Has capitalsim become cannibalistic?

MaxxAction · 03-27-2013, 17:39

Hey all...

I want to preface my question by clarifying that I am what would be considered a "capitalist" in the most rudimentary sense. I own my own business, and use the profits and proceeds from that business to provide a certain standard of living for my family.

That being said, I came to the conclusion several years ago that governments no longer run the world, uber capitalist corporations do. I watched a film today called "OBEY" which was quite compelling. You can find it on youtube.

While I don't agree with everything the guy had to say, there were some very strong truths contained in the film. He goes through how advertising rhetoric and propaganda has been employed by governments, mainly since world war II to shape minds, and contour world views to favor collectivism. One of the quotes from it:

"Capitalism is a revolutionary force that consumes greater and greater numbers of human lives, until finally it consumes itself; leaving nothing but a dead zone."

So, the title is the question, has capitalism become canniblistic?

Glock20 10mm · 03-27-2013, 17:45

Cronyism is cannibalistic. Capitalism not so much... if you kill your profit production then you eventually kill your self. The problem is not capitalism but the unbridled abuse of capitalism.

Atlas · 03-27-2013, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glock20 10mm

Cronyism is cannibalistic. Capitalism not so much... if you kill your profit production then you eventually kill your self. The problem is not capitalism but the unbridled abuse of capitalism.

I agree.
I would phrase that last sentence though "the unbridled corruption of capitalism".

MaxxAction · 03-27-2013, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlas

I agree.
I would phrase that last sentence though "the unbridled corruption of capitalism".

i tend to agree...

capitalism, in it's purest form, is the only real means by which people can ascend from poverty.

RonS · 03-27-2013, 18:02

The problem is when power is unbalanced. The people need to agree on some reasonable limitations in the form of regulations and laws but the limitations need to be limited themselves. Too much regulation and people suffer from lack of competition, lack of choices and high prices. In time it becomes hard to get a job because the regulatory burden is so extreme that only a fool would employ a single person more than necessary, even at the cost of turning away business. (See Spain.) Too little and you get fraud in the marketplace and abuse in the workplace. Think company barracks, company police and company stores and wages paid in company scrip.

The other problem is when the two get too cozy, big business and big government. As someone said, "When three capitalists in the same business get together, the first thing they discuss is how to get the government to keep everyone else out." Think NEA, bar association, AMA and other supposedly self regulating/ licensing associations.

MaxxAction · 03-27-2013, 18:09

Quote:

As someone said, "When three capitalists in the same business get together, the first thing they discuss is how to get the government to keep everyone else out." Think NEA, bar association, AMA and other supposedly self regulating/ licensing associations

Boy that aint no joke...

I recently relocated to another state, and sought (and finally acquired) licensure in our current location. Although I had held license in two other states for 16 years without one infraction, complaint, or charge against my license, they made me jump through every hoop in the book to get my license here.

They gave no guidance on what would be on the tests I had to take, and no consideration for my previous track record of good professional behavior. I basically had to go through everything a noob in our industry would have to to get licensed.

Khao · 03-27-2013, 18:27

Real capitalists are willing to club their own mother with a pool stick for 2 dollars. If you aren't willing to do that, I got news for you... YOU'RE A COMMUNIST.

Right Atlas? Certifiedfunds?

Ironbar · 03-27-2013, 18:33

Read the book 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand. You'll have no more questions after that.

USMCsilver · 03-27-2013, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironbar

Read the book 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand. You'll have no more questions after that.

Watched Part I on Netflix; awaiting Part II.

Glocksanity · 03-27-2013, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironbar

Read the book 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand. You'll have no more questions after that.

Ayn was a bit wrong. Way wrong as a matter of fact.

Industrialists didn't go Galt. They went to third world countries to play the labor arbitrage game. They kept their profits off shore. They captured government. They became to big to fail and actually used the government to privatize profits and socialize losses. The industrialists actually ended up sucking from the government teat more than the people.

The middle class got screwed by the collusion between Wall Street and Washington D.C. Fascism took over and the wealthy got wealthier while the middle class got raped. The poor got their handouts and America is on the precipice of collapse.

Rinse and repeat.

Sorry Ayn, you missed it totally.

podwich · 03-27-2013, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khao

Real capitalists are willing to club their own mother with a pool stick for 2 dollars. If you aren't willing to do that, I got news for you... YOU'RE A COMMUNIST.

Right Atlas? Certifiedfunds?

How the hell do you think clubbing your mother is a good investment? Maybe you really don't like her? Maybe you should get some counseling.

Khao · 03-27-2013, 20:12

Hahahaha

Khao · 03-27-2013, 20:30

I don't know when this whole "American dream" thing became so unappealing to me.. what point in my life. These material things... we can't take them with us, but in this society it's the material things that define us. Determine status, your peer group, etc.

I'd rather know I spent my life fostering healthy relationships with people.. being a good friend, a good son... going out of my way to help others.

When I die I want them to say... "Theres a guy who never betrayed his friends, and stuck to his principles" instead of "Wonder whose gonna get the mercedes?"

malvina reynolds - little boxes - YouTube

certifiedfunds · 03-27-2013, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khao

I don't know when this whole "American dream" thing became so unappealing to me.. what point in my life. These material things... we can't take them with us, but in this society it's the material things that define us. Determine status, your peer group, etc.

