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Old 02-01-2013, 15:26   #26
countrygun
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Originally Posted by Beware Owner View Post
Used in Sandy Hook to me means that he had them, not that he actually fired it.
I went on a date once with a girl and didn't get her in the sack, can I claim I used my Johnson, even if I never took it out, just because I had it with me?

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Old 02-01-2013, 15:28   #27
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Did any witness say they heard gunshots?
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Old 02-01-2013, 15:58   #28
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Did any witness say they heard gunshots?
Some of the children interviewed as they were leaving the school said they did.
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Old 02-01-2013, 16:17   #29
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Did any witness say they heard gunshots?
Seriously?
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Old 02-01-2013, 17:30   #30
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Originally Posted by Beware Owner View Post
Did any witness say they heard gunshots?
Then there were the arriving police officers.
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Reliving Horror and Faint Hope at Massacre Site

“I got out of the car and grabbed my rifle and it stopped for second,” Officer Chapman said. “But then we heard more popping. You could tell it was rifle fire. And it was up so close, it sounded like it was coming from outside. So we were all looking around for someone to shoot back at.”

As the officers converged on the building, the gunfire stopped again.
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Old 02-01-2013, 20:07   #31
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I'll tell you what is very strange about that. I saw with my very own eyes, and I'll bet money no one can find it anywhere now, on a local news broadcaster, video of someone taking an AR out of "A CAR TRUNK". That was one of the things mentions on the radio conspiracy theory broadcast that I listened to the other night. Now you see it, now you don't. Very strange how things get "rearranged" to fit the gun-banners agenda isn't it? But then I'm probably just and I didn't really see what I thought I saw.
If you actually saw the video you'd have seen when they cleared the weapon it could not have been an AR. The charging handle was on the side, not on the top.
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Old 02-01-2013, 21:09   #32
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If you actually saw the video you'd have seen when they cleared the weapon it could not have been an AR. The charging handle was on the side, not on the top.
So you are going to tell me what I did and didn't see. I know very well what an AR looks like. It WAS an AR. They did not show it being cleared. The cop took it out of a trunk, turned it ejection port down then they went back to the in-studio reporter who reported, "An assault weapoc and a shotgun were recovered from the shooters vehicle." I changed the channel.
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Old 02-01-2013, 21:21   #33
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If you actually saw the video you'd have seen when they cleared the weapon it could not have been an AR. The charging handle was on the side, not on the top.
Not top, back.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:40   #34
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So you are going to tell me what I did and didn't see. I know very well what an AR looks like. It WAS an AR. They did not show it being cleared. The cop took it out of a trunk, turned it ejection port down then they went back to the in-studio reporter who reported, "An assault weapoc and a shotgun were recovered from the shooters vehicle." I changed the channel.
So you went from the SciFi channel to the Believe it or Not channel??!!

I AM SO SORRY, Jerry...

BUT, I had too. The door was just TOOOOOO big!

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Old 02-02-2013, 16:01   #35
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So you went from the SciFi channel to the Believe it or Not channel??!!

I AM SO SORRY, Jerry...

BUT, I had too. The door was just TOOOOOO big!

The SciFi chanel... would that be ABC, NBC, CNBC or MSNBC? It's all so confuesing.
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Old 02-02-2013, 17:42   #36
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So on fox news today, they have a story about Obama skeet sooting with a "rifle". Ole Barack must be badass if he can skeet shoot with a rifle...

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Old 02-02-2013, 20:27   #37
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The SciFi chanel... would that be ABC, NBC, CNBC or MSNBC?
Yes.
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It's all so confuesing.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:37   #38
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Not top, back.
To be precise, the back of the top. Not the side, either way.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:07   #39
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Well done. BUT, assault weapons, in my humble opinion, have nothing to do with looks. It is simple enough. If it has the ability to hang a bayonet or grenade launcher on it, or if it, MORE SUCCINCTLY AND TO THE POINT, has select fire (full automatic fire), it can be classed as an assault weapon. So too is any firearm that has been converted to select fire or has had a slide-stock or bump-fire stock installed. Feinstein, in 1994, helped choose 'assault weapons' for the list by looking at photographs it seems. Scarey=Assault Weapon. A grip or foregrip does not an assault weapon make. What we need to do is print up some posters that specify what an assault weapon is and we need to post them all over the internet and to every major news outlet in the land. Let's educate them! How about.... the murder rate in the USA before, during and after the assault weapon ban? THAT would be an eyeopener.




