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Old 02-06-2013, 07:06   #126
Lone Wolf8634
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Originally Posted by philipk View Post
I am not going to give you info to judge me as your belief's are far out of the mainstream.
Translation:

"Me saying my beliefs are conservative is so indefensible that I cannot post them here for fear I would be laughed off the forum."

This could be fun.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:12   #127
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Originally Posted by Lone Wolf8634 View Post
Translation:

"Me saying my beliefs are conservative is so indefensible that I cannot post them here for fear I would be laughed off the forum."

This could be fun.
Look up President Dwight Eisenhower and President Gerald Ford.

Their ideals of conservatism defines me quite well.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:23   #128
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Originally Posted by philipk View Post
Look up President Dwight Eisenhower and President Gerald Ford.

Their ideals of conservatism defines me quite well.
Read the COTUS.

Read the DoI.

Read some of the Framers words that go into greater detail about their debates and reasoning behind what they wrote.

Use logic and think things thru. I firmly believe that if a person uses logic and does not allow their feelers to get in the way, then they suddenly see why this country has been sliding towards financial ruin and why our freedoms have been slipping away.

"Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it"
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:48   #129
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Originally Posted by Lone Wolf8634 View Post
Read the COTUS.

Read the DoI.

Read some of the Framers words that go into greater detail about their debates and reasoning behind what they wrote.
The COTUS is neither liberal nor conservative. It is a document that set-up our Republic.

It is wrong to believe that anyone can read it and tell exactly what it means.

Look to the delegates who wrote it. Many of them argued to their graves what it means.

Alexander Hamilton and James Madison had many lively debates about the meaning of the constitution.

The very people who were in the room that produced the constitution couldn't agree on the scope and meaning of the document after it was ratified.

If the very ones who wrote couldn't agree on what it means, how in the **** can we believe that there are simple meanings to the application of the document.
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Last edited by philipk; 02-06-2013 at 08:07.. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:12   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipk View Post
I am not going to give you info to judge me as your belief's are far out of the mainstream.
Of course you won't.


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Old 02-06-2013, 09:13   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipk View Post
Look up President Dwight Eisenhower and President Gerald Ford.

Their ideals of conservatism defines me quite well.
ROFL!


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Old 02-06-2013, 09:16   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipk View Post
The COTUS is neither liberal nor conservative. It is a document that set-up our Republic.

It is wrong to believe that anyone can read it and tell exactly what it means.

Look to the delegates who wrote it. Many of them argued to their graves what it means.

Alexander Hamilton and James Madison had many lively debates about the meaning of the constitution.

The very people who were in the room that produced the constitution couldn't agree on the scope and meaning of the document after it was ratified.

If the very ones who wrote couldn't agree on what it means, how in the **** can we believe that there are simple meanings to the application of the document.
I guess they had to ratify it to find out what was in it.

The COTUS isn't liberal or conservative. Those monikers describe ones disposition to it.

It's pretty clear by now that you're a progressive. You just don't like the label. Hillary and Obama are proud of it. Don't be shy. It's very fashionable.


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Old 02-06-2013, 09:23   #133
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I guess they had to ratify it to find out what was in it.
That is a very stupid comment.

Either you are being flippant or as I suspect, you don't really know your history on the implementation of the constitution.

Please explain to me the arguments between Madison and Hamilton on the meaning of the constitution. Both men were in the room when it was written.

Also explain to me the arguments between Madison and Jefferson. Though Jefferson wasn't in the room, he was one of the main founding fathers. They argued about it until Jefferson's death in 1826 some 39 years after the constitution was written.

If the COTUS has a simple interpretation, please explain this history. Don't skate around the issue.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:28   #134
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It's a sad day when people acting within the law are called traitors for their beliefs. It's starting to sound like a Soviet propaganda machine around here.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:52   #135
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Anti gunners should only be called traitors if theyre adopting that position to undermine the BOR. If theyve adopted the position because theyre just ignoramuses then thats their loss. If your life isnt worth defending then it isnt worth anything.

Thats why ultimately it doesnt matter what anyone thinks. Self defense and refusing to submit to tyranny is part of natural law and a god-given right. The 2a only recognizes what liberal progressives deny is the unquestionable truth.

