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Old 04-24-2013, 15:05   #1
m2hmghb
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Alert: action on the powder front

Never mind.
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Old 04-24-2013, 17:55   #2
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Democrats (and some republicans) are like a bad case of genital warts.

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Old 04-24-2013, 18:05   #3
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Back in the day, the Feds had everyone that bought pistol ammo show ID & it was logged. After years of this, they decided it does nothing to prevent crime & repealed it. Much like the laws against making bombs did not prevent the recent killings in Boston.
Once again, no one wants to see the actual problem. Incompetent govt employees dropping the ball yet once again. The bill we can't get passed is the one for mandatory term limits on EVERY govt employee, no more retirement, & outrageous benefit packages & gross incompetence at every level.
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Old 04-24-2013, 21:43   #4
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back in the day, the feds had everyone that bought pistol ammo show id & it was logged. After years of this, they decided it does nothing to prevent crime & repealed it. Much like the laws against making bombs did not prevent the recent killings in boston.
Once again, no one wants to see the actual problem. Incompetent govt employees dropping the ball yet once again. The bill we can't get passed is the one for mandatory term limits on every govt employee, no more retirement, & outrageous benefit packages & gross incompetence at every level.
a m e n !
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:02   #5
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...Incompetent govt employees dropping the ball yet once again. The bill we can't get passed is the one for mandatory term limits on EVERY govt employee, no more retirement, & outrageous benefit packages & gross incompetence at every level.
Hey Fred, once again you have lambasted EVERY gov't employee and lumped them into the same category as Congress and POTUS.

I worked away in (Federal) gov't like every working stiff out there in the private sector, retiring after 20 years (counting Navy service). But I retired young by most standards and my retirement annuity is a very humbling amount - my Social Security amount is much greater. I suspect that most posters on here do, or will, collect SS.

The alternative to gov't employees to supply services, is gov't contractors - and that hasn't worked out so great either in many cases.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:16   #6
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Hey Fred, once again you have lambasted EVERY gov't employee and lumped them into the same category as Congress and POTUS.

I worked away in (Federal) gov't like every working stiff out there in the private sector, retiring after 20 years (counting Navy service). But I retired young by most standards and my retirement annuity is a very humbling amount - my Social Security amount is much greater. I suspect that most posters on here do, or will, collect SS.

The alternative to gov't employees to supply services, is gov't contractors - and that hasn't worked out so great either in many cases.
WHile there are exceptions in every govt position, including my father, retired LEO, you can NOT sit there though & tell me that all govt employees are hard working & earn their rather fat retirement/health care benefits? I know govt employees don't like being lumped together, but they also stand by & let it happen top protect their own jobs & benefit packages.
I worked govt sector too, public unions too, I know that most of those employees, including the vaunted LEO & FD do as little as possible to collect a pay check & benefits that I have little say as to it's size. It needs to change drastically.
Right now EVERY govt agency, state, city, county & Feds is hemorrhaging money due to govt employees pay & retirements. All at the tax payer expense. I've said it for decades, w/o a strong private sector, there is no govt sector. Greece comes to mind, & we are quickly heading there.
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Old 04-25-2013, 13:03   #7
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Any job that you can go to work or not as you please, do something or nothing if you wish if you do show up, give yourself a raise,and have the accountability of a weatherman when you lie, is what Fred is talking about.
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Old 04-25-2013, 13:14   #8
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Any job that you can go to work or not as you please, do something or nothing if you wish if you do show up, give yourself a raise,and have the accountability of a weatherman when you lie, is what Fred is talking about.
Exactly! I am accountable for what I do EVERY single day. I can be fired for having a single bad day. I've seen FD watch a house burn because of some stupid tax issue. LEO drive the other way on a call where shots were fired, shoot & kill innocent people by incompetence. GSA & many others spending money on retreats & "meetings" to accomplish nothing. Teachers getting pay increases for having graduation rates of 55%. The list is long & painful. Ignoring the facts won't change things. Unions at any level, are like socialism, it only breeds complacency. There are always a few diligent employees anywhere, I tried to be when I did work union & a govt job, but they are rare & used to head for the private sector. Not anymore, it's too easy having any govt job vs the same job in the private sector.
How to fix it? NO govt employee shall make more than his private sector counterpart. If I take a cut in pay, so do you.
No more socialist defined benefits. Paying people to NOT work is ridiculous. Paying them to not work longer than they did work, is criminal. A 401K style retirement plan was adopted by the private sector 30yrs ago, it's over due in the govt.
Put all govt employees on the crappy Medicare program or let them pay their own way like the rest of us.
Pay raises at every level of govt MUST be approved by their employers, the tax payers, or they get no pay raise. This would also make govt employees accountable for what they do or do not do. Those are simple things, easily done by a leader with balls.

