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Old 02-02-2013, 22:34   #26
shotgunred
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Catholic school and the nuns straightened me out.
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Old 02-02-2013, 22:37   #27
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Indin way of doing things, or at least for some of us, is simply tell the child WHY they must do something along with showing them exactly what and how to do something. Children learn best by visually seeing stuff being done. So the old saying of "Do as I say, not as I do." is simply mental masterbation on part of the parent in question. Gettin' physical and spanking a child usually just teaches them, by example, that one must hit someone when they ain't getting their own way. Also, we should understand that our kiddos know us better than we know them sometimes. We assume that they are too young to understand this or that adult behavior, well they actually do understand. They may not exactly know how to express their feeling about it, but oh yeah, they understand. He'll, that's been their job since birth........to watch us. In fact, that's all they've done, is watch how we express anger, joy, relax (see self medicating with booze), celebrate, argue, communicate, show empathy or hyper criticism, etc. Anyway, I'm not saying you are any of these things, just offering some help to a fellow GT'er. Best wishes mate.
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Old 02-02-2013, 22:47   #28
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My first two questions are: 1) How much sugar does he eat? You will be shocked at how many things have sugar in them and how it can affect a child's behavior. 2) How much TV/Video games? If you can cut these things out/way back you will see a big improvement.
I can't say there are not other problems but try these first.
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Old 02-02-2013, 23:21   #29
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Take away all privileges and make him earn them at the end of each day by doing his homework and duties around the house.

No TV, game boy, Xbox and whatever until it is all done. The key is to be persistent and not give up to crying and drama.

I would also make him earn them over the weekend.

My kids like playing on my Xbox and I let them do it when I want to nap in the afternoon. But they get over excited an scream.
After warning them and gettin mad which obviously didn't help I just started a simple policy. If they wake me up one time I simply take the controllers away. No if and no buts. If I come down the stairs they know the controllers are going up with me.
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Old 02-02-2013, 23:22   #30
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Catholic school and the nuns straightened me out.
So does the marines. Send him to boot camp.
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Old 02-02-2013, 23:50   #31
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We have tried rewards, when he does not get it he gets mad and thinks we are being mean. We had him in soccer and he just laid in the goal. I try to spend time with him but it is very hard to keep his attention. I bought R/C cars for us to work on and play with but he only wants to drive and does not want to do the other stuff necessary. He has played chess and checkers all the way through but with chess I had to repeat over and over the move of the knight. He just does not listen. You can tell when you are explaining it to him that you are talking to yourself.

I am suspecting he is ADHD. I believe I and his grandfather are as well but we did not need medicine for it. My dad had a Dominican nuns to deal with him when he was this age and I think I learned to control mine a little better.
Apologies in advance for a long post.

My 10 y/o son, 13 y/o daughter and I are all ADD/ADHD. We're a well-educated and very successful family, but there'd always been a gap between what I should have been able to do, and what I did, or how hard it was to accomplish it. I got a Master's degree before I was diagnosed, but my grades were always marginal, and some parts of the work should have been easy, but gave me fits.

While it gets a lot of press for being over-diagnosed (and it truly is by teachers and others who can't be bothered to deal with real boys), for the most part it's wildly UNDER-diagnosed and UNDER-treated by families who punish a kid who can't focus rather than do something that would support him/her.

Couple thoughts - start with YOU. If you have a family history of ADHD (just about everyone with it does - it's supposedly as tied to genetics as eye color), you can do a lot of the learning and groundwork without experimenting on him. You may have it 'better controlled', but in all liklihood, the people in your life don't think you have it as well-controlled as you do.

Buy and read a copy of this book:



and see what you think as you learn more - see how much the descriptions sound like you, and how much they sound like your son.

Then take a look for a doctor/psychiatrist who is used to working with it, and is willing to really talk to you about your history, and whether this is something that's really going on for you.

Then, if you and your doctor determine you do have ADD/ADHD, for the love of god, TRY the meds, and see how they work for you. The basic meds (adderal/ritalin) have a duration of just three or four hours, so it's VERY easy to try and see how they work. If you have ADD/ADHD, you'll be shockingly calm, patient and focused. It's kind of a revelation, actually.

It's totally UNlike anti-depressants or other medications where you're signing up for 45/90 days, even if it doesn't work or you have a poor experience with side effects. Three hours makes it a super-easy experiment.

