most of the corruption is mainly with large departments such as the LAPD its always a few bad apples ruining the bunch though I bet 99.9% are good officers if its the case of corruption.
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Old 02-11-2013, 22:33   #312
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
I'm also not a butler. I don't serve people. I do my job for MY community to the best of my ability and I do a pretty good job of it.

But you know what I do my damnedest.

I help people. I've located and shut the water main off of an elderly woman's house whose basement was flooding.

I then swept most of the water to a drain and then I even contacted a plumber for her.

She was an old widow whose husband did everything for her and his passing devastated her. She was truly shook up that something like this happened let alone at 230 am.

I didn't have to do that but ya know what, I was brought up differently.

I do more in twelve hours for people than you will do in your whole life.

Again, you don't know what you don't know. You're spewing the same BS cookie cutter statements that several others have used before you.

I'm about sick of your jabs at LE. We both know what you're doing and as far as I'm concerned, you can choke on it.



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You sound like a good guy. Like I said.


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Old 02-11-2013, 22:35   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
I certainly hope you do. I have faith that you are one of the good guys. I'm sure that you are a good person and do your duty to the best of your ability.

It's discouraging to read what some officers have gone though with the politics of the job.

Hope you don't have to deal with that BS!

If I was an officer, I would want to work in a smaller department.

I can't imagine the politics that go on behind the scenes with the LAPD!


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The politics are everywhere.
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Old 02-11-2013, 22:48   #314
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To some degree we will never know what set him off but I have seen people who were pushed and pushed and then they admitted to wanting to kill but never did it. Just wanting to kill does not mean "mental illness". It means that the person was "f'ed" with.
I tried to explain this to someone else. Maybe I can do a better this time.

Wanting to kill people is more common than most would like to admit. Odds are the person in traffic who you just cut off wants to kill you. I think 30-50% of America falls into this category at any point in time. Especially around election time.

Where it changes is when they are willing to die for their cause. Very few people fall into this category who are not at war..
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Old 02-11-2013, 22:51   #315
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Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
Stop serving the government and its corrupt politicians?
Law enforcement may be an extension of the government, but its sole purpose isn't to serve government and politicians, corrupt or not. Does it happen sometimes? Sure. But that is far from the purpose, despite what some people may claim. It's main purpose is to generally help people.

Maybe this analogy will help:

Your head's main purpose is to hold your eyes, ears, brain, etc., but that doesn't stop you from sticking it up your @$$ every now and then.
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Old 02-11-2013, 23:02   #316
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You think that someone in law enforcement who was caught filing a false official report should have been retained? It's an ethical issue.
It's an ethical issue, but for job retention, it's also a legal issue which has huge liability attached to it. The officer is useless for all purposes. He can't write a report, he can't testify, he can't do anything you need other than stand there and do nothing. Everything he is involved in is tainted.

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Cops who get "Brady'd" in our area are quickly sent away. Our chief made it clear that any officer caught in a Brady situation will be quickly dismissed.
Yep. Brady = No more LE job and that's the way it should be.

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OK, so if this is domestic terrorism, then why isn't the Fort Hood shooting that happened a few years back domestic terrorism? That's something I don't understand....

Are they just throwing around the word terrorism now?
Because that was politics. The Fort Hood shooting was political terrorism pure and simple but the politics at the time won't allow it.

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I don't see how killing two cops is terrorism, it's definitely not right and this guy should get what he deserves but why isnt every gang in cal considered terrorists? I hate these double standards. Shouldn't every gang that kills an officer be considered terrorist? And have trigger happy police and drone operators after them? I honestly think they should.

And sending drones after him? I bet they don't do that after every fallen officer. Something tells me there's more to this and they want this guy dead to cover their asses I guarantee he won't be taken alive.
Gangs in SoCal can be considered terrorists, see Penal Code 186.22 (street terrorism).

Cops don't go around looking to kill people, even cop killers. That's just Hollywood. People who talk like that have never had to put themselves in that situation where they have to make the life or death decisions you speak so cavalierly about.

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It's been made abundantly clear to me that free speech doesn't fly on Cop Talk.
Let me know when the government sponsors CT, then you can complain about your 1st Amendment rights.

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Originally Posted by JDO View Post
And shooting unarmed American servicemen and women killing 12 of them shouting "Allah Akhbar" isn't? And doesn't Al Qaeda portrays him as a hero?
I'm sure Al Jazzera and those dancing Muslims in Palestine were singing his praises. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
If I was an officer, I would want to work in a smaller department.

I can't imagine the politics that go on behind the scenes with the LAPD!
You have no idea of the politics behind a smaller department compared to a large department. You have nowhere to hide in a smaller department and a lot of guys wish they had the options and anonymity of a larger department.
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Old 02-11-2013, 23:14   #317
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Some have noted an apparent contradiction: that Dorner's crimes have been called Domestic Terrorism while the Fort Hood shooting was not defined as terrorism, Domestic or otherwise.

Keep in mind that it was officials from the City of Los Angeles who described Dorner's actions as Domestic Terrorism.

No one from the United States government has applied that term. Dorner is presently charged with murder. The US Attorney's Office has not filed terrorism charges and I doubt the FBI opened a DT investigation. The FBI case will likely be worked as a fugitive investigation or as domestic police cooperation.

Now, if the US government starts calling Dorner a terrorist, then you can question whether it is applying a double standard.