The govt, at every level, is like an obese person. They are hungry all the time & need ever increasing food intake but claim they want to lose weight, The only way that happens is take the food away. So govt will NEVER go on a diet if we continue to give them more money. If we can't afford it, then make the cuts, don't increase the taxes. Govt made promises it can't keep, not my problem or yours, it's theirs to clean up. Reagan had the model, renegotiate or fire them all & rehire them @ affordable wages & benefits.
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"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".

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Old 04-25-2013, 15:33   #9
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Well the Constitution of Idaho makes it illegal to enforce this law should it pass! To bad for you in other states! See this is what freedom is- you want it FIGHT FOR IT!
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Old 04-25-2013, 17:09   #10
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Well the Constitution of Idaho makes it illegal to enforce this law should it pass! To bad for you in other states! See this is what freedom is- you want it FIGHT FOR IT!
Do not count on your state legislators upholding the Idaho Constitution. Given the right opportunity they will toss the State and US Constitution aside, for their own personal gain, just as they did in Colorado.
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Old 04-25-2013, 17:59   #11
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Do not count on your state legislators upholding the Idaho Constitution. Given the right opportunity they will toss the State and US Constitution aside, for their own personal gain, just as they did in Colorado.
Much like Kalif, the voters are again to blame. If people can't vote beyond their paychecks or welfare, well, you get what you have in Kalif & now Co & more states to follow. I don't really blame the corrupt, incompetent, self serving morons in office, the vast majority are their to line their own pockets. I blame the voter. Geeze man! People like Harry Reed, Pelosi, Boxer, Durbin, Biden, etc, that is the best we can put up to run things!? The avg person knows more about American Idol than the politicians running their lives. Sad.
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"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".

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Old 04-25-2013, 19:12   #12
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Across the board term limits would go a long way.
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Old 04-25-2013, 20:32   #13
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Across the board term limits would go a long way.
^This! And do away with these 'secret talks' to exempt their cronies from Obamacare! http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...quester-delays
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Old 04-25-2013, 22:31   #14
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Across the board term limits would go a long way.
Congress will never vote themselves out of a job, aint gonna happen.
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"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
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Old 04-25-2013, 23:17   #15
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Much like Kalif, the voters are again to blame. If people can't vote beyond their paychecks or welfare, well, you get what you have in Kalif & now Co & more states to follow
The reason other States follow is due in large part because of people fleeing the State where they voted in the Goverment that spun out of control.

This is why I think that if you leave a State after you messed it up, all of your wealth and property should have to stay there. AKA exit tax.

Make them think before they just pick up and move to CO and commence to turning it into the same mess they escaped from.

The ability to have a "do over" doesn't make the idea right. The way it works now people are like someone that has lung cancer from smoking that goes into remission so they take up smoking again.

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Old 04-26-2013, 00:08   #16
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...A 401K style retirement plan was adopted by the private sector 30yrs ago, it's over due in the govt.
Okay Fred... I better catch you up on a couple of things...

Federal employees (and military) have the TSP (Thrift Savings Plan) - basically the same as a 401K with contributions from the employee and some matching contributions fom gov't. The rules, expectations, and functions are like those of a 401. TSP has been in gov't since I started in gov't in 1992.

The old Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) is long gone and not offered any longer - but grandfathered for those who were under it before FERS. The new system is FERS - Federal Employee Retirement System and in that system the Fed employee's retirement consists of a small FERS annuity, social security, and TSP. (CSRS employees don't pay into SS and cannot collect it unless from the quarters from another job. The CSRS employee also has a different TSP structure from FERS.)

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Put all govt employees on the crappy Medicare program or let them pay their own way like the rest of us.
I am on crappy Medicare - like ALL FERS retirees. However, I also elected to keep my Blue Cross plan from gov't - for which I pay about 1/2 the premiums in retirement. I am also a disabled veteran and use VA for healthcare. You may say that I have triple-redundant healthcare. All I know is... I never pay anything for healthcare beyond my Blue Cross partial premium and 8 bucks for 90 day scrips fom VA.

