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Old 02-02-2013, 21:15   #21
CanMan
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Glad you made it out unscathed!

Sorry your G29 is toast.

I'm with ilgunguygt on this one.... sounds like mighty hot ammo.
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Old 02-02-2013, 21:47   #22
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Well, the only time I've seen a smoked case is with a squib--and since you fired multiple rounds before the problem occurred, it seems more than possible you had a squib first then a regular round on top of it. With moderate to full loads, however, it seems unlikely you'd miss a squib (or near squib)--even shooting at speed.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:30   #23
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Deadandgone, you can send it to Glock in Georgia directly, (call to make the arrangements and shippng proceedure), they will provide you a new frame at a reasonable cost or maybe even free. You can explain the situation if they ask. I have heard of some getting new frame for free and some as little as $60 and new magazine for a few more $, but that was awhile back.

I have read about many case blow outs, and yours is typical! Glad you were not seriously hurt. Were these StarLine cases that blew out? The reason I ask is I see them as soft brass, not a bad thing for handloading because brass gets work hardened with use.

The SwampFox loads may have been too much period, Mike may have loaded them incorrectly thinking they were 10mm's! If you would like, you could send them to me and I would pull them and carefully document what is inside...I like doing pull-downs and understanding the dynamics that lead up to issues like you experienced. PM me if this would be of interest to further educate ourselves to what happened.

Best regards and hope you can get your G-29 fixed-up to once again be your shooter! Get well soon!
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:35   #24
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trying to tie up loose ends

Kaboom, the next day...

First, I changed the two pictures to show the cracked frame and my wounded hand. My hand actually looks worse today, but you get the idea.

I do not reload. Unable to answer mic questions or diameter ....all I can say is that the rounds fit into the 40 cal barrel. And the barrel is unscathed.

I am going to get another g29...not sure I trust any part of that gun now. The slide may be fine, but I don't want questions in my mind related to the explosion. I'm sure it is psychological...but for a carry self defense gun, you never want to wonder. Maybe I'll get it checked out someday. But I want my g29 back. The reasons that I wanted it in the first place are still there, reliability and performance. It shoots a very good self defense round, and can be concealed.

I don't believe a squib happened. I do remember enough of what happened to eliminate a "soft round"...there were consistent bangs and pushes against my hand until the kaboom. Only 4 rounds fired.

I suppose I had a dangerous misconception. I believed that my g29 could handle even "tricky" ammo. I believed it was invincible, especially up against puny 40 caliber stuff. Thus my temptation to try to shoot it with the Swamp Fox ammo.

The lesson learned is that bad ammo can blow up your glock. The self assurance that you have that you are shooting glock almighty is a false sense of security. Internet police, forgive me, but

BAD AMMO CAN BLOW UP YOUR GLOCK!!!!

Those who preach slowly going up on your powder loads are preaching the truth. Listen carefully and learn if you are reloading. Never think for one second that it can't happen to you. I am living proof(thank God) that it can happen. I am very lucky that I escaped serious injury. Getting off soapbox now.

I want to get back on the horse but I will have to wait. My hand is so sore that I will only pick up a gun to defend my life ....no practice for at least a couple of weeks. And I have no idea how long I will have to wait to get a g29....and that's ok. I have no problem waiting for what I want...I'm spoiled. Once you've got the g29 in your veins...you've got the fever.

Is it possible that a bullet that is slammed with powder actually could somehow increase pressure with age? The Swamp Fox ammo in question is almost three years old. I did shoot some of it when I first got it...other than being stout loads I never saw anything like what I've seen in the last two weeks. Not interested in chasing a ghost....just wondering.


And yes, starline brass
thanks to all

Last edited by deadandgone; 02-03-2013 at 10:37.. Reason: add info
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:53   #25
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Deadandgone my offer still stands about the ammo, I'd like to learn more! If you would like, you could send them to me and I would pull them and carefully document what is inside...I like doing pull-downs and understanding the dynamics that lead up to issues like you experienced. PM me if this would be of interest to further educate ourselves to what happened.

I'd even reimburse you the postage of a small flat rate mailer!
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:13   #26
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to the Shadow

pm sent
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Old 02-03-2013, 14:22   #27
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PM answered...
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Old 02-03-2013, 14:51   #28
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This isn't the first time we have heard of a KB with a G29 and Swampfox ammo. The last time it happened, as a result Mike created a downloaded 200 grain load at 1190 specifically intended for the 29. He was of the opinion this phenomenon was specific to the 29 and 200 grain ammunition.

Obviously this was incorrect.

Deadandgone, I am glad you are for the most part okay. It could have been much worse.