Now, true traitors....most of the main stream media, democrats and anyone who voted for obama in the last election. Haters and destroyers of our country. Get a rope as far as im concerned.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:02   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipk View Post
I am not going to give you info to judge me as your belief's are far out of the mainstream.
My beliefs are farther right than CFs are,by your posts your a neo-con at best a sympathizer at worst.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipk View Post
My numbers are not pulled out of my rear.

Teddy Roosevelt is one of the most beloved Presidents in this county. If you liked him you are basically a progressive.

Debatable,Teddy did have some slick willie habits though.

The vast majority of our population believes in the direct election of U.S. Senators. They are progressives.

Senators should be appointed not elected.

The vast majority of our population believes in the woman's right to vote. They are progressives.

Don't rightly care,however the progressives like the idea.Women vote with their emotions not facts.

The vast majority of our population believes in Social Security. They are progressives.

Social security is a voter authorized ponzi scheme,however,Peter is getting tired of being robbed by paul.

I need not go further.

You are quite correct,neo-con or rino fit to a t.

Thus these numbers are not pulled out my rear.

Yes they are,you fail ta take inta account folk who just plain ignore the corrupt .gub.

Even on gun control, close to 90% of the population in several recent poles want universal background checks.
You also fail ta see that a good portion of citizens will ignore what they see as law/s that violate the 2a.You supporting any 2a violation shows quite firmly where you stand in regards ta the COTUS.'08.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:20   #137
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I agree, but so far the Supreme Court has only found that the constitution gives you a right to own some kind of gun - not specifically anything they are trying to ban right now. Everything else is just our opinion.

Not to mention, we all oppose somebody's constitutional rights on some issue, whether it's the Westboro Baptists Church, the KKK, the Brady Campaign, Occupy ______, or the democrat party.
have to disagree.
i don't oppose others constitutional rights.

while i may not agree/enjoy/like an atheist dipping a crucifix in urine, i don't oppose his right to do so. if the gov't can tell that person they can't do that, then they can tell me what I can't do. this is the main difference between a conservative and a liberal. a real conservative believes in constitutional rights, ESPECIALLY the ones that offend him. liberals/dems/rinos believe in the rights they use and not the others.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Seems like it's the right of the people to keep and bear whatever arms are necessary to secure a free state. I know the SC hasn't ruled that, but an unbiased factual look at it would seem to imply that's the meaning. If they've ruled we have the right to keep and bear arms, as the constitution states, it doesn't seem we need a ruling for what kind.

e2a: and as far as treason is concerned, that's a question i've wondered. if you propose a law in direct violation of the document you were sworn to protect, how can you not be "fired"?

Last edited by BRoberts243; 02-06-2013 at 11:29..
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:35   #138
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You also fail ta see that a good portion of citizens will ignore what they see as law/s that violate the 2a.You supporting any 2a violation shows quite firmly where you stand in regards ta the COTUS.'08.
That's a point of view that's going to land people in jail.

A person on the street does NOT get to determine what is a violation of the 2nd Amendment. It is not up to the population to decide whether or not they should follow a law. If you disagree with a law, you don't - and can't - simply ignore it, you take measures through the Courts. That's what Dick Heller did. That's what Otis McDonald did. That's what Mary Shepard and Michael Moore are in the process of doing in IL right now.

Your assertion that it's okay to simply ignore laws you disagree with is foolish. That defense could be used for nearly any crime out there.

SCOTUS has already overturned laws that they felt went to far in regards to the 2nd Amendment. That's THEIR job, as defined in the Constitution. It's not the job of every individual to decide which laws they want to follow. That way leads to anarchy.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:34   #139
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That right there is the difference,I'm willing ta be jailed for mt beliefs,are you.'08.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:40   #140
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That right there is the difference,I'm willing ta be jailed for mt beliefs,are you.'08.
One of my beliefs is to follow the laws of the land. Sorry if that's not consistent with your belief structure.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:46   #141
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Regardless of whether or not they violate the COTUS,the SCOTUS has become a political entity,the ACA ruling is proof of that.All it will take is 1 retirement and the 2a may well be gutted or declared null and void.'08.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:49   #142
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I believe our rights come from God, not government.
I have a right to defend myself and my family. if any gov't sees fit to make a law against that then I will be a criminal. as well as several other million people. if you feel compelled to do what daddy government tells you, that's fine, it's your choice and is probably the easier choice.