I'd rather know I spent my life fostering healthy relationships with people.. being a good friend, a good son... going out of my way to help others.

When I die I want them to say... "Theres a guy who never betrayed his friends, and stuck to his principles" instead of "Wonder whose gonna get the mercedes?"

malvina reynolds - little boxes - YouTube

It is interesting that you see it as an either or proposition.

You ever walk around a large hospital or university and notice the names on buildings and wings? Ever wonder how they get there?

I believe you said you were only 25. Churchill was right. You'll learn eventually.

certifiedfunds · 03-27-2013, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khao

Real capitalists are willing to club their own mother with a pool stick for 2 dollars. If you aren't willing to do that, I got news for you... YOU'RE A COMMUNIST.

Right Atlas? Certifiedfunds?

You embarrassed yourself once. Do you really want to drag it to another thread?

Khao · 03-27-2013, 20:43

Hey man I'm not trying to start anything. You want to club your own mother with a pool stick? That's YOUR prerogative and none of our business. We're cool here. We're cool.

DanaT · 03-27-2013, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khao

When I die I want them to say... "Theres a guy who never betrayed his friends, and stuck to his principles" instead of "Wonder whose gonna get the mercedes?"

Ahhh. Someone wants a Mercedes I see...

podwich · 03-27-2013, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khao

Hey man I'm not trying to start anything. You want to club your own mother with a pool stick? That's YOUR prerogative and none of our business. We're cool here. We're cool.

And I can't think of a single capitalist who would club their mother for $2. As you thought this up, I'd wonder about your mental status.

podwich · 03-27-2013, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khao

I don't know when this whole "American dream" thing became so unappealing to me.. what point in my life. These material things... we can't take them with us, but in this society it's the material things that define us. Determine status, your peer group, etc.

I'd rather know I spent my life fostering healthy relationships with people.. being a good friend, a good son... going out of my way to help others.

When I die I want them to say... "Theres a guy who never betrayed his friends, and stuck to his principles" instead of "Wonder whose gonna get the mercedes?"

malvina reynolds - little boxes - YouTube

If your "pursuit of happiness" involves what you mention above, cool for you. Why do you show disdain for others preferring something else? Who pissed in your Cheerios? What do you have against the blue-collar workers building Mercedes or making steel?

And I really hope you can support yourself on whatever you choose to do--it's incredibly hypocritical to complain about others making money while you go about making your living by voting for government to steal from them and give to you (and I'd include unequal taxation with that, of course).

Khao · 03-27-2013, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaT

Ahhh. Someone wants a Mercedes I see...

Naw, I'm a man of simple tastes. I have good friends who accommodate my disability, a great mother who raised me right and whom I talk to daily, a car that drives just fine to and from the grocery store, the occasional doobie to dull my pain and get rid of the spasms, a quirky dog that brings endless hours of joy into my life.

I'm perfectly content right now.

Khao · 03-27-2013, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by podwich

If your "pursuit of happiness" involves what you mention above, cool for you. Why do you show disdain for others preferring something else? Who pissed in your Cheerios? What do you have against the blue-collar workers building Mercedes or making steel?

And I really hope you can support yourself on whatever you choose to do--it's incredibly hypocritical to complain about others making money while you go about making your living by voting for government to steal from them and give to you (and I'd include unequal taxation with that, of course).

Sorry man, I didn't mean to give you the impression I was slagging those off who choose to participate. Just ain't for me.

DanaT · 03-27-2013, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khao

Naw man I'm a man of simple tastes. I have good friends who accommodate my disability, a great mother who raised me right and whom I talk to daily, a car that drives just fine to and from the grocery store, the occasional doobie to dull my pain and get rid of the spasms, a quirky dog that brings endless hours of joy into my life.

I'm perfectly content right now.

Wow.

So reading this, you live off the public dole on disability and smoke weed.

Its all very clear now.

OctoberRust · 03-27-2013, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by certifiedfunds

It is interesting that you see it as an either or proposition.

You ever walk around a large hospital or university and notice the names on buildings and wings? Ever wonder how they get there?

I believe you said you were only 25. Churchill was right. You'll learn eventually.

oh come on man. I'm 24. His age is no excuse why he's a brainless socialist.

***.264 magnum*** · 03-27-2013, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khao

I don't know when this whole "American dream" thing became so unappealing to me.. what point in my life. These material things... we can't take them with us, but in this society it's the material things that define us. Determine status, your peer group, etc.

I'd rather know I spent my life fostering healthy relationships with people.. being a good friend, a good son... going out of my way to help others.

When I die I want them to say... "Theres a guy who never betrayed his friends, and stuck to his principles" instead of "Wonder whose gonna get the mercedes?"

malvina reynolds - little boxes - YouTube

1. Send me whatever stuff you don't want.
2. After moving on to the great commune in the sky you won't remember your relationships either.

OctoberRust · 03-27-2013, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khao

Real capitalists are willing to club their own mother with a pool stick for 2 dollars. If you aren't willing to do that, I got news for you... YOU'RE A COMMUNIST.

Right Atlas? Certifiedfunds?

uh, you really don't understand that risk to reward thing do you?

There's this thing we investors use. It's called risk to reward. I've discussed before how morals are subjective, and my family's lives are priceless. Yet I'm about as pro-capitalistic as you can get.

When someone makes money in a truly free market, they do a combination of

1. creating jobs
2. creating a product or service that's cheaper/more efficient