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Old 02-08-2013, 19:35   #126
Taphius
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Originally Posted by mongo356 View Post
ORLY?? Copied it close enough to get sued like S&W did?



Captured a large overseas military market, an LE market in the U.S.A. that he still has more than 65% of and seems to hold that position well. All of which made him very wealthy and at the same time really po's most JMB fans. Created ONE firearm that still draws more controversy/ attention than most domestic brands.



I'm sorry did you read 1911 somewhere in my post? But to answer your question I haven’t seen any combat or combat1911's in use, just the custom models that seem to be the rage these days.
The hi power, BAR, and 1911 aren't/weren't weapons used by large LE and military agencies?

Browning invented how weapons functioned. Far different than putting a parts kit together in a plastic frame like glock


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Old 02-08-2013, 19:44   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mongo356 View Post
ORLY?? Copied it close enough to get sued like S&W did?



Captured a large overseas military market, an LE market in the U.S.A. that he still has more than 65% of and seems to hold that position well. All of which made him very wealthy and at the same time really po's most JMB fans. Created ONE firearm that still draws more controversy/ attention than most domestic brands.



I'm sorry did you read 1911 somewhere in my post? But to answer your question I haven’t seen any combat or combat1911's in use, just the custom models that seem to be the rage these days.
1. what exactly does that have to do with glock being innovative? Just because someone copies your design doesnt mean that you are the extreme innovator. Look at automotive industry lawsuits. Glock has certainly done its fair share of copying, this argument goes nowhere.

2. Glock has a large market share of LE guns because they but the old ones at a generous price, offer cheap accesories, and will sell them cheaper than anyone else. It has nothing to do with being the best on the market, simply the cheapest.

3. You didnt mention 1911s? what about:
Quote:
They were also specialized and somewhat difficult, they kept gun smiths in work for a lot of years. You could possibly rob parts from another gun and maybe it would work, maybe it would take some craftsmanship to fit the part to make it work reliably.
I guess you were referring to the Ma Duece there, huh?

Also, if you cant think of a single combat useage of the m1911a1 than the just proves your absolute ignorance of this topic. Everyone else here is having a hell of a laugh at the expense of your stupidity, and it just gets better every time you post.
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Old 02-08-2013, 19:50   #128
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The striker fired pistol design dates to around 1900. As was said polymer had been used in handguns for over a decade before glock came around. It's no comparison.
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Old 02-08-2013, 19:54   #129
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Originally Posted by ilgunguygt View Post
Except glock copied the striker fired/polymer thing. Maybe you vcould tell us what glock did FIRST, before everyone else?You seem to be of the opinion that a 1911 is a super finicky and difficult firearm. In its combat form this couldnt be further from the truth.
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1. what exactly does that have to do with glock being innovative? Just because someone copies your design doesnt mean that you are the extreme innovator. Look at automotive industry lawsuits. Glock has certainly done its fair share of copying, this argument goes nowhere.

2. Glock has a large market share of LE guns because they but the old ones at a generous price, offer cheap accesories, and will sell them cheaper than anyone else. It has nothing to do with being the best on the market, simply the cheapest.

3. You didnt mention 1911s? what about:


I guess you were referring to the Ma Duece there, huh?

Also, if you cant think of a single combat useage of the m1911a1 than the just proves your absolute ignorance of this topic. Everyone else here is having a hell of a laugh at the expense of your stupidity, and it just gets better every time you post.
Please refer to post #113

JMB is awesome. Have a nice day.
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Old 02-08-2013, 19:57   #130
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Striker fired action from a 1930's Dreyse pistol


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Old 02-08-2013, 21:46   #131
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Hard to believe someone is really trying to debate if favor of GG. Talk about an open and shut case.

If JMB and GG were in the prison shower.....well GG would have some soapy hands trying to pick up that bar of Zest if you know what I mean.....
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Old 02-08-2013, 23:15   #132
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mongo356 View Post

Browning’s designs were good.
Yes they are/were.

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Originally Posted by mongo356 View Post
They were also specialized
Every firearm is specialized.

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Originally Posted by mongo356 View Post
and somewhat difficult,
Difficult in what way?

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Originally Posted by mongo356 View Post
they kept gun smiths in work for a lot of years.
Which designs kept the 'smiths busy, and why, exactly?

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Originally Posted by mongo356 View Post
You could possibly rob parts from another gun.
The fact is that it can be done,

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Originally Posted by mongo356 View Post
and maybe it would work,
It would work.

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Originally Posted by mongo356 View Post
maybe it would take some craftsmanship to fit the part to make it work reliably.
Military small arms have meet the toughest tests for reliability in the harshest conditions. They have be soldier proof. Parts have to interchange. Parts have to work from one weapon to the next. In short, military weapons have to work. John Browning designed a lot of military weapons that have served for decades and many wars.
Where do you come up with your ideas about firearms? Are you reading something that's factually wrong? Are you just making things up as you go along?
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Old 02-09-2013, 00:11   #133
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there any company left that's not trying to make a Glock like polymer/striker style gun?
The problem with that contention is that every company copying Glock is also copying JMB, since the entire short recoil locked breech tilt barrel action the Glock uses was a JMB principle.
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Old 02-09-2013, 00:26   #134
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The problem with that contention is that every company copying Glock is also copying JMB, since the entire short recoil locked breech tilt barrel action the Glock uses was a JMB principle.
Shhhh, don't go using common sense on him, that wont work!
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:29   #135
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Where do you come up with your ideas about firearms? Are you reading something that's factually wrong? Are you just making things up as you go along?
The guy is clearly a couple cans short of a 6-pack...

