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Old 02-05-2013, 17:01   #26
Skyhook
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruble Noon View Post
Obama knows best. I'm kind of surprised that you put so much faith in him with all your rantings against him.
Naturally, Obama is just following GW Bush's program.

What, no shout-out to GW?
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Old 02-05-2013, 17:12   #27
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Originally Posted by SPIN2010 View Post
I also hear they take off and land somewhere that people see them.
This is what happens to mortar teams that try to attack those places

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Old 02-05-2013, 17:23   #28
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This is what happens to mortar teams that try to attack those places

Predator Strike video - YouTube
That's not going to buff out



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Old 02-05-2013, 18:18   #29
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The Left needs to decide where they stand. Funny how they complained all day and night about Bush and Obama is just as bad and they say nothing. How's Gitmo's closing coming along?
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:30   #30
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They were probably just tourists that missed the bus back to the cruise ship....

How else would they end up in a terrorist camp in Afghanistan?

Randy

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Old 02-05-2013, 18:37   #31
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
A lot of people are confused, some think that the constitution should apply in foreign lands, I think the law of land warfare should, since it is the international covenant on such matters.
So if an American citizen goes abroad, he no longer has constitutional rights in regards to the US Government?
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:48   #32
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Well . . . by itself it's not'a bad thing.
But if he was trying to stop people from being able to say whatever they wanted . . . . and if he was against an American's right to have a gun . . . and if his actions leaned heavily in favor of muslims rather than Ameicans . . I think we might be wise to be very concerned about it.
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Old 02-05-2013, 19:01   #33
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So if an American citizen goes abroad, he no longer has constitutional rights in regards to the US Government?
Not just an American citizen, but an American citizen who has been “recently” involved in “activities” posing a threat of a violent attack?

Do you renounce your American citizenship, rights and protections when you declare war upon America?

I'm sure there were some American Germans fighting for the Nazi's back in the day. Don't see how we cut them any special breaks or how they deserved any Constitutional protections.
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Old 02-05-2013, 20:29   #34
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Originally Posted by steveksux View Post
They were probably just tourists that missed the bus back to the cruise ship....

How else would they end up in a terrorist camp in Afghanistan?

Randy
Too bad they were neither in a terrorist camp nor in Afghanistan...

You're all missing the bigger picture. Al-Awaki may have been a bad seed that needed killing. But like it or not, he was an American citizen who wasn't afforded due process.

Must we wait for the one found individually questionable to question the ability of a "high ranking official" and his opinion on the matter? What must the burden of proof be?

I guess all is well, as long as someone "high ranking" decides that when you leave our borders, you can be taken out.

Show me the "clear and present danger" of a man on the lam. Then we can talk about suspension of habeas corpus.
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Old 02-05-2013, 20:30   #35
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Originally Posted by engineer151515 View Post
Not just an American citizen, but an American citizen who has been “recently” involved in “activities” posing a threat of a violent attack?

Do you renounce your American citizenship, rights and protections when you declare war upon America?

I'm sure there were some American Germans fighting for the Nazi's back in the day. Don't see how we cut them any special breaks or how they deserved any Constitutional protections.
... but we did. Those who weren't killed on a field of battle were afforded a military trail.
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Old 02-05-2013, 20:33   #36
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... but we did. Those who weren't killed on a field of battle were afforded a military trail.
Sure, when we controlled the ground.

I've still heard no practical solution to the question: "how do you capture and prosecute an American terrorist in a foreign, hostile country".
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Old 02-05-2013, 20:42   #37
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Sure, when we controlled the ground.

I've still heard no practical solution to the question: "how do you capture and prosecute an American terrorist in a foreign, hostile country".
I wish I were smart enough to produce that answer. But I know what the answer ISN'T - it ISN'T allowing a "high ranking official" the final determination on life or death. I'm a simple man, but I don't see the authority for any one man to determine that.

When the military is the "high ranking official", and something resembling proof of a clear and present danger is presented, I'll agree. Until then, allowing some unnamed Washington official the authority to terminate makes me queasy.
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Old 02-05-2013, 22:00   #38
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Originally Posted by snerd View Post
But, but...... it's okay to kill American citizens with no due process. So says over half the members here!


IMHO- If you are being targeted by a Hellfire from Predator drone in tango-land you have pretty much given up your rights an an American .... so fire away!
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Old 02-05-2013, 22:02   #39
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Originally Posted by Skyhook View Post
Naturally, Obama is just following GW Bush's program.

What, no shout-out to GW?


Actually he has taken it much further.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:05   #40
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:27   #41
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Political Issues

Thank goodness of the 2A.... I'm gonna need a bigger gun safe to keep my peronal and home defense.