I don't arbitrarily disobey laws because i feel like it. there is a difference.

I have a right to life given to me by God, not Obama or Bush or Washington or the Supreme Court. If there was no government at all I would still have the right. If we were taken over by a foreign army, I still have that right. It is independent of and pre-exists all government. I have a right to defend it as well. I couldn't care less what anyone else has to say about it.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:59   #143
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Originally Posted by BRoberts243 View Post
I believe our rights come from God, not government.
I have a right to defend myself and my family. if any gov't sees fit to make a law against that then I will be a criminal. as well as several other million people. if you feel compelled to do what daddy government tells you, that's fine, it's your choice and is probably the easier choice.

I don't arbitrarily disobey laws because i feel like it. there is a difference.

I have a right to life given to me by God, not Obama or Bush or Washington or the Supreme Court. If there was no government at all I would still have the right. If we were taken over by a foreign army, I still have that right. It is independent of and pre-exists all government. I have a right to defend it as well. I couldn't care less what anyone else has to say about it.
Lift that barge. Tote that bale. Drink a little wine and you land in jail.

God-given rights just doesn't cut it in the court of law.
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:07   #144
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Lift that barge. Tote that bale. Drink a little wine and you land in jail.

God-given rights just doesn't cut it in the court of law.
that's perfectly fine with me
if it actually came to that, which i don't expect it to, then we'll all be in jail. If the gov't can't trust you with protecting yourself, what makes you think they'll trust you with any responsibility?

we'll be in the same situation. mine will be called a jail, yours will be called a residential center, or something along those lines.
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:08   #145
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Couldn't the same be said for gun nuts who don't want anti gun folks to have freedom of speech?
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:15   #146
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Couldn't the same be said for gun nuts who don't want anti gun folks to have freedom of speech?
depends.
is the gun nut a politician who swore to uphold the constitution? then yes.

if the gun nut a guy on a forum, not actually infringing on someone's rights? just stating he doesn't think they should be able to say it?
then No

Now, most 'gun nuts' should support everyone's rights, regardless of if they agree with them or not, but that's not always the case. 'Gun nuts' should support the Constitution more than anyone.

But a politician actively trying to pass legislation that violates the Constitution is not 'freedom of speech'
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:26   #147
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I never thought name calling was very constructive.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:02   #148
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But a politician actively trying to pass legislation that violates the Constitution is not 'freedom of speech'
You're doing the same thing, though. You're declaring that they're trying to pass legislation that violates the the Constitution. That's your OPINION. They believe they are trying to pass legislation that IS within the restrictions applied by the Constitution. That is THEIR opinion. And neither of you are traitors for it.

You're both, under the FIRST Amendment, expressing your opinions.

If legislation IS passed, YOUR opinion doesn't carry any weight on whether or not it's Constitutional. That's the job of the courts. You have to the right to pray for relief* if you feel your rights have been violated. THAT is your course of action, other than voting for elected officials and/or running for office yourself.


Because they believe in their own opinion and that opinion differs from yours still doesn't make them traitors.




*in this case, before anyone jumps on it, a prayer for relief means a request, and has nothing to do with churches or God.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:37   #149
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Go to the library. Read the founders writings. Don't wallow in willful ignorance.
You make the claims, then support them. I think you don't have a leg to stand on. So back up what you say instead of demanding others do what you won't do. You sound like an entitled spoiled child who has socialist leanings. Now prove what you posted and support your arguments. Emotion is not proof.

Post the writings.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:40   #150
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Read the COTUS.

Read the DoI.

Read some of the Framers words that go into greater detail about their debates and reasoning behind what they wrote.

Use logic and think things thru. I firmly believe that if a person uses logic and does not allow their feelers to get in the way, then they suddenly see why this country has been sliding towards financial ruin and why our freedoms have been slipping away.

"Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it"
So those documents which define blacks as only 3/5s human beings is what you think we should follow? Those same documents that say if you don't have land or are a woman or are not white, then you don't get to vote?
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