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Old 09-14-2011, 08:49   #1
21Carrier
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How to get a 2.5lb Glock trigger pull with all stock parts

Recently, another GT member posted the following link in a General Glocking thread:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...l=trigger&st=0

The link is a thread in Brian's Forums in which a guy named Joe D (who incidentally lives in the same city as I do) describes how companies like Vanek and the like achieve such sweet Glock trigger pulls. Basically, you remove the trigger pad from the trigger bar, and drill new holes in the pad and bar. By relocating the pad higher and further forward on the bar, you get more mechanical advantage, a lighter pull, a better reset, less over-travel, and you can actually tune your trigger to your liking.

I decided to try the modification on my G21SF. My first attempt ended in semi-failure. It was an improvement, but had issues. So, I ordered four more trigger bars, and just finished getting it right. It takes some trial and error, but is REALLY worth the effort. If the stock trigger is 5.5lbs, mine is now 2.5lbs at the most. The pre-travel is maybe reduced a tad, the over-travel is almost gone, the break is still crisp, the pull is smooth, and the reset is not weak and spongy like with lighter connectors/springs.

I already have a thread about this in General Glocking, but it pretty quickly turned into a debate on why one should or should not have a light trigger. I figured you guys might appreciate it more.

Original thread:
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1368021


Here is how to do it:

1. Remove the trigger pad from trigger bar. To do this, you have to make a hole in the right side of the trigger so you can push the pin out (the top, metal pin, not the lower, plastic pin which holds on the trigger safety). If you tap on the pin, it will bulge the right side of the trigger, and you can get an idea of its location. Then drill a hole, and push it out. DO NOT just try to hammer it out. Doing so will break the whole right side of the trigger pad.

2. Drill a new hole in the trigger pad. You want to drill a hole up and to the right of the original (if looking at left side). The new hole should be .130" (measuring center to center) from the original, and should be 5/64" in diameter. See pictures below for location. Location of this hole is CRITICAL. Expect to mess up at least 1-2 pads. It took me three tries to get right. You can also tune your trigger to your liking by adjusting this. Drill the hole further to the rear, and pre-travel will be reduced. Drill closer to the front, and over-travel will be reduced. However, if you go too far in either direction, it will result in the loss of function of something (either safety function or firing function). Also, make sure your hole is STRAIGHT. Drilling from the right is actually better, since the right side is more important. The trigger attaches on the right side, so if your hole is not straight (like my first), it will really affect the trigger bar placement.

3. Drill a new hole in the trigger bar. Now, you want to drill a new hole in the trigger bar .130-.140" up the trigger bar (it should be centered). Joe D said to use .120" for "older" trigger bars. I'm not sure what makes one "older", but I used the "newer" .140" measurement. This is the hard part. The trigger bar is VERY hard to drill through. You will use the same 5/64" drill bit here, but expect to use up several. I used a DeWalt titanium split tip (2 actually), and Rigid cobalt bits. Once you get through the outer coating, the bit will cut right through.

4. Trim the bar. Now you have to trim the excess off the trigger bar. This is a simple affair with a Dremel and a cut-off wheel. It doesn't need to be special or pretty, just chop off the old hole, so it fits in the trigger pad.

5. OPTIONAL: Bend trigger spring tab forward. Joe D says to do this, and it should lighten the pull further (he claims to have gotten Glock pulls down to 14oz. after much experimentation). I found no need to go lighter, as mine is easily in the 2-2.5lb range already. Since this process sets the trigger bar further back at rest, bending the trigger spring tab forward (the bottom tab on trigger bar, under sear, where trigger spring attaches) gets the spring tension back up to normal. If you do this, you MUST heat the bar until a dull red while bending, or it WILL snap. I did not bother with this.

6. Reassemble and enjoy!

This really works, and makes the stock trigger feel great. You get none of the undesirable side effects of lighter connectors/springs, such as mushy break, weak reset, etc. It will take some luck, and trial and error, but for the cost of 3-4 trigger bars ($35-50), you get a GREAT trigger. If you get really lucky, you could do this for free if you have the tools. It cost me $24, since I messed up my first and second. I nailed it on the third.