Once you've learned a bit, seen how it works for you (if it does), THEN look at taking your kid for evaluation. You'll be in SO much of a better position to support him, understand what he's experiencing, and help him.

You don't want to treat something that's not truly there, but what you're describing is absolutely classic for ADHD, and the resistance to doing what he 'should' be is perhaps trying to avoid the terrible strain and shame of trying, wanting to focus and failing.

It was at least for me absolutely heartbreaking to realize how hard my son had been trying, and how very much he wanted to please us, and how terribly his inability to succeed hurt him. Getting the right help changed all of our lives for the better.
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Last edited by Deanster; 02-03-2013 at 13:46..
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Old 02-02-2013, 23:54   #32
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This might go over like a lead balloon, but you may want to have your son evaluated by a child psychologist. We have close friends who have a daughter that struggled in school, struggled in college and try as she might, she had trouble making better than C's in college. After her sophmore year in college, she was diagnosed with ADD. After starting a drug therapy, her grades picked up, she was able to study and concentrate and became an A/B student. She now wishes she had been diagnosed in elementary school, or whenever the symptoms started.
Super-common story - ADD/ADHD looks very different for girls, and they rarely get help early enough. A lot of them do well until their junior year of high school, when academics really get hard, and then kind of melt down. It's good that she got help, and a damn shame that it didn't come earlier. The stress of the 'struggle' in school takes a toll that's hard to understand until you've seen someone go through it.
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Old 02-03-2013, 00:14   #33
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Glad you have an interest , this is some tough stuff,as we sometimes think kids know they have to take orders and do what we say,

invest your time wisely with the child as this is an important age. Find common likes, If it happens to be the radio cars but he does not like the maintenance so be it.my son started shooting with me at 14 I used to get frustrated with him not listening to my suggestions on how to do better.It made for a frustrating day for me and him, I backed off and was lucky as the range officers took interest in him and what ever they said he listened to, So my ego may have been a little sore that he would listen to a stranger and not me but the end result is we have a great common ground in shooting and its always a conversation I can engage him in.

Find some common neutral ground. find out what he really likes, don't be judgmental of it,and educate yourself so you can engage in conversation in it. I mean real conversation.

Also if they just sit around with video games,tv internett they end up with allot of pent up energy that turns into bad energy quickly, its a fine line as they need relaxation time , but video games is a stimulant not a relaxer

Good Luck
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Old 02-03-2013, 00:42   #34
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Modify his environment perhaps?

I think he is challenging you, he is challenging you..have an idea, the next time you discipline him do not let him see you angry. Show him no emotional response but issue a very stern punishment. Be calm, be collected and be very matter of a fact. Also be indifferent to temper tantrums and hissy fits. Also remove any and all TV, video games, and computers (except for school use) Mon-Fri.....permanently. Get him in sports (maybe non-team ones) swimming, track, x country, tennis, even. Karate.




Also his behaviors could be a symptom of something else, get with school and teachers... Show up and observe him at school, recess, and even lunch.


Either way get him so. Child Psychologist to see, I am not a fan of meds.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/he...email0=y&_r=5&
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Old 02-03-2013, 00:47   #35
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Swift kick in the ass or two and a bar of soap in the mouth. My mom did that a time or two and I eventually learned my lesson!
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:39   #36
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Introduce him to the board of education. Often as needed.
You said it, brother....
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:50   #37
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I said

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Parenting advice on GT, really?
then you replied

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Originally Posted by RenoF250 View Post
Sure, why not. You can always take what you like and leave the rest.
Come on, most of the people that post here are 20 years old, and living in their parent's basement.

Want some serious parenting advice? Talk to his pediatrician and his school counselor.

If you take any anonymous advice for a bunch of goofballs on a gun forum, YOU are your child's problem.
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:09   #38
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My son does not listen at all. We have to tell him many times to get him to do something and then it is after a ton of whining and trying to get his sister to do it for him. He also does things right after he is told not to. We have taken his stuff away, grounded him, put him in the corner, spanked him, and talked to him. None of that works. It seems he is just going to do want he wants regardless of consequences.

He is also getting in trouble with school work because eh rushes through it (it is boring) and does half wrong. He knows how to do them but refuses to take the time to do it right the first time so I have to go through it with him 4 times.