I will be interested to hear what Shadow comes up with when he pulls those bullets apart.
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Old 02-03-2013, 15:16   #29
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Deadandgone my offer still stands about the ammo, I'd like to learn more! If you would like, you could send them to me and I would pull them and carefully document what is inside...I like doing pull-downs and understanding the dynamics that lead up to issues like you experienced. PM me if this would be of interest to further educate ourselves to what happened.

I'd even reimburse you the postage of a small flat rate mailer!
You do not want to be mailing ammo USPS, with it being a federal offense for both parties. You are stuck sending it UPS or FedEx w/ haz mat/orm-d charges.
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Old 02-03-2013, 15:37   #30
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You do not want to be mailing ammo USPS, with it being a federal offense for both parties. You are stuck sending it UPS or FedEx w/ haz mat/orm-d charges.
Last time I ordered ammo from a big store it came USPS no haz. Just reg mail.

I read the rules the other day and I did not see anything about loaded ammo. Only power and explosives. Not one word about ammo.
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Old 02-03-2013, 15:52   #31
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Off the USPS website, not sure how it will format... If anyone sends you ammo you are taking a big risk. Do your own search, I'm not making this stuff up. Empty brass and component bullets OK, powder and/or primers a BIG no-no.

Cartridges, flash 1.1G UN0049 II Prohibited

Cartridges, flash 1.3G UN0050 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, blank 1.1C UN0326 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, blank 1.2C UN0413 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, blank or Cartridges, small arms, blank 1.3C UN0327 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, blank or Cartridges, small arms, blank 1.4C UN0338 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, blank or Cartridges, small arms, blank 1.4S UN0014 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, inert projectile 1.2C UN0328 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, inert projectile or Cartridges, small arms 1.3C UN0417 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, inert projectile or Cartridges, small arms 1.4C UN0339 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, inert projectile or Cartridges, small arms 1.4S UN0012 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, with bursting charge 1.1E UN0006 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, with bursting charge 1.1F UN0005 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, with bursting charge 1.2E UN0321 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, with bursting charge 1.2F UN0007 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, with bursting charge 1.4E UN0412 II Prohibited

Cartridges for weapons, with bursting charge 1.4F UN0348 II Prohibited

Cartridges, oil well 1.3C UN0277 II Prohibited

Cartridges, oil well 1.4C UN0278 II Prohibited

Cartridges, power device 1.2C UN0381 II Prohibited

Cartridges, power device 1.3C UN0275 II Prohibited

Cartridges, power device 1.4C UN0276 II Prohibited

Cartridges, power device 1.4S UN0323 II Prohibited

Cartridges, safety, blank, see Cartridges for weapons, blank (UN0014)

Cartridges, safety, see Cartridges for weapons, other than blank or Cartridges, power device (UN0323)

Cartridges, signal 1.3G UN0054 II Prohibited

Cartridges, signal 1.4G UN0312 II Prohibited

Cartridges, signal 1.4S UN0405 II Prohibited

Cartridges, small arms ORM–D Prohibited

Cartridges, sporting, see Cartridges for weapons, other than blank

Cartridges, starter, jet engine, see Cartridges, power device

Cases, cartridge, empty with primer 1.4S UN0055 II Prohibited

Cases, cartridges, empty with primer 1.4C UN0379 II Prohibited

Cases, combustible, empty, without primer 1.4C UN0446 II Prohibited



Cases, combustible, empty, without primer 1.3C UN0447 II Prohibited

Last edited by Any Cal.; 02-03-2013 at 15:58..
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Old 02-03-2013, 16:05   #32
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OUCH! UPS is probably the way to go then...
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Old 02-03-2013, 19:56   #33
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Damn government always making things harder.
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Old 02-03-2013, 19:59   #34
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Damn government always making things harder.
That's why the postoffice is broke...
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Old 02-03-2013, 21:12   #35
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That's why the postoffice is broke...
Yep. The government can't run the post office, the DMV, or Amtrack but they think they can do a good job at managing our healthcare. Be afraid.
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Old 02-03-2013, 23:22   #36
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If shipping ammo, UPS is the only way to go. USPS is a no-go. FedEx will do it with a HazMat agreement setup, so more of a hassle.

To ship UPS the box must be marked conspicously with "Cartridges Small Arms." Also, inside a large rectangle, you must put "ORM-D". It is pretty easily described on the UPS sight.

There is no hazmat for ammo. Also you will likely need to go directly to a UPS shipping center. The outlets and shipping stores typically will not accept ORM-D packages.