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I just sent the following to fox news.com after reading their headline story this morning. I strongly encourage you all to do likewise when the media spews inaccuracies that hurt informed discussion. If more people understood that the antis, with the willing or ignorant support of the media, are being sneaky here by calling semi auto rifles "assault weapons" and that what they really mean by "assault weapon" is "all firearms", maybe the antis could get shut down faster.

To: foxnewstips@foxnews.com

Subject: Error in today's foxnews.com headline story

Good morning, there is a significant error in your online headline story this morning entitled “NRA's LaPierre to tell Congress more gun laws 'not a serious solution'.

The seventh paragraph states “a lone gunman with psychological problems used an assault weapon...”

Assault Weapons are already banned in Connecticut and the firearm used by Adam Lanza was NOT AN ASSAULT WEAPON.* It was a semi-automatic rifle that was legal under both CT’s current assault weapon ban and the expired federal assault weapon ban.* In fact, the only “military features” it possessed were a pistol grip and a detachable magazine

Continuing to misidentify these firearms in stories misleads the public and is poor reporting.* People need to understand that if they want to ban weapons like the one used in the Sandy Hook killing, what they are really talking about is banning ALL semiautomatic rifles, because the one used at Sandy Hook was functionally no different from any other medium caliber semiautomatic rifle.*
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:58   #40
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Well done. BUT, assault weapons, in my humble opinion, have nothing to do with looks. It is simple enough. If it has the ability to hang a bayonet or grenade launcher on it, or if it, MORE SUCCINCTLY AND TO THE POINT, has select fire (full automatic fire), it can be classed as an assault weapon.

Bullshirts. I have a Springfield '03 I can hang a bayonet on, is it an "assault rifle"? BY THE WAY on your "Full Auto" portion do you really think An M-2 .50 is an assault weapon you could carry into a mall and open fire with?



So too is any firearm that has been converted to select fire or has had a slide-stock or bump-fire stock installed. Feinstein, in 1994, helped choose 'assault weapons' for the list by looking at photographs it seems. Scarey=Assault Weapon. A grip or foregrip does not an assault weapon make. What we need to do is print up some posters that specify what an assault weapon is and we need to post them all over the internet and to every major news outlet in the land. Let's educate them! How about.... the murder rate in the USA before, during and after the assault weapon ban? THAT would be an eyeopener.

I have serious doubts about who's side you are on in this.

Remember "assault" is a verb not a noun. It is not in our best interest to define an act and link in to a particular set of characteristics of the tools. BESIDES all of that, any firearm can be used to "assault" someone and despite what you see in the headlines, the characteristics you have singled out are present in very few of the firearms used in crime as a whole in this Country so it isn't even logical to pursue that course, and the weapons would still be deadly without the lugs.

AND ON TOP OF THAT we are not going to throw anymore "types" of guns under the bus to appease those who have never stopped in their attempts to ban all guns.

AS IF THAT Weren't enough, take a look at the Second Amendment, does it say a "Well regulated deer camp being necessary.."? No it doesn't, it says "Militia" In case you don't know that is a MILITARY based term. The very guns the Founders were protecting WERE military useful weapons. To throw more of them under the bus is to undermine the intention of the Second Amendment and thereby someday it can be called "Void" because of the very lack of "military useful" weapons to raise a militia

Keep the bright ideas to yourself

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Old 02-03-2013, 12:19   #41
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I have serious doub s about who's side you are on in this.

Remember "assault" is a verb not a noun. It is not in our best interest to define an act and link in to a particular set of characteristics of the tools. BESIDES all of that, any firearm can b used to "assault" someone and despite what get headlines, the characteristics you have singled out are resent in very few of the firearms used in crime as a whole in this Country so it isn't even logical to pursue that course, and the weapons would still be deadly without the lugs.