Here are some pics:

These first two pictures are of the trigger bar hole. The first picture shows the modified bar on top of the stock bar. I know the cut off edge looks like crap, but I was anxious to test it, and you can't see it. It's fine like it is.
The 10 Ring

I forgot to take a picture before I cut off the end of the trigger bar (and the original hole), so I took this one. Stock is left, modified right. On the stock bar, you can see a mark where I started to drill a hole. I did that so you could see where to drill. It is about .130-.140" from the original (measure center to center). The heat discoloration is NOT from drill bit friction. It barely gets hot during drilling. That was from me heating it with a torch. My bits were dull, I was frustrated, my arms were tired, and I got desperate. It did nothing.
The 10 Ring

Here is the one that finally worked. The distance from the original hole (lower left hole) to the new hole (upper right) is about .130" measuring center to center.
The 10 Ring

The top one is the good one. The bottom is my original. Notice how my original was too far rearward, and too low. It pulled the trigger bar down too far, and would not deactivate the striker safety. Depending on where you drill the hole in the pad, you can get certain features. Further to the rear should reduce pre-travel, toward the front should reduce over-travel, etc.
The 10 Ring

Here's a shot of the right side of the pads. Again, the good one is on the top, original on bottom. It is hard to get the pin out without somewhat chewing up the plastic. I am going to fill the holes in with epoxy. Again, notice pin placement. One of the main problems with my original (bottom) was that my hole was not straight. It was lower on this side (right side), and the right side is more important since the trigger bar attaches on this side. Again, being so low prevented the striker safety from deactivating during the pull.
The 10 Ring

Here are all three pads. From bottom up, first, second and third. The top is the correct placement. The middle pad was too far forward, and the striker would not release. It was also too high, though that may not have been a problem. If you do this, just try to replicate the top one as best as possible.
The 10 Ring

Last edited by 21Carrier; 09-22-2011 at 12:56..
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:50   #2
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Sent you a request for 2 more measurements to help triangulate the new pad hole location, on the General Glock thread folder.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:05   #3
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Ok, I'll check it out.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:19   #4
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I was watching a TV show with some famous 1911 gunsmith.

He said that 2 lbs or less IS FOR RANGE ONLY!

He said AT LEAST 4 LBS FOR SELF DEFENCE.

He said in a stress situation you will fire as you draw with the lighter pull weight.

He was talking about 1911s but the same could well be true of any other handgun
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Last edited by lethal tupperwa; 09-14-2011 at 10:20..
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:25   #5
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Thanks for all the help you are offering with this carrier! I wish I had a dremel tool, Im thinking im going to have to get one soon since it seems to me that you could put your glock in orbit around the moon with your dremel!
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:28   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lethal tupperwa View Post
I was watching a TV show with some famous 1911 gunsmith.

He said that 2 lbs or less IS FOR RANGE ONLY!

He said AT LEAST 4 LBS FOR SELF DEFENCE.

He said in a stress situation you will fire as you draw with the lighter pull weight.

He was talking about 1911s but the same could well be true of any other handgun
He is speculating...anyone who knows anything about pistols knows not to put your finger near the trigger till you have it pointed where you want it...admittedly things are different in high stress situations, but ive trained myself so that it is second nature any time I touch my gun my fingers go nowhere near the trigger...thanks for the reminder though...
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:33   #7
21Carrier
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I did some more measuring and took some more pictures for ModGlock17. They should help anyone who wants to do this locate the new trigger pad hole. Here's my post from the other thread copied here:

Ok, I measured from the center of the new hole to the bottom corner of the trigger (near where the ridge intersects the bottom, but use the actual corner as the reference). It measured .360". Measuring from the top of the ridge (again, using the corner formed by that ridge as a reference) to the center of the new hole is .320". I also took a better measurement of the distance between the old and new holes, and mine is actually right at .130", NOT .120".