Last edited by Taterhead; 02-03-2013 at 23:32..
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Old 02-04-2013, 13:11   #37
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There is no hazmat for ammo.
Oops. Thanks for chiming in since that part of my earlier statement was less right than the rest...
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Old 02-06-2013, 13:47   #38
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gun gone to Glock

I called Glock on Shadow's advice. I explained that the gun is not stock, and that there was an explosion. I told them the whole truth because I want to know if the gun is still safe. I know the frame is toast, but I want them to look at the slide to see if there is any damage there. They said send it on, they will take a look at it, and they said a new frame would run around $100. I almost passed out....I figured a new frame would be much more than that. So it is on the way there, and in about two months I should have it back. By then this thread will be buried....but I promise to let everyone know how it all turns out.

Some bullets on the way to Shadow for him to examine. Honestly, at this point, nothing would surprise me. I would just say if you have any Swamp Fox ammo....be very, very careful.


My hand is healing nicely...still hurts but it is still there. When I think about how bad it could have been....

A couple of weeks from now I'll shoot some. Will I flinch? I wouldn't bet against it. Some dry fire exercises coming soon.
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Old 02-06-2013, 14:00   #39
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Deadandgone,

I'm sure you've seen the thread where Shadow and I (and others) disassemble some "SwampFox 200gr @ 1325fps" ammunition.

I actually did the pulling and measuring on two example rounds a member sent me. Well, one of the rounds had 9.4gr LS and the other had 10.0gr LS. THESE ROUNDS WERE FROM THE SAME BOX.

Shadow and I and others have both done our own workups to try and duplicate the numbers SF attained. I stopped my own workup at 9.4gr (as did Shadow IIRC)

I guess what I'm saying is, I'm glad you weren't hurt too badly and are getting your G29 back. That SF ammo was quite hot, bordering dangerous in that particular load.

Nick
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Old 02-06-2013, 17:13   #40
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Deadandgones Swamp Fox ammo arrived today. HERE is what was inside!

Cartridgeis from Ammo Manufacture: SwampFox Ammo 165gr GDHP
BallisticsInformation: 40S&W (Too HOT)
Advertized MuzzleVelocity: 1325 fps
Advertized MuzzleEnergy: 643 ft. lbs
BrassMake/Headstamp: Star Line – Brass
BulletMake/Weight/Construction/Info;Length 0.5780”/Dia.0.400”: Speer Gold Dot 165 gr.JHP actual weight 165.6 grains (heavy crimp bullet ring 0.3900”)
C.O.A.L.:1.1225”
Primer:Nickel color
Case:Diameter 0.4215” Crimp Diameter 0.4220” Length 0.8445”
PowderDescription/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: LongShot 10.0 grains
***(2.2 gr over Hodgdon's listed data)
Pictures: Before/After disassembly:
The 10 Ring


The 10 Ring
The 10 Ring

The 10 Ring

The 10 Ring

In my non-professional opinion I feel that Swamp Fox pushed this loading too far. 2.2 grains in this smaller 40S&W casing. This led to extreme over pressures which resulted in the brass casing's failure. The over pressure of expanding hot gas blew the casing head out, which bled this high pressure jet of gas down into the magazine well. The frame was compromised before the magazine was ejected. Without having seen or observed the damaged gun or the damaged cartridges or other cartridges ion person, I might speculate that, it was possible the gas was forced into the next cartridge at the top of the magazine, which may have ignited that charge of powder as well, to further add to the damage experienced.

This was a tragic event so, I wish to thank Deadandgone for sharing his experiences with us here on GlockTalk and wish him a speedy recovery.

Those of you who have some of SwamFox's ammo, you may want to get with someone who is a handloader to get a better understanding of what you have for safety sake!
Mike Willard is no longer with us (R.I.P.) to make things right.

add data 02/07/2013
Here is the run down of all 35 SwampFox Ammo 40S&W cartridges loaded with Hodgdon's LongShot powder, as pulled-down from Deadandgone box. Once again we wish to thank him for sharing so we can learn for this incident!

13 cartridges @ 09.6 gr / 11 cartridges @ 09.4 gr / 4 cartridges @ 09.8 gr / 4 cartridges @ 09.9 gr and 2 cartridges @ 10.0 gr

10.0 gr
09.9 gr
09.6 gr
09.4 gr
09.6 gr
09.6 gr
10.0 gr
09.6 gr
09.4 gr
09.9 gr
09.8 gr
09.8 gr
09.6 gr
09.8 gr
09.6 gr
09.8 gr
09.6 gr
09.6 gr
09.4 gr
09.6 gr
09.4 gr
09.4 gr
09.4 gr
09.6 gr
09.4 gr
09.4 gr
09.9 gr
09.8 gr
09.9 gr
09.4 gr
09.6 gr
09.6 gr
09.4 gr
09.6 gr

All loads were checked on two scales, the loads at 09.9 grains were for my balance beam RCBS 5-10 Scale these would have shown 09.8 on the digital because it only shows even numbers in the tenths column...
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Last edited by _The_Shadow; 02-07-2013 at 12:38..
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