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Old 02-05-2013, 12:20   #101
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Originally Posted by HollowHead View Post
Defense of your position that the Second is more important than the other amendments simply due to your emotions. Again, can you provide either case law or precident? HH
No, I can't. I believe I said that upthread.

But yes, I have no problem using principles to defend my position. I believe I've also offered some examples in the last few posts as to why the second is more important than the rest and why the BOR are as well..

I might add that there are several SCOTUS rulings which are based on less, including the latest Roberts opinion on Obamacare which was based on his personal emotion.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:44   #102
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Yes, I knew all of that. Cool huh?

PhilipK - refresh my memory but aren't you a Progressive too?
By your definition I am a progressive. By standard definitions I'm a conservative.

By your definition 90% of all Americans are progressives. 90% of all politicians are progressives. And 100% of all presidents in the last hundred and 10 years are progressives.

So why don't you do us a favor and leave the country. Form your own nation and leave the rest of us alone.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:55   #103
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Old 02-05-2013, 17:11   #104
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Should of started this thread with...

Shouldnt the politicians who voted for limiting guns be charged with treason?
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:11   #105
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Should of started this thread with...

Shouldnt the politicians who voted for limiting guns be charged with treason?
The answer is still no.

Until a law is passed AND has been challenged and found to be unconstitutional through the courts, then no laws have been broken, let alone anything that would rise to the standard of treason.

The use of that word in this context falls deep, DEEP into the realm of rhetoric.

For those who disagree with me, answer this: Name one instance - just one - where a lawmaker was charged with a crime after a piece of legislation was found to be unconstitutional.

Here, I'll make it easy for you. Marbury v. Madison in 1803 was the first time SCOTUS voided a Congressionally-approved piece of legislation.

That's also the case where Chief Justice Marshall stated:
Quote:
It is emphatically the province and duty of the Judicial Department [the judicial branch] to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret that rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the Courts must decide on the operation of each.
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:13   #106
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Originally Posted by philipk View Post
By your definition I am a progressive. By standard definitions I'm a conservative.

By your definition 90% of all Americans are progressives. 90% of all politicians are progressives. And 100% of all presidents in the last hundred and 10 years are progressives.

So why don't you do us a favor and leave the country. Form your own nation and leave the rest of us alone.
That invitation to leave the country for objecting to Progressivism is funny. That's like a litmus test for a progressive.

But yeah you've pretty much identified the source of our problems. Nice job

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 02-05-2013 at 18:20..
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:13   #107
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Difference between arms and heavy weaponry. Cannons were more legal back then but were subject to restrictions that arms weren't.
So what laws were cannons governed by? And arms?
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:14   #108
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You like that dontcha lol
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:16   #109
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Foolish assertion.

Arms common to the soldiers of the time. Yes, you should be able to own an RPG. Most certainly. Whatever is needed to sufficiently arm a militia. Do you not think that farmers had cannons in their barns?
Really? Where in the Constitution does it say that? What is needed to sufficiently arm a militia? I do think many did have cannons as well as boats to do along with them. But either way, where does it say that NBC weapons are not covered? It says the RKBA shall not be infringed, by not allowing me to own a nuclear arm, are you not infringing my right?
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Old 02-05-2013, 18:28   #110
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That invitation to leave the country for objecting to Progressivism is funny. That's like a litmus test for a progressive.

But yeah you've pretty much identified the source of our problems. Nice job
However you claim the source of our problems is 100% of the Presidents, 90% of the elected representatives, and 90% of the people over the last 111 years.

Which one of us is the crazy one?
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Old 02-05-2013, 20:32   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipk View Post
However you claim the source of our problems is 100% of the Presidents, 90% of the elected representatives, and 90% of the people over the last 111 years.

Which one of us is the crazy one?
Those are your numbers which I can only assume you extracted directly from your anal orifice. Either way, yes, the lat 100 years of 20th century progressivism are most certainly the source of the country's problems as you folks have worked to incrementally undermine the COTUS and the founding principles. Traitors.

Even assuming your numbers are correct, who else would you blame? The other 10%??

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Old 02-05-2013, 20:34   #112
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Originally Posted by ChiTownPicaro View Post
Really? Where in the Constitution does it say that? What is needed to sufficiently arm a militia? I do think many did have cannons as well as boats to do along with them. But either way, where does it say that NBC weapons are not covered? It says the RKBA shall not be infringed, by not allowing me to own a nuclear arm, are you not infringing my right?
Go to the library. Read the founders writings. Don't wallow in willful ignorance.
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Old 02-05-2013, 21:10   #113
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Go to the library. Read the founders writings. Don't wallow in willful ignorance.
I don't give a flying **** what the founders writings said. They were of a different time and place. They supported slavery. They did not believe women had a voice. They only believe that landed white Protestant Anglo-Saxons had a voice. They were opposed to anyone different than them.

