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Old 02-06-2013, 06:27   #41
DOC44
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Political Issues

Thank goodness of the 2A.... I'm gonna need a bigger gun safe to keep my peronal and home defense.

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Last edited by DOC44; 02-06-2013 at 06:54..
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:38   #42
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I wish I were smart enough to produce that answer. But I know what the answer ISN'T - it ISN'T allowing a "high ranking official" the final determination on life or death. I'm a simple man, but I don't see the authority for any one man to determine that.

When the military is the "high ranking official", and something resembling proof of a clear and present danger is presented, I'll agree. Until then, allowing some unnamed Washington official the authority to terminate makes me queasy.
I agree completely. Giving some crook in DC the job of judge, jury, and executioner is a complete and total violation of our right to due process.

Also, their definition of a "threat" will change over time, and their enforcement areas will eventually include US soil.
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Last edited by Fear Night; 02-06-2013 at 06:39..
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:25   #43
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I always thought the military was strictly subordinate to the civilian authorities in America, and that was a goods thing, even when you fob't particularly like the current civilian authority.

Was there this sort of fuss when US citizens were being detained indefinitely without trial, charges, or representation? I don't recall it, maybe I wasn't here yet.

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Old 02-06-2013, 08:27   #44
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I always thought the military was strictly subordinate to the civilian authorities in America, and that was a goods thing, even when you fob't particularly like the current civilian authority.

Was there this sort of fuss when US citizens were being detained indefinitely without trial, charges, or representation? I don't recall it, maybe I wasn't here yet.

Randy

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Apparently, you weren't here yet... Though admittedly, many here were OK with that too.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:26   #45
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:27   #46
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Those guys were enemy combatants on foreign soil. I am very glad that al-Awlaki is dead. Might have something to do with one of his followers killing a friend of mine and 12 other people.
Killing terrorists is a good thing, American terrorists deserve it even more than the foreign ones, but I think there should be some kind of review from outside the Executive before it's done.

Maybe have a panel of judges that aren't accountable to Obama to ensure there is sufficient evidence and justification before going ahead with a strike?

I don't know, the whole idea makes me uneasy, but having said that, I have to admit killing those guys makes a lot of sense and makes me feel all warm inside.

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Old 02-06-2013, 10:16   #47
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But, but...... it's okay to kill American citizens with no due process. So says over half the members here!
The NDAA already gives them that ability, effectively.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:21   #48
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This is what happens to mortar teams that try to attack those places

Predator Strike video - YouTube
I bet they don't have enough guts to try that again.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:49   #49
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Wow, some of you really leave me at a loss.

We are all aware the government is trying and would like to see us disarmed, correct?

Why do you give the power to kill any American citizen, whether they be on foriegn or domestic soil, to the man that wants to disarm us? Do you understand how stupid that is?

One minute your defending the 2A, "the guvment cant take my gunz", next minute your justifying the power of the government to kill anyone they deem a 'terrorist'. You do realise that DHS expanded domestic terrorist threats to include veterans, gun owners, survivalists, Libertarians, gold buyers, CCW holders, NRA members and even homeschoolers.( I can provide links)

Don't you get it? Everyone on this forum today could be considered a terrorist and killed by a drone by a stroke of Barry's pen!

Neocons are just as responsible for the gov't trying to disarm us the Liberals. You keep giving it power to kill us, but you trust the government you claim to be inefficient and corrupt, to do the right thing and just kill Muslims right?
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:24   #50
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Wow, some of you really leave me at a loss.

We are all aware the government is trying and would like to see us disarmed, correct?

Why do you give the power to kill any American citizen, whether they be on foriegn or domestic soil, to the man that wants to disarm us? Do you understand how stupid that is?

One minute your defending the 2A, "the guvment cant take my gunz", next minute your justifying the power of the government to kill anyone they deem a 'terrorist'. You do realise that DHS expanded domestic terrorist threats to include veterans, gun owners, survivalists, Libertarians, gold buyers, CCW holders, NRA members and even homeschoolers.( I can provide links)

Don't you get it? Everyone on this forum today could be considered a terrorist and killed by a drone by a stroke of Barry's pen!

