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Old 02-03-2013, 13:19   #41
Jerry
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Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
I have serious doub s about who's side you are on in this.

Remember "assault" is a verb not a noun. It is not in our best interest to define an act and link in to a particular set of characteristics of the tools. BESIDES all of that, any firearm can b used to "assault" someone and despite what get headlines, the characteristics you have singled out are resent in very few of the firearms used in crime as a whole in this Country so it isn't even logical to pursue that course, and the weapons would still be deadly without the lugs.

AND ON TOP OF THAT we are not going to throw anymore "types" of guns under the bus to appease those who have never stopped in their attempts to ban all guns.

AS IF THAT Weren't enough, take a look at the Second Amendment, does it say a "Well regulated deer camp being necessary.."? No it doesn't, it says "Militia" In case you don't know that is a MILITARY based term. The very guns the Founders were protecting WERE military useful weapons. To throw more of them under the bus I to undermine the intention of the Second Amendment and thereby someday it can be called "Void" because of the very lack of "military useful" weapons to raise a militia

Keep the bright ideas to yourself
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Old 02-03-2013, 22:23   #42
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You miss my point entirely here.
First, I am suggesting that I am all for RKBA and 2A. What I threw out was for general discussion and NOT suggestions. I personally believe that the second amendment is an absolute; there should be very few restrictions (like whackos and felons perhaps). I want to hear more of what folks have to say.

I am not suggesting that we throw more guns under the bus.... what I am throwing out for discussion is that perhaps we need to do a better job of educating the public including the politicians.

Bad stuff is coming our way. An open dialogue without folks that have their knickers in a twist would be of some benefit for us less educated folk.

Your comments are not appreciated. They are ignorant and abrasive.
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Old 02-03-2013, 22:43   #43
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Originally Posted by Torontogunguy View Post
You miss my point entirely here.
First, I am suggesting that I am all for RKBA and 2A. What I threw out was for general discussion and NOT suggestions. I personally believe that the second amendment is an absolute; there should be very few restrictions (like whackos and felons perhaps). I want to hear more of what folks have to say.

I am not suggesting that we throw more guns under the bus.... what I am throwing out for discussion is that perhaps we need to do a better job of educating the public including the politicians.

Bad stuff is coming our way. An open dialogue without folks that have their knickers in a twist would be of some benefit for us less educated folk.

Your comments are not appreciated. They are ignorant and abrasive.

No, your point was poorly presented and poorly made.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:07   #44
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YOUR points are well taken. But are we not preaching to the choir.... to the converted?

What I am suggesting, amongst other things, is that the public is essentially totally ignorant of the empirical data. Every time I hear the phrase "assault weapon" I cringe and my hair stands on end and we are letting folks like Feinstein, et. al., get away with this instead of hauling them onto the carpet.

Make no mistake, regardless of what we believe, restrictions are coming our way. I really cannot see anything but. Obama merely needs to stack one additional vote on SCOTUS and we are pooched.

I know what you are saying and I know what we believe is the RKBA and 2A. I am suggesting that, in order to keep what we have, we may have to give a bit. A thought for discussion. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but I'd rather see some small sacrifice in order to keep my AR's, etc.

Heck, in NY state, which I must pass through every time I travel back and forth, I can no longer even transport a ten round magazine, let alone 30. I am hoping that the NRA and NYS gun owners have some success in the courts but I really doubt it is going to happen. So I am stocked up with Glock 36's and 7 round magazines galore. I have not read the full text of the new legislation but wonder what NY'ers are going to be doing with their 30 rounders in future. And their AR's. For me, it becomes an 5 hour drive to cross into Michigan instead of NYS in order to have a 10 round magazine in my safes in the back of my SUV's.

Make no mistake about one thing, like it or otherwise, change is acomin' and we are not going to like what we are seeing. We are going to have to roll up our sleeves for a fight I am afraid.

What exactly is it that you are suggesting that we do? Sit and wait for the tsunami to hit or take some affirmative action that is meaningful to the general public and government? I'd like to hear your input.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:42   #45
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So, lots of great discussion, how do we turn these thoughts into action?
Since I think we mostly agree that this will be won or lost in the media, how about we post here whenever we see something inaccurate in the media and we all write to the publisher/author politely correcting the erroneous info? How about we start writing letters to the editor and opinion pieces re-emphasising the facts? Most probably won't be published be the leftist media, but some might.