Unless you are a rich landed white Protestant Anglo-Saxon they wouldn't give a damn about you.

They were heroes in their day but mean very little to us today except to understand our history.

Remember that Jefferson and Madison couldn't agree what the COTUS meant. Thus what does it matter to us except for history.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:05   #114
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Originally Posted by philipk View Post
I don't give a flying **** what the founders writings said. They were of a different time and place. They supported slavery. They did not believe women had a voice. They only believe that landed white Protestant Anglo-Saxons had a voice. They were opposed to anyone different than them.

Unless you are a rich landed white Protestant Anglo-Saxon they wouldn't give a damn about you.

They were heroes in their day but mean very little to us today except to understand our history.

Remember that Jefferson and Madison couldn't agree what the COTUS meant. Thus what does it matter to us except for history.
Yeah, that's what I expect to hear a Progressive say. I mean, you sound like a textbook example. How is one supposed to understand what the document means unless one reads their discussions and debates on it? Their thoughts on particular sections?

Wait, didn't you say you were a "conservative"??

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Old 02-06-2013, 03:29   #115
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I can understand accidentally going against the Constitution but intentionally going against the Constitution makes you a traitor.
I've always seen them as traitors and enemies.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:44   #116
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I've always seen them as traitors and enemies.
Of course they are. As much as a foreign enemy. Maybe more.

Progressives are scum.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:23   #117
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Yeah, that's what I expect to hear a Progressive say. I mean, you sound like a textbook example. How is one supposed to understand what the document means unless one reads their discussions and debates on it? Their thoughts on particular sections?

Wait, didn't you say you were a "conservative"??
Yes, by standard definitions I am a conservative. Not by your definition.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:25   #118
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Of course they are. As much as a foreign enemy. Maybe more.

Progressives are scum.
Again, I love how you declare the vast majority of our population as scum.

Again do us a favor, leave, and form the type of county you want.

But wait, that isn't really possible. There isn't a free country on this planet more conservative than the U.S. (even though most of us are scum according to you)
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:44   #119
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Originally Posted by philipk View Post
Again, I love how you declare the vast majority of our population as scum.

Again do us a favor, leave, and form the type of county you want.

But wait, that isn't really possible. There isn't a free country on this planet more conservative than the U.S. (even though most of us are scum according to you)
Translation:

"We're gonna change this country until its a replica of failed or failing countries cuz we don't like the principles it was founded on. We know better than you and if you don't like it leave and form your own country."


Oh how I wish we could....... Either that, or ship off all the "progressives" to countries that already conform to their ideals, they'd be so much happier.

And so would we.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:48   #120
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Originally Posted by Lone Wolf8634 View Post
Translation:

"We're gonna change this country until its a replica of failed or failing countries cuz we don't like the principles it was founded on. We know better than you and if you don't like it leave and form your own country."


Oh how I wish we could....... Either that, or ship off all the "progressives" to countries that already conform to their ideals, they'd be so much happier.

And so would we.
Which definition of progressive are you using?

The standard one in which Teddy Roosevelt was the first progressive President?

If so, you need to reverse 111 years of political thinking.

We already have that type of county so no need for us to move.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:54   #121
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Yes, by standard definitions I am a conservative. Not by your definition.
Lol. Tell me about your conservative principles. Please. Perhaps we can just end this
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:55   #122
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Again, I love how you declare the vast majority of our population as scum.

Again do us a favor, leave, and form the type of county you want.

But wait, that isn't really possible. There isn't a free country on this planet more conservative than the U.S. (even though most of us are scum according to you)
I called Progressives scum. You're extrapolating numbers pulled from your anal cavity.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:56   #123
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Thats insane! It doesnt say in the 2nd amendment that you have the right to bear arms at the governments discretion.

He's right though.

There are some supreme court rulings on our side but if an AWB or magazine ban were to pass it could take years for a challenge to actually make it to the court.

This article might interest you.

http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fa...n-history.aspx
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:58   #124
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Lol. Tell me about your conservative principles. Please. Perhaps we can just end this
I am not going to give you info to judge me as your belief's are far out of the mainstream.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:03   #125
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I called Progressives scum. You're extrapolating numbers pulled from your anal cavity.
My numbers are not pulled out of my rear.

Teddy Roosevelt is one of the most beloved Presidents in this county. If you liked him you are basically a progressive.

The vast majority of our population believes in the direct election of U.S. Senators. They are progressives.

The vast majority of our population believes in the woman's right to vote. They are progressives.

The vast majority of our population believes in Social Security. They are progressives.

I need not go further.

Thus these numbers are not pulled out my rear.

Even on gun control, close to 90% of the population in several recent poles want universal background checks.
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