Here are some pictures of my measurements:

The 10 Ring

The 10 Ring

I also just did some more dry-firing, and compared it to my G29, which is stock besides the Ghost Tactical 5.0 connector, and it feels amazing. The trigger is so light and smooth, and the reset is still nice and firm. I also noticed, for the first time, that the G29 almost feels like a DA/SA gun. If you're shooting from the reset, the lack of over-travel makes the trigger pull so short it basically feels like a SA. The new G21 trigger is also really short (shooting from reset). I might have to order a Ghost Tactical 5.0 connector for it as well. This trigger with ZERO reset, and that SA feel would be amazing.

ModGlock17, if you do this, good luck with it. If you get it right, you will love it.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 09-22-2011 at 12:57..
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:34   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arushus View Post
He is speculating...anyone who knows anything about pistols knows not to put your finger near the trigger till you have it pointed where you want it...admittedly things are different in high stress situations, but ive trained myself so that it is second nature any time I touch my gun my fingers go nowhere near the trigger...thanks for the reminder though...
Exactly!

Rule #2: finger OUTSIDE trigger guard until you're ready to shoot.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:38   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
I did some more measuring and took some more pictures for ModGlock17. .....

ModGlock17, if you do this, good luck with it. If you get it right, you will love it.
Very well, thank you Sir.

You know I will try. Can't pass up something like this!
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:39   #10
21Carrier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lethal tupperwa View Post
I was watching a TV show with some famous 1911 gunsmith.

He said that 2 lbs or less IS FOR RANGE ONLY!

He said AT LEAST 4 LBS FOR SELF DEFENCE.

He said in a stress situation you will fire as you draw with the lighter pull weight.

He was talking about 1911s but the same could well be true of any other handgun
Let me make this clear, here and now. I am using this trigger for the RANGE ONLY. If it ever gets carried, the stock trigger will be swapped back in. I am not advocating this trigger for carry, but it COULD be carried safely by someone who practices safe gun control, AND who regularly trains. I will be PISSED if this turns into another "why one should or should not lighten their trigger" debate. My first thread in General Glocking went that way, so if that's what you want to talk about, go there. You will find plenty of people to argue that point with you.

There are thousands upon thousands of 1911s with VERY light SA triggers. This trigger is light, but still has a longer, DA pull. Also, there are TONS of Glocks out there with Vanek and other triggers that are essentially the same thing, but with lighter springs and connectors, so they might even be lighter. No one is getting hit by stray bullets from them.

PLEASE, I'm BEGGING you guys. PLEASE don't turn this into a trigger weight debate. My carry gun is stock besides a Ghost Tactical 5.0 connector, and I think carry guns should be in the 5.0lb range, but not all do. If you want to debate trigger weight in carry guns, start a thread about it, because this one is NOT ABOUT THAT!

Last edited by 21Carrier; 09-14-2011 at 10:41..
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:00   #11
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21,

I was looking at aftermarket drop-in trigger sets selling for $100+, they do have a different point of connection much like this Joe D Trigger. Look at the pictures (glockworx Fulcrum). The secret is outed.

And if you'd notice, Joe D disappeared from the discussion back in 2008 (?).

Last edited by ModGlock17; 09-14-2011 at 11:04..
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:03   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModGlock17 View Post
21,

I was looking at aftermarket drop-in trigger sets selling for $100+, they do have a different point of connection much like this Joe D Trigger. Look at the pictures. The secret is outed.

And if you'd notice, Joe D disappeared from the discussion back in 2008 (?).
Yeah, I've always suspected they had altered geometry. That's really the only way that the pull could be further lightened. Once you max out spring rates, eliminate friction, and push the connector geometry, there's only one thing left. And that's pivot point geometry. I also noticed Joe D disappeared. Holy crap, there's a black helicopter outside my window!!!
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:24   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
Yeah, I've always suspected they had altered geometry. That's really the only way that the pull could be further lightened. Once you max out spring rates, eliminate friction, and push the connector geometry, there's only one thing left. And that's pivot point geometry. I also noticed Joe D disappeared. Holy crap, there's a black helicopter outside my window!!!


