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Old 04-27-2013, 16:21   #1
SBray
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45 ACP Target Bullet Assistance

Folks,

I found these 45 ACP bullets that have been hiding in my garage since a friend gave them to me several years ago. I have never loaded this type of bullet and was hoping for some advise about proper depth when attempting to get the correct OAL. Do I use a regular round shaped seating die?

Thanks,

Steve
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Old 04-27-2013, 16:52   #2
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SBray,

If you are going to shoot these out of a Glock... I would reconsider. This type of bullet does not feed up the ramp of your Glock barrel.

I reloaded some 185g and regardless of the charge weight or OAL, almost every round jammed in my G21. Others have expressed the same results.

In some other brand/style of pistol or a revolver these bullets might be fine, but I can not speak to that.

In you are reloading for a Glock, save yourself some time and trouble and trade these for either FMJ RN, HP or lead bullets of the same style.

Good luck and be safe out there
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Old 04-27-2013, 18:06   #3
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Since I shoot the S&S Casting 200 gr LSWC in my Gen 3 G21SF, I would load those in a hearbeat.

http://shop.snscasting.com/45-ACP-20...-45-200SWC.htm

I don't know the dimensions of that bullet but I would try for an OAL of 1.250" and I would expect about 0.030" of the driving band to be exposed beyond the casemouth.

My reloads functioned perfectly in my G21SF using the factory barrel. I decided to change to a KKM barrel due to the "no lead in Glock barrels" debate but it certainly wasn't necessary. I had no evidence of lead fouling.

I have no idea whether those bullets would feed in a G30 or G36 (I have read that they won't) but I would certainly give them a try in a G21.

Back to that bit about reading that SWC won't work in a G30 or G36: I read a lot of stuff on the Internet. I believe almost none of it. Until I try it myself, it's just urban legend.

Load a few, see if they work. If not, figure out why not.

Richard
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Old 04-27-2013, 18:09   #4
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Back to your real question: I would try the flat seating stem, the one with the cylindrical depression. See how the bullet nose fits into the cavity. The round stem wouldn't be appropriate but it might work anyway. If you have the Dillon die with the totally flat seating stem, I don't think that one will help align the bullet.

Richard
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Old 04-27-2013, 18:45   #5
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I have been using these in my G21 without a hiccup! Just sayin'
(Same bullet you have)

Last edited by phonejack; 09-26-2013 at 04:09..
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Old 04-27-2013, 19:09   #6
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http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...ight=185g+jswc
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Old 04-27-2013, 19:20   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentguy View Post
But that discussion is about the 185 gr JSWC and these are 200 gr.

I have some 185 gr JSWC and they are a lot shorter than the 200 gr LSWC and, I suspect, the 200 gr JSWC.

I'm not saying that they will, or won't, work. I am saying that until I tried them myself, I certainly wouldn't get rid of them in a market where there are no alternatives.

It's worth loading a magazine full just to check. In California, that ain't very many!

EDIT: Speaking of which, if they become surplus to requirements, I'm interested... I KNOW I can make them work in a 1911 or Sig P220.

Richard
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Old 04-27-2013, 20:04   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
Back to your real question: I would try the flat seating stem, the one with the cylindrical depression. See how the bullet nose fits into the cavity. The round stem wouldn't be appropriate but it might work anyway. If you have the Dillon die with the totally flat seating stem, I don't think that one will help align the bullet.

Richard
Thanks Richard,

I will try the flat Dillon seating stem after the round side. I will only load 5 of each.

Steve
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Old 04-27-2013, 20:07   #9
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I expected the rounds to look like the ones phonjack displayed.

"I don't know the dimensions of that bullet but I would try for an OAL of 1.250" and I would expect about 0.030" of the driving band to be exposed beyond the casemouth." Richard

I will look for those dimensions Richard.

Thanks folks,

Steve
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Old 04-27-2013, 22:10   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBray View Post
I expected the rounds to look like the ones phonjack displayed.

"I don't know the dimensions of that bullet but I would try for an OAL of 1.250" and I would expect about 0.030" of the driving band to be exposed beyond the casemouth." Richard

I will look for those dimensions Richard.

Thanks folks,

Steve
I haven't spent enough time looking at the Glock slide. On the underside, at the bottom edge of the breech, there is a flat bar-shaped portion running for and aft with a ski ramp shape at the breech face. This part holds the top round in the magazine below the bottom of the breech and, it seems to me, prevents the extracting case from impacting the top round in the magazine. As the slide moves fully to the rear, the top round moves up and this bar gets behind the base and pushes the round up into the chamber.

The ski-ramp portion at the end of this bar piece guarantees that the round in the magazine is held below the level of the extracting case. You can demonstrate this by disassembling the gun, putting a round in the chamber and sliding the case up the breech face until it is now fully in battery. Slowly push the barrel down to unlock it and stop at the point where the barrel just unlocks. At this point, the round should still be farther up the breech face than the level at the end of the ski ramp (barely).

So, the trick would seem to be to make sure the case stays attached to the extractor. From what I have read about Glock FTF and FTE problems, higher slide velocity is a help.

If I wanted to study this further, I would remove the striker (paranoia) and slowly hand cycle some loads. I would want to see how far down the barrel moves when it is cammed by the locking block. Does it drop the extracting case lower than the ski ramp? Does this change with different barrels?

Of the two dimensions, I would look for the portion of the driving band exposed and worry less about OAL. The photos of loaded rounds earlier in the thread concern me a bit. The round on the right doesn't seem to have ANY driving band exposed. The round on the left seems ok. Of course, it could all be a photo issue. And, of course, there is the bit about them working fine...

It could be that the nose of the JSWC is a little shorter than that on a LSWC so the OAL could vary even though the same amount of driving band was exposed. I would actually think that the round would be a little longer because lead is more dense than copper.

Just stuff to think about. My guess: It'll all work out fine.

Richard
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:32   #11
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That's a Hornady Combat Target bullet. Hornady #7 lists an OAL of 1.245. I would start there and check like this.

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Old 04-28-2013, 08:40   #12
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I agree with all the headspace photos but straightwall cartridges headspace on the casemouth, not the bullet. There are only two ways the headspace can be wrong and the bullet itself isn't one of them. Unless the OAL is very wrong - see below.

First, the chamber can be cut too short or too long and second, the brass is too short or too long. These are dimensions that are easily measured.

But we're talking .45 ACP. The brass doesn't stretch and it certainly doesn't shrink. If it fit once, it will fit forever. Nevertheless, check a few from time to time with a casegauge. Or measure the length with calipers. Just for a check...

The bullet, as seated, shouldn't impact the rifling. Drop some in the chamber and spin them around. They shouldn't drag. I find that some lead bullets do drag just a bit right at the casemouth but it hasn't been a problem. With the jacketed bullets currently being discussed, I wouldn't expect any dragging whatsoever. Drop the round in the chamber ("kerplunk"), rotate it and see that it drops free. I have used a Sharpie to color the case, casemouth and bullet to be certain that only the casemouth is rubbing.

The bullet diameter at the casemouth is 0.451" and the chamber just forward of the seating ridge (start of the leade) is 0.452". Plenty of clearance. It's still worth trying the "kerplunk" test descibed above.

There's a certain amount of fiddling around with the first few rounds loaded.

Richard
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:58   #13
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steve4102,

Thanks for the photo and information from Hornady Manual! I will work with the information you and others have provided.

Steve
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