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The govt, at every level, is like an obese person. They are hungry all the time & need ever increasing food intake but claim they want to lose weight, The only way that happens is take the food away. So govt will NEVER go on a diet if we continue to give them more money. If we can't afford it, then make the cuts, don't increase the taxes. Govt made promises it can't keep, not my problem or yours, it's theirs to clean up. Reagan had the model, renegotiate or fire them all & rehire them @ affordable wages & benefits.
Governments on all levels have a responsibility to govern its people. Something, someone, has to make this thing tick. If gov't employees don't do it, gov't hires private sector contractors to do it for them. In the end, it's the same mess as the private guys are contractually overseen by the gov't guys. Ya still need money to make this thing work. How wisely those monies may be spent is yet another topic for discussion.

BTW, I was furloughed (under Clinton) over Christmas for 3 weeks in 1995-96, didn't expect to get paid, but was happy to have the time off - even w/o pay. When they called us back, the gov't ended up paying us for those 3 weeks off anyway. Not everyone was laid off then, but I was NON-essential. (That would be all of gov't in your way of thinking Fred.) Since a very large majority of non-essential support people were laid off, the remaining essential people couldn't do much anyway.

You are no doubt talking about the Air Traffic Controllers with Reagan. Now, this time around the ATCs are getting laid off like the rest of the non-essentials.

ETA: I could wallpaper a fair-sized wall with the atta-girls I got over my years in gov't - and I also received a few cash bonuses during my tenure.

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Old 04-26-2013, 10:55   #17
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Okay Fred... I better catch you up on a couple of things...

Federal employees (and military) have the TSP (Thrift Savings Plan) - basically the same as a 401K with contributions from the employee and some matching contributions from gov't. The rules, expectations, and functions are like those of a 401. TSP has been in gov't since I started in gov't in 1992. Not in most states & not in all fed programs. The TSP is still, I believe a till death monthly expense, picked up but the tax payer. A 401k runs out at some point. Not the same at all. Look at ANY city, county or state that is underwater right now. It's almost all defined benefit package costs.
You can NOT expect to put in 6-8% of your pay for 25yrs & then get paid 50-90% for another 25yrs, the math never adds up. Most govt employees are lied to buy their union reps in thinking they pay for their retirement. News flash, I put in the same 7% into ss & I get back $1600-$2000/m a far cry from the $5k-$8K/M many govt employees are pulling down. Talk about not paying your fair share.

The old Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) is long gone and not offered any longer - but grandfathered for those who were under it before FERS. The new system is FERS - Federal Employee Retirement System and in that system the Fed employee's retirement consists of a small FERS annuity, social security, and TSP. (CSRS employees don't pay into SS and cannot collect it unless from the quarters from another job. The CSRS employee also has a different TSP structure from FERS.)


I am on crappy Medicare - like ALL FERS retirees. However, I also elected to keep my Blue Cross plan from gov't - for which I pay about 1/2 the premiums in retirement. I am also a disabled veteran and use VA for healthcare. You may say that I have triple-redundant healthcare. All I know is... I never pay anything for healthcare beyond my Blue Cross partial premium and 8 bucks for 90 day scrips fom VA.


Governments on all levels have a responsibility to govern its people. Something, someone, has to make this thing tick. If gov't employees don't do it, gov't hires private sector contractors to do it for them. In the end, it's the same mess as the private guys are contractually overseen by the gov't guys. Ya still need money to make this thing work. How wisely those monies may be spent is yet another topic for discussion. Sure but w/o the govt benefits packages & higher costs. I can pay a govt worker $25/hr & benefits to fill a pothole or higher a local contractor to do it for 1/2 & get it done faster. This actually works in every sector. The govt can not, by it's own red tape, do ANYTHING better than the private sector but spend money.

BTW, I was furloughed (under Clinton) over Christmas for 3 weeks in 1995-96, didn't expect to get paid, but was happy to have the time off - even w/o pay. When they called us back, the gov't ended up paying us for those 3 weeks off anyway. Not everyone was laid off then, but I was NON-essential. (That would be all of gov't in your way of thinking Fred.) Since a very large majority of non-essential support people were laid off, the remaining essential people couldn't do much anyway.