Nah, just Obama campaigning for 2012.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:17   #14
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Nah, just Obama campaigning for 2012.
I almost said something stupid. Then I remembered I was talking about the president. If I had said it, black helicopters may have become a real possibility.
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Old 09-14-2011, 19:13   #15
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If they sent Helos for every negative about this Pres, they'ed have to build more helos!
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Old 09-14-2011, 19:24   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
Let me make this clear, here and now. I am using this trigger for the RANGE ONLY. If it ever gets carried, the stock trigger will be swapped back in. I am not advocating this trigger for carry, but it COULD be carried safely by someone who practices safe gun control, AND who regularly trains. I will be PISSED if this turns into another "why one should or should not lighten their trigger" debate. My first thread in General Glocking went that way, so if that's what you want to talk about, go there. You will find plenty of people to argue that point with you.

There are thousands upon thousands of 1911s with VERY light SA triggers. This trigger is light, but still has a longer, DA pull. Also, there are TONS of Glocks out there with Vanek and other triggers that are essentially the same thing, but with lighter springs and connectors, so they might even be lighter. No one is getting hit by stray bullets from them.

PLEASE, I'm BEGGING you guys. PLEASE don't turn this into a trigger weight debate. My carry gun is stock besides a Ghost Tactical 5.0 connector, and I think carry guns should be in the 5.0lb range, but not all do. If you want to debate trigger weight in carry guns, start a thread about it, because this one is NOT ABOUT THAT!
Sorry 21, I wasnt trying to perpetuate the "to lighten your trigger or not" debate, I just had to show everyone the other side of that guys argument...
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Old 09-14-2011, 19:32   #17
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I would love to trigger a debate (pun).
But, I am busy bashing liberals elsewhere.
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Old 09-14-2011, 19:37   #18
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I would love to trigger a debate (pun).
But, I am busy bashing liberals elsewhere.
sounds fun! where do I need to go to join in?
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Old 09-14-2011, 19:46   #19
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I would love to trigger a debate (pun).
But, I am busy bashing liberals elsewhere.
Man's gotta what a man's gotta do!
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Old 09-14-2011, 22:32   #20
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21,

I hereby nominating you for an honorary Masters Degree in Engineering.

The measurement set .130/.340/.320 works very well for my G20. VERY sweet! I have it with Ghost Tactical, 4# firing pin spring, 6# trigger spring. Very Crisp break and reset. Light and like guacamole on a crisp corn chip. There is no need to do any more improvement on the G20. It is perfect for me right now.

The next trigger I did, has the measurement of .130/.345/.315 because of poor lighting so I missed the hole location a bit. It goes on my G29. This one is vague and difficult to anticipate the break. Only surprises. very soft. So I switch out firing pin spring from 4# to stock 5# to get a better feel. It has Ghost rocket. I switched and tried LWD 3.5, but it felt too heavy for some reason. I think it would be best with Ghost tactical.

I have a few suggestions. First, to take out the pin in the trigger, you don't have to drive it all the way to the right side. Once you knock the left side a bit to see the bulge on the right side, use a pick (right angle, they sell a set for hobbyists) and drive it into top of the bulge. You can slowly drive the pin back and out of the left side. This way the right side doesn't look ugly. just a small hole.

Once you determine the precise location for the holes, use a metal punch to press mark it with a dent at that location. Then the drill bit will fit into that nicely and won't run on you.

On the trigger bar, polish it up at the new hole location with sand paper. Then mark it with a punch several time at the same locaton. It took me about 30 sec to drill it with a cobalt bit. Smooth polish them out.

When you drill the new hole in the trigger, don't drill all the way through. Just enough to accommodate the pin length.

I also suspect that although both the full size model and subcompact model use the same trigger design, they fit differently. This means each has a preferred measurement set to locate the hole, meaning you can't get the same feel with the same measurement set, if you go across pistol sizes, meaning there is a set of measurement that will work great for the G20 but not G29.

Great job, 21. Good stuff. My G20 is perfect now.
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