AND ON TOP OF THAT we are not going to throw anymore "types" of guns under the bus to appease those who have never stopped in their attempts to ban all guns.

AS IF THAT Weren't enough, take a look at the Second Amendment, does it say a "Well regulated deer camp being necessary.."? No it doesn't, it says "Militia" In case you don't know that is a MILITARY based term. The very guns the Founders were protecting WERE military useful weapons. To throw more of them under the bus I to undermine the intention of the Second Amendment and thereby someday it can be called "Void" because of the very lack of "military useful" weapons to raise a militia

Keep the bright ideas to yourself
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Old 02-03-2013, 21:23   #42
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You miss my point entirely here.
First, I am suggesting that I am all for RKBA and 2A. What I threw out was for general discussion and NOT suggestions. I personally believe that the second amendment is an absolute; there should be very few restrictions (like whackos and felons perhaps). I want to hear more of what folks have to say.

I am not suggesting that we throw more guns under the bus.... what I am throwing out for discussion is that perhaps we need to do a better job of educating the public including the politicians.

Bad stuff is coming our way. An open dialogue without folks that have their knickers in a twist would be of some benefit for us less educated folk.

Your comments are not appreciated. They are ignorant and abrasive.
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Old 02-03-2013, 21:43   #43
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You miss my point entirely here.
First, I am suggesting that I am all for RKBA and 2A. What I threw out was for general discussion and NOT suggestions. I personally believe that the second amendment is an absolute; there should be very few restrictions (like whackos and felons perhaps). I want to hear more of what folks have to say.

I am not suggesting that we throw more guns under the bus.... what I am throwing out for discussion is that perhaps we need to do a better job of educating the public including the politicians.

Bad stuff is coming our way. An open dialogue without folks that have their knickers in a twist would be of some benefit for us less educated folk.

Your comments are not appreciated. They are ignorant and abrasive.

No, your point was poorly presented and poorly made.
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Old 02-04-2013, 00:07   #44
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YOUR points are well taken. But are we not preaching to the choir.... to the converted?

What I am suggesting, amongst other things, is that the public is essentially totally ignorant of the empirical data. Every time I hear the phrase "assault weapon" I cringe and my hair stands on end and we are letting folks like Feinstein, et. al., get away with this instead of hauling them onto the carpet.

Make no mistake, regardless of what we believe, restrictions are coming our way. I really cannot see anything but. Obama merely needs to stack one additional vote on SCOTUS and we are pooched.

I know what you are saying and I know what we believe is the RKBA and 2A. I am suggesting that, in order to keep what we have, we may have to give a bit. A thought for discussion. I don't like it any more than anyone else, but I'd rather see some small sacrifice in order to keep my AR's, etc.

Heck, in NY state, which I must pass through every time I travel back and forth, I can no longer even transport a ten round magazine, let alone 30. I am hoping that the NRA and NYS gun owners have some success in the courts but I really doubt it is going to happen. So I am stocked up with Glock 36's and 7 round magazines galore. I have not read the full text of the new legislation but wonder what NY'ers are going to be doing with their 30 rounders in future. And their AR's. For me, it becomes an 5 hour drive to cross into Michigan instead of NYS in order to have a 10 round magazine in my safes in the back of my SUV's.

Make no mistake about one thing, like it or otherwise, change is acomin' and we are not going to like what we are seeing. We are going to have to roll up our sleeves for a fight I am afraid.

What exactly is it that you are suggesting that we do? Sit and wait for the tsunami to hit or take some affirmative action that is meaningful to the general public and government? I'd like to hear your input.
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:42   #45
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So, lots of great discussion, how do we turn these thoughts into action?
Since I think we mostly agree that this will be won or lost in the media, how about we post here whenever we see something inaccurate in the media and we all write to the publisher/author politely correcting the erroneous info? How about we start writing letters to the editor and opinion pieces re-emphasising the facts? Most probably won't be published be the leftist media, but some might.