You are no doubt talking about the Air Traffic Controllers with Reagan. Now, this time around the ATCs are getting laid off like the rest of the non-essentials. Political ploy, not out of necessity. The budget is more this year than last year & no layoffs. Instead of layoffs, just cut their fat paychecks by 10%-20%. Most of us in the private sector took at least that over the last 5yrs & no COLA or other such non merit pay increases. You get brought back off furlough & paid, that is a vacation. I get layed off, I don't get paid.

ETA: I could wallpaper a fair-sized wall with the atta-girls I got over my years in gov't - and I also received a few cash bonuses during my tenure.
Sardg you may well be the 10% of the govt employees that actually do/did their job, good for you. I worked in the system long enough to see how unmotivated govt employees are at all levels. Just pay a modicum of attention today & you see constant incompetence & mediocrity & all on the tax payers dime, most w/o serious oversight & all at a cost we can no longer afford.
Gone are the days of a govt job being a medium pay, high benefit, can't be fired to a over payed, under worked group of mostly parasites waiting to get their retirement check. Yeah, harsh but it's time reality sets in. Much of the so called govt doesn't need anyone to run anything or 1/4 of the existing staff if they were properly motivated, like being able to be fired for incompetence instead of just moved to another dept. The system is a huge anchor on any country, just look at most every country in Europe. The only reason we have not defaulted is the govt printing $85B a month. Ignoring this is part of the problem.
This discussion right here is the problem. It's coming down to the haves & have nots. The govt employees at ALL levels are now the haves. Govts at ALL levels asking the tax payer to pony up more & more to feed the obese, lazy slob that ALL govts have become. At some point it will come to a head. Without a strong private sector, there is no govt sector, wanted or needed. Yeah this is a broad brush but ignoring that there is a problem isn't going to make it go away.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:13   #18
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In TSP the agency and employee contributions stop with retirement and the retiree earns interest on his or her investment at that time. Earnings can be controlled by where (what fund) the employee/retiree chooses to invest. At 70, the retiree MUST begin drawing money from TSP and several withdrawel plans are available.

BTW, I now own a Woman Owned SDVOSB (Service Disabled Veteran Owned Small Business) and we ae govt contractors.

The OP removed his post. Oh well, this thread was lost to something else anyway. Major hijack.
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Old 04-26-2013, 13:31   #19
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In TSP the agency and employee contributions stop with retirement and the retiree earns interest on his or her investment at that time. Earnings can be controlled by where (what fund) the employee/retiree chooses to invest. At 70, the retiree MUST begin drawing money from TSP and several withdrawel plans are available.

BTW, I now own a Woman Owned SDVOSB (Service Disabled Veteran Owned Small Business) and we ae govt contractors.

The OP removed his post. Oh well, this thread was lost to something else anyway. Major hijack.
If this is true for ALL Federal employees, why are so many retiring with huge life long pensions? Is every Federal agency under TSP or just select few? I'll do some research, but I know for a fact that state & local govt pensions are guaranteed & paid until the person dies. You can NOT earn enough interest to pay the monthly benefit, impossible. The math never adds up. That is the lie told by the union reps, "you are paying your own way". Ridiculous. If your benefit is 50% of your salary, small by todays payouts, then your 6-7% per month + compounded interest is consumed in about 6yrs of retirement. It is why govts around the world are going broke. The defined benefit & gold watch are dead because many live well beyond the 5-6yrs after retirement that was the model for defined retirement plans. SS is in the crapper for the same reason. It was never designed to pay one for 20yrs after they stop paying the monthly.
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Old 04-26-2013, 14:25   #20
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Ok did some research TSP is NOT anything like a 401K. It is a guaranteed annuity plan. Under the plan you never run out of money, shortfalls are made up by the tax payer, like most any other govt pension system. There is also a COLA adjustment, again, nothing like a 401K.
So just to bring you up to speed, nothing like a 401K which once you leave the employer, there is no further obligation & if you run out of money, if your interest does not keep you going, there is no guarantee. So again TSP is a defined retirement package that, along with poor $$ management @ EVERY level of govt, is ruining the country. When Obama is gone, we will have a $20T debt. Govt employees are part of this problem. Until they all stand up & condemn the spending, it will remain a big part of the problem. I understand why you & others are offended but it is what it is & none of the retired or soon to retire govt workers are going to standup & say it's wrong.
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"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".

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