[fredj338]

Yes, we have established Kali is a lost cause. The best thing to do for the smart ones, plan to move. Seriously, there is no way this state goes anywhere but further into the toilet. If they screw with prop 13, I am selling my hosue @ whatever price I can get & I am gone in less than 2m. If I have to rent a 1BR apt in Montana, fine, but I am not giving this Fduped state a dime more of my money.

[dkf]

Originally Posted by EL_NinO619

Hey Fred look at this, you all should just be glad your not in CA.

http://www.kcra.com/news/politics/Bi...v/-/index.html

Some moron rep in my state is pushing something similar for carry permit holders.

Another bunch of morons have a bill to ban gun ownership and carry for anyone whom has ever seen a psychiatrist, therapist or taken any meds for depression, anxiety and etc at ANY point in their life. Most LE would be prohibited.

The anti nutters are trying any angle to try and push something through. Keep a watch out and do your best to fight it.

[G31]

Originally Posted by ron59

Fred..... why budget and plan when it's so much more fun to ***** and moan?

G31....sorry to hear about your financial problems. What that *means*, is that in this time of shortages, you just don't shoot? You said that for yourself, (or these "others" you keep mentioning) shooting is not a priority. Well, with that being a case, NOT getting to shoot doesn't really hurt that much, does it?

Reread the posts, as I have no budget issues. No, I am not claiming my friends have issues, when I really mean I do. I am not in a bad position, and didn't participate in this panic buying BS. I got a few extra mags for a few guns when I saw the writing on the wall, but that's it (paid normal price too.) I also built up another AR with normally-priced components, just because I wanted to see how hard it would be. Luckily, it only took one month to secure all of the parts from the various internet vendors. Here it is:
It is mostly BCM and PSA parts. Some oddballs, like the Smith Ent. Vortex and bipod are not. The only piece I had prior to this mess was my $59 PSA lower. It sports a Leupold 3-9x40 VX-II.

[G31]

Originally Posted by fredj338

Well, I can shoot 45acp for a little more than 22lr, casting my own bullets. You are right, there is more going on in the world than shooting, BUT, if it is a priorty for you, then you budget for it & pass on other things. Snow boarding in Dec or buy 5K primers? I can always go snowboarding, as you've learned, can't always buy primers. See, pretty simple to prioritize hobbies & the funds for them.
Still, buying small ball is costing you more per round, pure & simple. So it's pretty bad economics to pay more for something when you can easily pay less. If your neighbor bought a reloading setup 6m ago, he should have also bought a year supply of components. Noobs get a pass though, exp shooters, shame on you for not paying attention. Ammo & reloading stuff was readily available thru Xmas. People will always make excuses for their poor decisions. It's why this country is going the direction it is going.

What you say is generally true, and I agree, to a point. It's just not necessary to make someone look like a dumb ass because they didn't "prepare" they way some people think they should have. That's it, really. It annoyed me, for some reason.

[F106 Fan]

Originally Posted by dkf

Some moron rep in my state is pushing something similar for carry permit holders.

Another bunch of morons have a bill to ban gun ownership and carry for anyone whom has ever seen a psychiatrist, therapist or taken any meds for depression, anxiety and etc at ANY point in their life. Most LE would be prohibited.

The anti nutters are trying any angle to try and push something through. Keep a watch out and do your best to fight it.

I read on CNN today that some folks are proposing to deny 2d Amendment rights to veterans with PTSD.

They weren't messed up before we sent them to the sandbox.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/04/politi...iref=allsearch

Richard

[EL_NinO619]

Originally Posted by f106 fan

i read on cnn today that some folks are proposing to deny 2d amendment rights to veterans with ptsd.

They weren't messed up before we sent them to the sandbox.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/04/politi...iref=allsearch

richard

f that!!!

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by G31

What you say is generally true, and I agree, to a point. It's just not necessary to make someone look like a dumb ass because they didn't "prepare" they way some people think they should have. That's it, really. It annoyed me, for some reason.

Well, it's equally annoying to many of us that did prepare or stay prepared. There is an awful lot of whining about not having ammo or primers, when 15min on the internet, even in late Dec, would have solved a years worth of anguish. So I can see both sides. Like I said, I feel for the noobs, but the guys that were shooting back in 08, how could you not have seen this coming? It seems far too many people want hand holding & political correctness these days. Also annoying.

[dkf]

Originally Posted by F106 Fan

I read on CNN today that some folks are proposing to deny 2d Amendment rights to veterans with PTSD.

They weren't messed up before we sent them to the sandbox.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/04/politi...iref=allsearch

Richard

They just will not seek treatment voluntarily, plain and simple. They will either get through it on their own, end up being committed against their will or go bat**** crazy causing harm to themselves or others.

Penalizing people for seeking treatment for themselves is a bad idea on so many levels it should be obvious.