Neocons are just as responsible for the gov't trying to disarm us the Liberals. You keep giving it power to kill us, but you trust the government you claim to be inefficient and corrupt, to do the right thing and just kill Muslims right?


Would you like to tell me what historical precedent there is for dealing with turncoats who are conspiring with the enemy on foreign soil???

What would you have us do, risk the lives of Special Forces troops to conduct a Bin-laden snatch mission to make sure a turncoat gets back here for due process?

Just let them go about their way and let them help our enemies?

Put them on trial in absentia so that they and the rest of the world knows we are on to them and they have plenty of time to disappear?

These aren't the first turncoats in the history of our Country that got whacked, we are just using an new technology to do it and it's getting more publicity.

No I am not afraid of it being used on citizens in the US. I am safe, they couldn't get through the swarm of black helicopters constantly hovering over my house
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:14   #51
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Would you like to tell me what historical precedent there is for dealing with turncoats who are conspiring with the enemy on foreign soil???

What would you have us do, risk the lives of Special Forces troops to conduct a Bin-laden snatch mission to make sure a turncoat gets back here for due process?

Just let them go about their way and let them help our enemies?

Put them on trial in absentia so that they and the rest of the world knows we are on to them and they have plenty of time to disappear?


These aren't the first turncoats in the history of our Country that got whacked, we are just using an new technology to do it and it's getting more publicity.

No I am not afraid of it being used on citizens in the US. I am safe, they couldn't get through the swarm of black helicopters constantly hovering over my house
If you trust the government to always do the right thing and never abuse it's power, then your naivte and ignorance is off the charts.

So you support Obama killing US citizens? Obama?

If it is never to be used against normal citizens, why are gun owners, ccw holders, and preppers considered terrorist threats by DHS?

Keep giving your rights and freedom away to feel safe, and I'm sure your shepherds will never use it against you.


Actually, pretty soon, your ignorance will begin to not only effect you, but everyone in this country, but by all means, lets give our rights to Obama and shred our COTUS.

Were you born an Authoritarian toolbox, or did you have to work at it?

Last edited by EOS; 02-06-2013 at 14:17..
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:48   #52
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If you trust the government to always do the right thing and never abuse it's power, then your naivte and ignorance is off the charts.

So you support Obama killing US citizens? Obama?

If it is never to be used against normal citizens, why are gun owners, ccw holders, and preppers considered terrorist threats by DHS?

Keep giving your rights and freedom away to feel safe, and I'm sure your shepherds will never use it against you.


Actually, pretty soon, your ignorance will begin to not only effect you, but everyone in this country, but by all means, lets give our rights to Obama and shred our COTUS.

Were you born an Authoritarian toolbox, or did you have to work at it?

I can't decide whether you are just some free-for-all hippie who is upset because traitors got killed or a tin-foil hatter afraid he is going to be next.

Guys like you are truly hilarious, You have grown up in the system we have, you have had all the benefits and taken advantage of all of them.

Here you are exercising your First Amendment right and you are upset because traitor, working with repressive enemies of that right, got killed.

You hunker down in some self built intellectual bunker and claim that everybody else doesn't love freedom as much as you do. You are "Special"

I don't trust the Government, and specifically not Obama's version, but killing traitors nested with the enemy is not exactly a new invention. Waging war is waging war no mater who is in the WH and I am actually, backhandedly rather pleased that he took the step to whack a traitor or two.

Is your problem that you somehow think the folks that got wacked were hero's ?
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:19   #53
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I can't decide whether you are just some free-for-all hippie who is upset because traitors got killed or a tin-foil hatter afraid he is going to be next.

Guys like you are truly hilarious, You have grown up in the system we have, you have had all the benefits and taken advantage of all of them.

Here you are exercising your First Amendment right and you are upset because traitor, working with repressive enemies of that right, got killed.

You hunker down in some self built intellectual bunker and claim that everybody else doesn't love freedom as much as you do. You are "Special"


I don't trust the Government, and specifically not Obama's version, but killing traitors nested with the enemy is not exactly a new invention. Waging war is waging war no mater who is in the WH and I am actually, backhandedly rather pleased that he took the step to whack a traitor or two.

Is your problem that you somehow think the folks that got wacked were hero's ?
The hippie and tin foil hat bit is a little tired, frankly.