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Old 02-04-2013, 07:02   #46
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Why should we allow a pistol grip to be considered a military feature?

Give up your positions and put your weapons down, or we will put pistol grips on our rifles!

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Old 02-04-2013, 09:13   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer View Post
Why should we allow a pistol grip to be considered a military feature?

Give up your positions and put your weapons down, or we will put pistol grips on our rifles!

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I joined the NRA, have you yet?
Aha!!!
That IS my point. Discussion and action! I have been insulted and told to keep my opinions and suggestions to myself. These are exactly the types of attitude that will put our gun rights in their grave unless we are willing to endure civil war.

I have done exactly that and it is tough. The media don't want to hear about it but in force of numbers perhaps they will sit up and take notice!

I have even written to the President. The response? "Thank you for writing. The campaign is now closed." That's ALL.

All good men need do to permit tyranny and loss of their rights is to do NOTHING. With all due respect to those that would insult me for suggesting an open dialogue instead of whining.... you get what you deserve despite what you wish for. And you WILL lose your gun rights. Make no mistake about that.

I have said it before and I will say it again, the President will have an opportunity very shortly to stack SCOTUS with one more of his puppets and it is SCOTUS that will ultimately be the downfall of our RKBA and 2A.

If we do nothing I predict:
1. Total ban on any firearm that looks scarey, select fire or not.
2. Gun registration for every gun in the nation.
3. Universal background checks (maybe not such a bad idea if held in conjunction with improved mental health care and vetting and enforcement of existing laws on who may and who may not bear arms).
4. 7 round magazines for EVERYTHING; perhaps 2 or 3 round magazines for high powered rifles and shotguns.
And you need only use your imagination to figure out the rest.

PLEEEEEEZE! Dialogue and action. Never mind this BS "From my cold dead hands". Educate the legislators AND the media. Do they know that half of what Feinstein says is pure fiction and lies? Do they realize that the empirical data is at their fingertips as opposed to taking words from the mouths of politicians with their own agendas? For instance, that the murder rate has been cut in half since 1994 according to the FBI numbers (with the shall carry states carrying the best numbers?).

We need empirical data references posted; erroneous bylines posted; etc. And above all, we need action. A radio station receiving a thousand letters, faxes and emails about their errors bears attention and perhaps even correction.

Insults hurled at those of us that have been on here for some years quietly and are ripe for action serves no purpose except to make us go away. Those that hurl these insults are very tiny people with very tiny minds unfortunately, else they would see what they have in the palm of their hands and offer guidance instead of insults.

Let's get to work.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:22   #48
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Oh, and one other thing. MY POINT EXACTLY is that pistol grips, bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, DO NOT MAKE AN ASSAULT RIFLE. There is really no such thing as an assault rifle. It is a media phrase, produced by media and politicians to make anything that looks scarey sound scarey. THERE ARE fully automatic, select fire rifles out there and they are ALREADY dealt with by Federal law. All that needs to be done is to enforce the laws on the books. Like LaPierre says.... "we don't need more laws and restrictions, they will do nothing. What we need is enforcement of the existing laws".
And "it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun". I don't think anyone would disagree with this? In the senate hearings this past week it was stated that less than a quarter of those that break Federal laws are ever charged and less than 4% are ever brought to trial. We have a law that lays a 5 year penalty on top of any person committing an offense using a firearm. No parole. When was the last time you heard of ANYONE being hit with this? Might set gang violence back some in the process too, no? Let's talk instead of insulting one another.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:34   #49
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If you truly want to challenge the media in regards to misinformation, the best thing you can do is properly introduce a person who is not a gun owner to the sport of shooting. Whether it's thru hunting, or target shooting, whatever it may be, take someone shooting. Help spread the "disease".
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:49   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Wagon View Post
If you truly want to challenge the media in regards to misinformation, the best thing you can do is properly introduce a person who is not a gun owner to the sport of shooting. Whether it's thru hunting, or target shooting, whatever it may be, take someone shooting. Help spread the "disease".
I agree that is a great grass roots action. I am actually doing that with a couple of liberal friends who actually want to be better educated.