[fredj338]

COnsider this though. ALmost all mass shootings, the suspect has mental problems. Since you can not force someone to take medication unless they are locked up, how does one propose to deal with the real issue of mass shootings, which is mental health. I don't want to see a mil vet have his rights taken away, but unless you offer up some other form of dealing with this huge issue fo mental health, ban all the guns you want, it won't stop mentally unstable poeple from killing others in fits of rage.
You do have to have some rules in society. Felons convicted of violent crimes, adjudcated mental patience, none should own guns. They shouldn't own knive or cars either, but you have to have some rules. Either that, or lets go back to the 1870s & let everyone carry a gun. An armed society is a polite society. Unfortunately what we have now is an elitist society where the likes of ****enstein & Reed get to carry guns & many of us do not. Then the super elite like PBO get 24/-7 armed security for their entire family. The rich can get CCW in states none of us can. So yeah, there needs to be some mofo change.

[Colorado4Wheel]

No one should have their rights taken away for trying a medication that the Doctor said might help them. But if the Doctor is convinced they are unstable and a threat then that is a different story. The hard part is finding a reasonable way to determine that with out the Doctor having unilateral ability to just say "This entire group should never own guns". Some gun hating Doctor could go on his own private war to make that happen. Clearly people who are Psychotic should not be allowed to own guns. Mild Depression is not Psychotic in nature. But Depression with Psychotic Feature is Major Depression and deserves to be treated differently.

[EL_NinO619]

Someone who fought for our 2nd Amendment should not lose their rights over a mental illness, a mental illness is just that, a illness and can be treated. Someone who is mentally defective is another point I.e. straight jacket type. Those meds do more harm than good in my opinion, unless you are being treated by a psychologist, regular MD should not be able to write script for these things. They are powerful drugs that a MD knows nothing about nor does he monitor you like a psych. Non the less if a soldier is struggling they should have options to let family hold guns during recovery and once they are cleared as mentally stable rights returned ASAP. But just suffering from PTSD is not enough to disarm a law abiding military citizen, we cannot try to predict future crimes like minority report. If he shows signs take action, all of these shooting the family and friends all noticed a unstable mindset yet kept quiet. I personally won't stand for a soldier being discriminated on, the gov has already put them on the terrorist watch list which is BS IMHO.

[F106 Fan]

To add to the discussion, I read somewhere else that there was a bill in the Senate that would deny gun ownership to those who have had prescriptions for certain medications such as anti-depressants.

http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/pati...tional-rights/

I wonder how that will affect law enforcement...

What about acne medication? Remember the kid who drove and airplane into a building? He was using some type of acne medication that was assumed to be the cause of his mood swings.

Richard

[dkf]

The thing is many medications are used for treating several different things. For instance Depakote can be used to treat depression however it is most commonly known and used to treat seizures. I sure hope the same people fighting to legalize marijuana are not the same people advocating loss of 2A rights for taking certain legal prescription meds. Although it would not surprise me.

[EL_NinO619]

Originally Posted by dkf

The thing is many medications are used for treating several different things. For instance Depakote can be used to treat depression however it is most commonly known and used to treat seizures. I sure hope the same people fighting to legalize marijuana are not the same people advocating loss of 2A rights for taking certain legal prescription meds. Although it would not surprise me.

Of course it is, drugs are good and killing 50,000 unborn babies is legit, it's just the guns that are bad. No pile of dead babies is to high for the liberals to climb to disarm us.

[Colorado4Wheel]

Originally Posted by EL_NinO619

Someone who fought for our 2nd Amendment should not lose their rights over a mental illness, a mental illness is just that, a illness and can be treated. Someone who is mentally defective is another point I.e. straight jacket type.

Those terms are incorrect.

Mental Illness is Defined by the DSM Manual. It's on version IV TR. There is nothing in the manual about Mental Defective. That does not exist. Serious Psychotic disorders are exactly that SERIOUS. They warrant the person NOT OWNING GUNS. Sorry, It doesn't mater if they served in the Military or not. That has no bearing to whether they are a potential danger to society.

[F106 Fan]

I would expect that a significant proportion of the older folks (myself included) are using Beta Blockers.

A secondary use for this medication is to treat "social and anxiety disorders".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_blocker

These drugs are also used to mitigate certain stressors in activities such as driving race cars:

http://books.google.com/books?id=GMi...rivers&f=false

Just a little something for everybody!

Richard

[EL_NinO619]

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

Those terms are incorrect.

Mental Illness is Defined by the DSM Manual. It's on version IV TR. There is nothing in the manual about Mental Defective. That does not exist. Serious Psychotic disorders are exactly that SERIOUS. They warrant the person NOT OWNING GUNS. Sorry, It doesn't mater if they served in the Military or not. That has no bearing to whether they are a potential danger to society.

Again there is a difference between the standard PTSD and bat **** crazy!. If they tried this 60% of soldiers would be disarmed. Half of PTSD troops are still in service, you going to ban them from the use of firearms in the sand box. They also pump anti psycothics in them while their on the battlefield. I am not saying just because you served your rights can't be taken away if your mental, I am just saying 99.9% of troops with PTSD are very capable of living a normal life with adequate treatment and support. What I am saying is I refuse to even remotly support something that belittles our soldiers. If you suffering from PTSD the last thing you need is people making you feel more like ****!!