I don't claim to hold any intellectual advantage over anyone, being informed differs from being intelligent.

I have my principles and I stick to them, my understanding of this country's original intent and freedom differs from yours.

I've never taken one cent from any government fund or program.

However, I am robbed of the fruits of my labor in order to pay for leeches who wont work, medicare and a social security system I will never see any benefits from because they will be long bankrupted and insolvent by the time I become able to recieve them. I have been enslaved to debt for the rest of my forseeable future, of which will probably be in economic ruin because of the cancerous federal government spending. The money I haven't converted to hard assets will be worthless eventually thanks to the central bank.

All while the Feds try to disarm me and say it's ok to raid my home without a warrant and kill me because I'm a prepper, gun owner or ccw holder.

News flash big guy, this system isn't so great, it is a corrupt and dying whore.
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Old 02-06-2013, 15:37   #54
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I've never taken one cent from any government fund or program.


News flash big guy, this system isn't so great, it is a corrupt and dying whore.
The system and the society kept you safe as a child. It provided the roads that your food was delivered on. It made it possible for you to have a computer and be on the internet,

So call all of that the efforts of a dying whore you silly twit.
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Old 02-06-2013, 16:11   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnemyOfTheState View Post
Wow, some of you really leave me at a loss.

We are all aware the government is trying and would like to see us disarmed, correct?

Why do you give the power to kill any American citizen, whether they be on foriegn or domestic soil, to the man that wants to disarm us? Do you understand how stupid that is?

One minute your defending the 2A, "the guvment cant take my gunz", next minute your justifying the power of the government to kill anyone they deem a 'terrorist'. You do realise that DHS expanded domestic terrorist threats to include veterans, gun owners, survivalists, Libertarians, gold buyers, CCW holders, NRA members and even homeschoolers.( I can provide links)

Don't you get it? Everyone on this forum today could be considered a terrorist and killed by a drone by a stroke of Barry's pen!

Neocons are just as responsible for the gov't trying to disarm us the Liberals. You keep giving it power to kill us, but you trust the government you claim to be inefficient and corrupt, to do the right thing and just kill Muslims right?
So, I'm a results kind of guy on this kind of stuff. Show me where they blew up the wrong American citizen, and I'll pay a lot more attention.


Al-Awlaki was a good shoot in my book.



But just for the sake of argument, lets say they fired a helfire at little timmy down the street, and little timmy never hurt anyone, and was completely innocent, what are we going to do about that before it happens to prevent it. Think realistically about it.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 02-06-2013 at 16:12..
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Old 02-06-2013, 16:24   #56
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All of you that support this have no room to ***** when the democrats take away your right to bear arms.
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Old 02-06-2013, 16:28   #57
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All of you that support this have no room to ***** when the democrats take away your right to bear arms.
Awww . . come on Ruble.

Seriously? Really?
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Old 02-06-2013, 17:07   #58
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Originally Posted by Ruble Noon View Post
All of you that support this have no room to ***** when the democrats take away your right to bear arms.
Well then, why haven't you put a stop to this policy?



Let's tiptoe out of that minefield and back into reality for a minute or two. Barry has been doing pretty much what he wants, without any consent from Congress on some of it, what do you suggest I do so that I can avoid culpability in your mind for this going wrong?


I am going to make a trip next week to Washington DC, and visit with my Congressman and both Senators, and might have a meeting with a couple others, I will express to them that I am very much not in favor of anything that approaches a registration or ban. Crazy people not having guns is a little hard to oppose..... Not even sure how to attack that one, but for us sane folks, hands off.

I only have a limited meeting time, 1/2 to 1 hour with a staffer, I have been surprised in the past the actual legislator showing up. I'll let others tackle the drone issue.
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Old 02-06-2013, 17:10   #59
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All of you that support this have no room to ***** when the democrats take away your right to bear arms.
That's OK. I heard their are some nice guys who will let you have an AK if you convert
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Old 02-06-2013, 17:56   #60
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I can understand not wanting to do a public trial before killing someone in an organization targeted by a Congressional authorization of military force, but it'd be nice if they at least ran it through the FISA court...same position I take with wiretaps/surveillance of U.S. citizens.
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