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Old 02-04-2013, 06:02   #46
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Why should we allow a pistol grip to be considered a military feature?

Give up your positions and put your weapons down, or we will put pistol grips on our rifles!

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Old 02-04-2013, 08:13   #47
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Quote:
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Why should we allow a pistol grip to be considered a military feature?

Give up your positions and put your weapons down, or we will put pistol grips on our rifles!

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Aha!!!
That IS my point. Discussion and action! I have been insulted and told to keep my opinions and suggestions to myself. These are exactly the types of attitude that will put our gun rights in their grave unless we are willing to endure civil war.

I have done exactly that and it is tough. The media don't want to hear about it but in force of numbers perhaps they will sit up and take notice!

I have even written to the President. The response? "Thank you for writing. The campaign is now closed." That's ALL.

All good men need do to permit tyranny and loss of their rights is to do NOTHING. With all due respect to those that would insult me for suggesting an open dialogue instead of whining.... you get what you deserve despite what you wish for. And you WILL lose your gun rights. Make no mistake about that.

I have said it before and I will say it again, the President will have an opportunity very shortly to stack SCOTUS with one more of his puppets and it is SCOTUS that will ultimately be the downfall of our RKBA and 2A.

If we do nothing I predict:
1. Total ban on any firearm that looks scarey, select fire or not.
2. Gun registration for every gun in the nation.
3. Universal background checks (maybe not such a bad idea if held in conjunction with improved mental health care and vetting and enforcement of existing laws on who may and who may not bear arms).
4. 7 round magazines for EVERYTHING; perhaps 2 or 3 round magazines for high powered rifles and shotguns.
And you need only use your imagination to figure out the rest.

PLEEEEEEZE! Dialogue and action. Never mind this BS "From my cold dead hands". Educate the legislators AND the media. Do they know that half of what Feinstein says is pure fiction and lies? Do they realize that the empirical data is at their fingertips as opposed to taking words from the mouths of politicians with their own agendas? For instance, that the murder rate has been cut in half since 1994 according to the FBI numbers (with the shall carry states carrying the best numbers?).

We need empirical data references posted; erroneous bylines posted; etc. And above all, we need action. A radio station receiving a thousand letters, faxes and emails about their errors bears attention and perhaps even correction.

Insults hurled at those of us that have been on here for some years quietly and are ripe for action serves no purpose except to make us go away. Those that hurl these insults are very tiny people with very tiny minds unfortunately, else they would see what they have in the palm of their hands and offer guidance instead of insults.

Let's get to work.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:22   #48
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Oh, and one other thing. MY POINT EXACTLY is that pistol grips, bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, DO NOT MAKE AN ASSAULT RIFLE. There is really no such thing as an assault rifle. It is a media phrase, produced by media and politicians to make anything that looks scarey sound scarey. THERE ARE fully automatic, select fire rifles out there and they are ALREADY dealt with by Federal law. All that needs to be done is to enforce the laws on the books. Like LaPierre says.... "we don't need more laws and restrictions, they will do nothing. What we need is enforcement of the existing laws".
And "it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun". I don't think anyone would disagree with this? In the senate hearings this past week it was stated that less than a quarter of those that break Federal laws are ever charged and less than 4% are ever brought to trial. We have a law that lays a 5 year penalty on top of any person committing an offense using a firearm. No parole. When was the last time you heard of ANYONE being hit with this? Might set gang violence back some in the process too, no? Let's talk instead of insulting one another.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:34   #49
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If you truly want to challenge the media in regards to misinformation, the best thing you can do is properly introduce a person who is not a gun owner to the sport of shooting. Whether it's thru hunting, or target shooting, whatever it may be, take someone shooting. Help spread the "disease".
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:49   #50
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If you truly want to challenge the media in regards to misinformation, the best thing you can do is properly introduce a person who is not a gun owner to the sport of shooting. Whether it's thru hunting, or target shooting, whatever it may be, take someone shooting. Help spread the "disease".
I agree that is a great grass roots action. I am actually doing that with a couple of liberal friends who actually want to be better educated.

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