My patience is running out and I did not have much to start with.
Wow, he's acting like he's 9 or something, you should medicate his so he acts like a zombie, then parenting will be easier.
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:25   #39
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I went through this same issue with my son. I would take his Playstation, games, toys, put him on restriction, etc. Finally, I took his bedroom door off the hinges and told him it would not go back on til he straightened out. You would have thought his world was coming to an end and he got his act together.

Also, after taking his stuff away, I found myself getting relaxed after a day or two and giving it back. Longer restriction times and being stern abut giving his stuff seemed to work much better.

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Old 02-03-2013, 07:35   #40
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Whip out $25 bucks for yor co-pay and consult a professional.

ADD/ADHD is real. Find a qualified professional and have
him tested.

If he is not ADD/ADHD, then you have to take a serious look
at yourself/SO. Kids are mirrors for the most part. They will
reflect back what they see and perceive as appropriate
behavior. They get this information from you.

We have a Military couple that live across the street from
us. For years we could hear them yelling at the top of their
lungs (from inside their house) at the kids. Their kids were
completely out of control, pretty much just giving back exactly
what they got. Finally they took the kids to see a professional
family councilor. Within two weeks, the kids were yanked
out of the process and the parents became the focus for
the counselor. We have not heard a peep from them in 2 yrs.
The kids have made a remarkable turn around, both
academically and socially.


Good luck, keep at it, you will find your way through


Will
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:53   #41
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OP: I feel for you, man. Raising kids can be tough. It certainly sounds like he's trying to get your attention, one way or another. He may be jealous of the attention his sibling(s) are getting. Or maybe it is ADHD. I'm not a psychiatrist, just a parent of teeneagers.

To start, I would honestly assess how much attention he gets versus his siblings. Some kids need more than others.
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:14   #42
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Go over to amazon and pick up a copy of 1-2-3 by Phelan. Even if you don't adopt the program, there are excelent sections on basic psychology of behavior modification. We like the program also.
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:20   #43
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Our oldest daughter was very bright. Her grades would be A, B, A, D, B one semester, then next the D or F would be in another class and the class she failed last time would be a B. Could not get her to pay attention and do the work. It was causing so much stress with us hounding her and her pushing back that I put my foot down. I set some rules. Your school work is your responsibility, we will not hound you about it but if you want help, ask. You get an allowance if all your grades are C or better. One D and you are cut off until you get another grade card. Get a B average your allowance is X1.5. A average = X2. (I set the dollar amounts low, $5.00, $7.50 or $10.00 a week, and she had chores.) She did Ok the first half the year and got a B average. The last few weeks of the year however she got pissed at a teacher, stopped doing the work and got a C- or D. No allowance until the end of the first semester NEXT YEAR. Tears! Agony! Doom! Asking, dad, can I have a comic book? Dad, can I have a candy bar. Having to beg for money for ANYTHING no matter how small all summer got to her. She never got less than a C in any class after that for the rest of her school career.

I consider the main points these:

We gave both girls lots of attention and time. We did things together, talked and had supper at the supper table as a family.

Once we got past the initial drama with the oldest, we defused the situation by setting rules and making the situation impersonal. You did A, you get A, not our call. What would you like for supper?

Emotional reactions on your part elicit emotional reactions from them. If you have buttons to be pushed, they will get pushed. Make sure that they are getting positive attention from you when they do something positive and none when they act out in little ways. Obviously serious infractions require attention, but do it in a calm and objective way that robs them of any satisfaction in provoking you. I'm sorry you did that, you're grounded for the month, which you knew would happen, lets move on now.
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:25   #44
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He wants your attention. Good or bad it is your attention that validates him. Remember when you were 9 and sometimes felt invisible? This is kind of hard to get started. You have to change how you interact with the boy. As best as possible you have to ignore the bad behavior, BUT: You must never let him get it right without recognizing it. You will have to start with the smaller things.

"Thank you for hanging up your jacket." Just after you asked him to. No big deal, just recognize it. I know this sounds like Dr. Phill, but it does work. Ignore the big disasters and NEVER miss the things he got right. It is hard to get started, but once you get the hang of it, once you get the momentium going, it gets to be a natural thing.

You have to get out of the habbit of griping at him when you first walk into the front door every evening. In fact the whole point is you get to stop yelling at him at all. You could politley say, "Son hang up your jacket." That sets up the polite "Thank-you." Think about one of your friends who has a really good son, and how you treat that boy. Observe how your friend treats his son...that is what your are working to be.