[sellersm]

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

Those terms are incorrect.

Mental Illness is Defined by the DSM Manual. It's on version IV TR. There is nothing in the manual about Mental Defective. That does not exist. Serious Psychotic disorders are exactly that SERIOUS. They warrant the person NOT OWNING GUNS. Sorry, It doesn't mater if they served in the Military or not. That has no bearing to whether they are a potential danger to society.

C4W, have you looked at the latest DSM? I'll bet 99% of us on this forum fit in one (or more) of their classifications!! It's been "liberalized" over the years, covering a broader and broader population. Let's say they tie legal gun ownership only to people NOT classified under a DSM diagnosis! What then?

I live daily with this type of stuff, no easy answers, but the best solution is to get the .gov off our backs and stop messing with our rights!

[Boxerglocker]

Originally Posted by EL_NinO619

Again there is a difference between the standard PTSD and bat **** crazy!. If they tried this 60% of soldiers would be disarmed. Half of PTSD troops are still in service, you going to ban them from the use of firearms in the sand box. They also pump anti psycothics in them while their on the battlefield. I am not saying just because you served your rights can't be taken away if your mental, I am just saying 99.9% of troops with PTSD are very capable of living a normal life with adequate treatment and support. What I am saying is I refuse to even remotly support something that belittles our soldiers. If you suffering from PTSD the last thing you need is people making you feel more like ****!!

[Colorado4Wheel]

Originally Posted by sellersm

C4W, have you looked at the latest DSM? I'll bet 99% of us on this forum fit in one (or more) of their classifications!! It's been "liberalized" over the years, covering a broader and broader population. Let's say they tie legal gun ownership only to people NOT classified under a DSM diagnosis! What then?

I live daily with this type of stuff, no easy answers, but the best solution is to get the .gov off our backs and stop messing with our rights!

Yes I actually have read the ENTIRE DSM 4. But you are missing my point entirely, we actually agree.

My point is that there are a lot of things in the DSM that are relatively simple and not a concern to gun ownership. But the DSM does define SEVERE mental illness. That can not be ignored when it comes to gun ownership no matter how they became "Severely Mentally Ill" The bigger issue is that the DSM is for Mental Health Professional. The Medical profession has a entirely different set of standards. So it si very hard to pick what severe is despite the information.

Basically, what I am saying is

"It's a mess and not easily resolved."

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by dkf

The thing is many medications are used for treating several different things. For instance Depakote can be used to treat depression however it is most commonly known and used to treat seizures. I sure hope the same people fighting to legalize marijuana are not the same people advocating loss of 2A rights for taking certain legal prescription meds. Although it would not surprise me.

Oh sure they are! Liberals are the biggest hypocrits on just about everything. What we should do is ban the Dem/socialist/communist/progressive parties. That would probably improve things 100% across the planet.

[BobbyS]

Originally Posted by fredj338

Oh sure they are! Liberals are the biggest hypocrits on just about everything. What we should do is ban the Dem/socialist/communist/progressive parties. That would probably improve things 100% across the planet.

Joe McCarthy tried and he got shut down. The FBI has files on all the Kommie actors and such. Trouble is......the crazies are running the nut house.

[BobbyS]

Originally Posted by EL_NinO619

Again there is a difference between the standard PTSD and bat **** crazy!. If they tried this 60% of soldiers would be disarmed. Half of PTSD troops are still in service, you going to ban them from the use of firearms in the sand box. They also pump anti psycothics in them while their on the battlefield. I am not saying just because you served your rights can't be taken away if your mental, I am just saying 99.9% of troops with PTSD are very capable of living a normal life with adequate treatment and support. What I am saying is I refuse to even remotly support something that belittles our soldiers. If you suffering from PTSD the last thing you need is people making you feel more like ****!!

I agree!

I will say it again. Have we seen thousands upon thousands of people getting gunned down every year by the hundeds of thousands of vets that have PTSD? NO!

That dog don't hunt!

[F106 Fan]

Originally Posted by BobbyS

I agree!

I will say it again. Have we seen thousands upon thousands of people getting gunned down every year by the hundeds of thousands of vets that have PTSD? NO!

That dog don't hunt!

Well, the Chris Kyle shooting doesn't support the idea that PTSD victims are safe to hang with. Of course it's an individual situation and I certainly don't have any solution to the problem.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...,4399993.story

I don't think the military does near enough to support the people they have damaged. For decades they have denied that there was a problem.

Richard

[BobbyS]

Originally Posted by F106 Fan

Well, the Chris Kyle shooting doesn't support the idea that PTSD victims are safe to hang with. Of course it's an individual situation and I certainly don't have any solution to the problem.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...,4399993.story

I don't think the military does near enough to support the people they have damaged. For decades they have denied that there was a problem.

Richard

The Chris Kyle tragedy was an isolated event. If all vets with PTSD were really psycho whack jobs, we would see thousands of shootings each year.