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Old 02-04-2013, 12:07   #51
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How Bad Do I really Want This.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Wagon View Post
If you truly want to challenge the media in regards to misinformation, the best thing you can do is properly introduce a person who is not a gun owner to the sport of shooting. Whether it's thru hunting, or target shooting, whatever it may be, take someone shooting. Help spread the "disease".
There we go! A great suggestion that should be added to a stickey list.

I take friends and relatives out to the range a couple of times and when they ask "when can we go to the range" I take them and put an application form in their hands. I also try to spend one weekend every year introducing Scouts to shooting sports and to that end I purchased five Ruger Mk III's and a few .22 rifles (two of olympic quality 25 years ago). Our club gets a load of members out so that every Scout has a mentor at arm's length. No distractions. They have a ball and in the 15 years that I have been doing it I have seen loads of Scouts and Air Cadets join up. I likewise take friends and family... and if every one of us brought in one single new shooter each YEAR who loved the sport and understood self defense as we do, our problems might better be handled.

I make it my business to try and contact politicians, media and, generally, folks that are fed BS and set the record straight. That's just my part, but imagine if we ALL did the same? Somewhere on here I have a pamphlet of statistics from credible sources like the FBI that I use. If I find it I am going to try and post it or at least a link to it as it is online as well.

GREAT idea. Print out the PDF attachment at the very top of this post and stick it on your fridge and gunsafe if you have one.
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Old 02-05-2013, 20:23   #52
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I don't think the news will ever change and sadly there are too many sheep just believing every lie they are told. It's a bunch of crap but, I don't think it will ever change.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:11   #53
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Quote:
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I don't think the news will ever change and sadly there are too many sheep just believing every lie they are told. It's a bunch of crap but, I don't think it will ever change.
Laslo: Unfortunately, you are probably right, FOR NOW. It is only the bad news that the news media wants to hype these days. I love Nancy Grace. Every time I am playing channel hop on the remote for the TV (We have hundreds of channels) and I come across Nancy Grace, my stomache literally turns. She takes the most heinous events and harps on them for hours and for days and for weeks.... I just, frankly, find her disgusting and obnoxious. But she gets listened to!

The only way we are going to change the media is if we let them know that there are thousands of us out here that find their style of reporting and their lies and deceit sickening. And the only way we are going to do that is by letting them know by fax, mail, email, etc. Pummel them with the truth!

Taking a friend or relative out to the range will bolster our numbers and make folks less paranoid about firearms as well. I posted "An Opinion on Gun Control" that I found on Facebook a couple of days ago. It is well worth printing and handing out or mailing to news reporters along with the empirical data that shows the truth.

La Pierre may have sounded like a quack when speaking on television just after Sandy Hook, but he was hitting the nail right on the head. The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun from committing an atrocity is a GOOD GUY with a gun.

I have known this for a short while. My Dad opened up recently and started talking about WWII. He spent four years living in the forest in holes in the ground with women and children; entire families. He created big problems for the Nazis and discovered very quickly that it took an armed partisan to rid the world of a whacko Nazi bent on murder, rape and atrocities. They would kill Nazis in their sleep and steal their guns and ammo. Many of my fathers friends died in doing so, but once armed, it was much easier to stop THE BAD GUYS. Rocks and sticks simply did not work very well.
THAT is what La Pierre was talking about and the nation laughed at him. Yet subsequently we find out that many of our schools are, in fact, 'protected' by armed guards.... NOW!

What if EVERY school was no longer a 'gun-free' zone and several teachers and other staff were armed? I would suggest that a Sandy Hook would never happen again. Ever.

Now, the trick is to get the mass media to buy in by providing them with empirical data and rational opinion like posted elsewhere on this forum. Maybe, just maybe, we can begin to convert the press to seeing the correct picture. And this Piers Morgan guy is THE HEIGHT of obnoxious. He does not report the news. He is a one man crusade on behalf of the Brady crew.

Sit back and do nothing and we will lose our liberties.
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