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Last edited by DOC44; 02-06-2013 at 05:54..
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:38   #42
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Originally Posted by QNman View Post
I wish I were smart enough to produce that answer. But I know what the answer ISN'T - it ISN'T allowing a "high ranking official" the final determination on life or death. I'm a simple man, but I don't see the authority for any one man to determine that.

When the military is the "high ranking official", and something resembling proof of a clear and present danger is presented, I'll agree. Until then, allowing some unnamed Washington official the authority to terminate makes me queasy.
I agree completely. Giving some crook in DC the job of judge, jury, and executioner is a complete and total violation of our right to due process.

Also, their definition of a "threat" will change over time, and their enforcement areas will eventually include US soil.

Last edited by Fear Night; 02-06-2013 at 05:39..
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:25   #43
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I always thought the military was strictly subordinate to the civilian authorities in America, and that was a goods thing, even when you fob't particularly like the current civilian authority.

Was there this sort of fuss when US citizens were being detained indefinitely without trial, charges, or representation? I don't recall it, maybe I wasn't here yet.

Randy

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Last edited by steveksux; 02-06-2013 at 06:29..
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:27   #44
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Originally Posted by steveksux View Post
I always thought the military was strictly subordinate to the civilian authorities in America, and that was a goods thing, even when you fob't particularly like the current civilian authority.

Was there this sort of fuss when US citizens were being detained indefinitely without trial, charges, or representation? I don't recall it, maybe I wasn't here yet.

Randy

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Apparently, you weren't here yet... Though admittedly, many here were OK with that too.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:26   #45
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Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:27   #46
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Those guys were enemy combatants on foreign soil. I am very glad that al-Awlaki is dead. Might have something to do with one of his followers killing a friend of mine and 12 other people.
Killing terrorists is a good thing, American terrorists deserve it even more than the foreign ones, but I think there should be some kind of review from outside the Executive before it's done.

Maybe have a panel of judges that aren't accountable to Obama to ensure there is sufficient evidence and justification before going ahead with a strike?

I don't know, the whole idea makes me uneasy, but having said that, I have to admit killing those guys makes a lot of sense and makes me feel all warm inside.

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Old 02-06-2013, 09:16   #47
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Originally Posted by snerd View Post
But, but...... it's okay to kill American citizens with no due process. So says over half the members here!
The NDAA already gives them that ability, effectively.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:21   #48
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Originally Posted by BenjiEDF View Post
This is what happens to mortar teams that try to attack those places

Predator Strike video - YouTube
I bet they don't have enough guts to try that again.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:49   #49
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Wow, some of you really leave me at a loss.

We are all aware the government is trying and would like to see us disarmed, correct?

Why do you give the power to kill any American citizen, whether they be on foriegn or domestic soil, to the man that wants to disarm us? Do you understand how stupid that is?

One minute your defending the 2A, "the guvment cant take my gunz", next minute your justifying the power of the government to kill anyone they deem a 'terrorist'. You do realise that DHS expanded domestic terrorist threats to include veterans, gun owners, survivalists, Libertarians, gold buyers, CCW holders, NRA members and even homeschoolers.( I can provide links)

Don't you get it? Everyone on this forum today could be considered a terrorist and killed by a drone by a stroke of Barry's pen!

Neocons are just as responsible for the gov't trying to disarm us the Liberals. You keep giving it power to kill us, but you trust the government you claim to be inefficient and corrupt, to do the right thing and just kill Muslims right?
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:24   #50
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Wow, some of you really leave me at a loss.

We are all aware the government is trying and would like to see us disarmed, correct?

Why do you give the power to kill any American citizen, whether they be on foriegn or domestic soil, to the man that wants to disarm us? Do you understand how stupid that is?

One minute your defending the 2A, "the guvment cant take my gunz", next minute your justifying the power of the government to kill anyone they deem a 'terrorist'. You do realise that DHS expanded domestic terrorist threats to include veterans, gun owners, survivalists, Libertarians, gold buyers, CCW holders, NRA members and even homeschoolers.( I can provide links)

Don't you get it? Everyone on this forum today could be considered a terrorist and killed by a drone by a stroke of Barry's pen!

Neocons are just as responsible for the gov't trying to disarm us the Liberals. You keep giving it power to kill us, but you trust the government you claim to be inefficient and corrupt, to do the right thing and just kill Muslims right?


Would you like to tell me what historical precedent there is for dealing with turncoats who are conspiring with the enemy on foreign soil???

What would you have us do, risk the lives of Special Forces troops to conduct a Bin-laden snatch mission to make sure a turncoat gets back here for due process?

Just let them go about their way and let them help our enemies?

Put them on trial in absentia so that they and the rest of the world knows we are on to them and they have plenty of time to disappear?

These aren't the first turncoats in the history of our Country that got whacked, we are just using an new technology to do it and it's getting more publicity.

No I am not afraid of it being used on citizens in the US. I am safe, they couldn't get through the swarm of black helicopters constantly hovering over my house
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