LAPD Chief Beck and the LA mayor can call it whatever they want, they do not speak for the US government, they are municipal officials.

Now, all that said, I think you can make a good argument that both Dorner's and Hassan's crimes could fit the definition of terrorism.

From a prosecutorial standpoint, it would be easier to prove the elements of terrorism in the Dorner case, simply because he overtly stated his intent with the Manifesto: He promised to use force and violence to effect political change. That gives the prosecution direct evidence of intent.

Hassan did not overtly state his intent, so you'd have to prove his terrorist intent with circumstantial evidence, which is possible, but tougher to do.

From a psychological standpoint, however, I would bet that both Dorner and Hassan are driven to violence more from internal demons and mental issues than from any "cause". Their cause, I suspect, is most likely just a way to justify what they want to do, which is to kill people.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:57   #318
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Gee, did Louis Farakhan write that? Glad I didn't have to kill a tree to read that garbage.


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Old 02-12-2013, 01:57   #319
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Some have noted an apparent contradiction: that Dorner's crimes have been called Domestic Terrorism while the Fort Hood shooting was not defined as terrorism, Domestic or otherwise.

Keep in mind that it was officials from the City of Los Angeles who described Dorner's actions as Domestic Terrorism.

No one from the United States government has applied that term. Dorner is presently charged with murder. The US Attorney's Office has not filed terrorism charges and I doubt the FBI opened a DT investigation. The FBI case will likely be worked as a fugitive investigation or as domestic police cooperation.

Now, if the US government starts calling Dorner a terrorist, then you can question whether it is applying a double standard.

LAPD Chief Beck and the LA mayor can call it whatever they want, they do not speak for the US government, they are municipal officials.

Now, all that said, I think you can make a good argument that both Dorner's and Hassan's crimes could fit the definition of terrorism.

From a prosecutorial standpoint, it would be easier to prove the elements of terrorism in the Dorner case, simply because he overtly stated his intent with the Manifesto: He promised to use force and violence to effect political change. That gives the prosecution direct evidence of intent.

Hassan did not overtly state his intent, so you'd have to prove his terrorist intent with circumstantial evidence, which is possible, but tougher to do.

From a psychological standpoint, however, I would bet that both Dorner and Hassan are driven to violence more from internal demons and mental issues than from any "cause". Their cause, I suspect, is most likely just a way to justify what they want to do, which is to kill people.
The Fort Hood shooting massacre was thoroughly investigated and deemed nothing more than simply work place violence.............. This prevented any further anxiety or angst in the Middle East, which could have only led to angry protests at our embassy.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:02   #320
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Dang !
You get the feeling.
That, the California ex- Cop shooter Mr. Dorner, whose still on the run, 02/12/2013, is monitoring this forum ?
If so, this is where he could voice his side of the story !!!!


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Old 02-12-2013, 03:23   #321
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Originally Posted by JDO View Post
I don't see how killing two cops is terrorism, it's definitely not right and this guy should get what he deserves but why isnt every gang in cal considered terrorists? I hate these double standards. Shouldn't every gang that kills an officer be considered terrorist? And have trigger happy police and drone operators after them? I honestly think they should.

And sending drones after him? I bet they don't do that after every fallen officer. Something tells me there's more to this and they want this guy dead to cover their asses I guarantee he won't be taken alive.
The tin foil is strong in this one.


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Old 02-12-2013, 04:50   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlowe View Post
From a prosecutorial standpoint, it would be easier to prove the elements of terrorism in the Dorner case, simply because he overtly stated his intent with the Manifesto: He promised to use force and violence to effect political change. That gives the prosecution direct evidence of intent.
I move to change my statement. He stated in his writing that he was attempting to change the culture within the LAPD. I can't speak for CA (I didn't find any statutes for terrorism), but here in AZ that would meet the elements of the crime for terrorism. The US code seems to have some seemingly missing "or's" and I'm not sure what cases have been decided using the definition that would clarify what the court accepts.
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:20   #323
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Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
I certainly hope you do. I have faith that you are one of the good guys. I'm sure that you are a good person and do your duty to the best of your ability.

It's discouraging to read what some officers have gone though with the politics of the job.

Hope you don't have to deal with that BS!

If I was an officer, I would want to work in a smaller department.

I can't imagine the politics that go on behind the scenes with the LAPD!


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Politics can be worse at smaller departments.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:02   #324
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I do not remotely work in the judicial system, but,to ALL you LEO's out there. I'm sure you have heard it a hundred, if not a thousand times, but I am grateful for what you folks do everyday. I thank you as I would thank our service men and women, you guys are called to do no less than they. I have travel to many countries and I am proud to say that our LEO's are probably some of the most highly trained and professional men and women in the world. You guys will get that broke dick dog, rest assured, there is no doubt in my mind. Again, thank you for your service.
Thank you. I(we) appreciate your kind words.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:07   #325
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I do not remotely work in the judicial system, but,to ALL you LEO's out there. I'm sure you have heard it a hundred, if not a thousand times, but I am grateful for what you folks do everyday. I thank you as I would thank our service men and women, you guys are called to do no less than they. I have travel to many countries and I am proud to say that our LEO's are probably some of the most highly trained and professional men and women in the world. You guys will get that broke dick dog, rest assured, there is no doubt in my mind. Again, thank you for your service.
Thanks man, I (we) appreciate the support.
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