Somehow, he seems to think this a 1911 vs Glock debate, which is not the case.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:36   #136
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The guy is clearly a couple cans short of a 6-pack...

Somehow, he seems to think this a 1911 vs Glock debate, which is not the case.
EXACTLY! The 1911, while many consider the greatest handgun ever, really wasnt JMBs greatest accompishment. His machine guns and his cartridge is still the BEST in use today by military.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:36   #137
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Now, Gaston Glock:
Henry Ford did not invent the horseless carriage, but he DID invent a way to make the horseless carriage affordable and accessible to most workers.

That is a type of genius not to be dismissed.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:48   #138
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Henry Ford did not invent the horseless carriage, but he DID invent a way to make the horseless carriage affordable and accessible to most workers.

That is a type of genius not to be dismissed.
Guns were affordable and accessible well before Gaston Glock ever considered getting into the gun business.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:21   #139
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I'll end this right now- George Kellgren is the true father of precision firearms production.


LOL !!!! Wonder how many of you are checking Wikipedia right now?





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Old 02-09-2013, 11:53   #140
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Welcome to Glock Talk. You hit a nerve one your third post. Glaston Glock was able to bring several technologies together at the right time.

Glock is running the risk that old gun maker in the past have done such as Colt and Winchester. What have they done new? Colt had the 1911 market for decades and made the same gun the same way. They still don't checker the front strap or put in a decent trigger. You can buy a drop in trigger assembly from more than one manufacture. Maybe Colt should just buy them and put them in.

The point is Colt sat on their design while other past them buy. Look what Glock competition is doing. They are out "Glocking" Glock with their new pistols.

Many people have asked for a single stack Glock. Notice how many other pistols are offered in single stack? Now if Glock brings one out they lost those sales.

The world is full of one hit wonders, Debbie Boone and for younger GT'er the Magaraina*. If Glock doesn't get off their duff they will be a one hit gun maker.

As for John M Browning, he did more to preserve freedom for this country with his gun designs that we should have he birthday off instead of Columbus or MLK day. If I have read it right, he never charged the US government royalties for his patents. He thought it was his duty to his country.


* I have know idea of the correct spelling.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:02   #141
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Uh...NO.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:26   #142
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If I have read it right, he never charged the US government royalties for his patents. He thought it was his duty to his country.
He did charge them but it was an incredibly low amount. Not even covering his development costs. His brother Val questioned him about the contract for the BAR and John's defense was that if they were a few years younger it would be "them over there in the mud". Speaking of WWI.

It was more important to get the weapons to the troops than make a profit. He made his money on sporting arms and licensing military patents to our allies.

If you are ever in Ogden, Utah go to the Browning Museum.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:43   #143
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Wyoming I may be wrong but I believe it was John C. Garand who never charged the US Govt for the use of his patents.
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Old 02-09-2013, 15:20   #144
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In 1980 the Austrian Military decides to upgrade their aging Walther P38 and specified 17 criteria for a replacement pistol. Gaston Glock had extensive experience with polymers but little in firearm design or manufacturing. But in three months he managed to design and produce a G17 prototype that later became the 1982 Austrian military/police service pistol and radically change the handgun industry.

In my book, Mr. Glock is one freaking smart fellow.

Is he in the prolific design class of John Browning, obviously not.

I think only a genius can distinguish between transcendent intellectual aptitudes from just ordinary focused intelligence, so I'll respectfully refrain from making a "genius" designation and defer that honor to others.
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Old 02-09-2013, 16:23   #145
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In 1980 the Austrian Military decides to upgrade their aging Walther P38 and specified 17 criteria for a replacement pistol. Gaston Glock had extensive experience with polymers but little in firearm design or manufacturing. But in three months he managed to design and produce a G17 prototype that later became the 1982 Austrian military/police service pistol and radically change the handgun industry.

In my book, Mr. Glock is one freaking smart fellow.

Is he in the prolific design class of John Browning, obviously not.

I think only a genius can distinguish between transcendent intellectual aptitudes from just ordinary focused intelligence, so I'll respectfully refrain from making a "genius" designation and defer that honor to others.
And the bolded part answers the question
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Old 02-09-2013, 17:14   #146
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What next, a thread on whether Superman can beat up Batman?
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Old 02-09-2013, 17:52   #147
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What next, a thread on whether Superman can beat up Batman?
Superman gave Batman some Kryptonite as he trusted him fully and wanted to make sure that if he ever went crazy someone on Earth could stop him. So yeah Batman could indeed beat up Superman if he used the supplied Kryptonite

Otherwise Batman is getting smashed to a degree. Of course Batman did take down the Hulk that one time.
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Old 02-09-2013, 18:36   #148
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And the bolded part answers the question
Was this even a fair comparison?

I was just making the point that Mr. Glock and his team were restricted by the criteria set by the Austrian military. Working within these parameters he produced a remarkable piece of machinery; especially since this was his first pistol. Beginners luck or what?
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Old 02-09-2013, 18:37   #149
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I view Glock much like Apple. Took a lot of ideas from other items and combined them into a good product. Except Apple has more mark up.

They both pretty much sit on the design that made them successful and are failing to innovate further.

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Old 02-09-2013, 19:43   #150
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Beginners luck and a very smart man.

If he was a true designer, the internal design of a glock would have evolved. Designers will never satisfy with one design.

Gaston and JMB are not in the same classification.


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