I had a son that was a mess when I divorced his mom. I had a grandson who was a really big mess after living with my ex for a couple of years. Everyone thought the grandson had ADHD...except me. Your son sounds so much like my grandson. Turns out that my grandson did not have ADHD, he was really angry. He couldn't tell you what he was angry about, just really mad. Dosen't matter, change the environment.

For a moment turn your emotions off. I am not saying this to be mean, blame, or fight with you. My friend, it is you, not him. You are doing it wrong, you need help. Get whatever resources available to task. His school has a psychiatrist, she already knows him. Approach her with the attitude of "What do I need to do?" Make no mistake here, the problem is home, not school. This is your son you are fighting for. You and I both know where this is heading. It is up to you to change the course.

I have a whole lot more I would like to share with you. If this rings true with you, feel free to message me. I can go on and on. A good boy is a pleasure to raise, I have done that. A bad boy is a nighmare, why would anyone choose to do that...well if you don't know how.
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:26   #45
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Consistency. Patience. The difference between authoritative and authoritarian. one hour a day limit to technology. Don't buy him a cell phone. No computer in his room. Do stuff with him. He should get As and Bs if he is a bright kid. Do not punish out of anger, especially any paddling. We could go on and on...
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:28   #46
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For God's sakes, do not give your children psychopathic drugs!

Don't buy into big pharmas' lies. Those meds are very powerful and mind altering.

Don't dope your kids up!!!
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Old 02-03-2013, 13:33   #47
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Wow, he's acting like he's 9 or something, you should medicate his so he acts like a zombie, then parenting will be easier.
The other kids in his class are 9 also but the teacher and principle are having problems with him. Not looking for the easy way out just a way to keep him on course without growing up hating me.
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Old 02-03-2013, 13:43   #48
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Wow, he's acting like he's 9 or something, you should medicate his so he acts like a zombie, then parenting will be easier.
While there are certainly people who do this, it's not the norm, and the way you're talking is part of the reason MANY MANY people who need help don't get it. Mis-treatment of ADD/ADHD is a real problem, and teachers who can't be bothered to deal with active boys are incredibly prone to mis- and over-diagnose it.

However, the meds (stimulants) do not turn kids into zombies, they either a) help calm them down and assist them in focusing, so they're normal, active, busy kids, but able to keep their focus as much as normal kids (maybe a little less, even with the meds), or b) get them hyped up and wild, in which case they don't have ADD/ADHD, and damn well shouldn't be taking them.

It's awfully easy to accuse people of taking the easy way out, but every family I've ever known tries medication as an absolute last resort, rather than a way to ditch out on parenting.

Long story short, I respect you and usually agree with what you have to say here, but in this case, you're talking out your ass, and IMHO should seriously reconsider your approach.
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Old 02-03-2013, 13:54   #49
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For God's sakes, do not give your children psychopathic drugs!

Don't buy into big pharmas' lies. Those meds are very powerful and mind altering.

Don't dope your kids up!!!
Right, it's so much better to let them continuously fail, despite their best efforts, and learn that they can't succeed no matter how hard they try, and for parents to yell, manipulate and shame them for years to just try harder.

The medications aren't anyone's first choice.

However, there's no way they are as toxic as being a smart kid who just can't make it work no matter how hard they try, and having everyone constantly tell you that you should be able to do it if you just try a little harder. The physical stress can actually cause kids to burn out and exhaust their adrenal glands, trying to push themselves into focusing with adrenaline rushes.

Later, as they get a little older they tend to drink massive amounts of coffee and soda, trying to get enough stimulant to focus.

If the situation can be fixed by a little better parenting, or more attention, or counseling, then by all means, that's what people should do. NOBODY wants to give their 9 year old kid amphetamines.

However, when your kid really does have ADD/ADHD, it's the right thing to do, because it's FAR less damaging than the alternatives (shame/yelling, self-medication, etc.), and the life of continuous partial failure that people with ADD/ADHD live.
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Old 02-03-2013, 14:04   #50
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Giving kids drugs to turn them into zombies without behavior modification is wrong. I know from personal experience. My kid matured and is doing well as a high school student. I saw what drugs were turning him into. They literally zombify kids.

Big pharma is lying to America. ADHD is an easy path for billion dollar profits at the expense of kids' sanity.

As far as talking out of my ass, I know what I saw.

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