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Old 01-29-2013, 22:01   #26
Kingarthurhk
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Originally Posted by Gallium View Post
Sir, what is the extent of your travels outside of the USA (excluding military service, but you can include it too)?

- G
I have been to the Middle East, and all over Central and South America.
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Old 01-29-2013, 22:04   #27
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Minunum amount of oversea bases, only the bases needed.
No aid to others until we fix our budget.
UN needs to go elsewhere!
Stop illegals, period. They become crimminals as soon as they break the law sneaking into the country.
Use our militery properly and not to help keep others in power.
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Old 01-29-2013, 22:07   #28
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Originally Posted by AsSeenOnTV View Post
I like them all but this one needs some adjusting. Stop all foreign aid, except to mexico. Keep the promise to Mexico and its billions of dollars. Then tell President Calderon that for every illegal we catch here, we will then charge them 10,000 dollars for processing and transporting them back to Mexico.
He will laugh and tell us that is ridiculous.
Then next year as President Calderon is waiting for that big check to arrive and sees the bill for all the illegal immigrants the US has captured, and how now little money is left from our 'Aide package', the very next day he will send the Mexican army to guard the borders and stop illegal immigration into our country from the south.
Actually, if we removed the 11 million illegal aliens from the United States (no they are not all from Mexico), we would have another tremendous savings.

For instance, illegal aliens often work for cash, don't pay taxes, but billions of tax dollars are given to them in tax refunds called "earned income credits" because they have no reportable taxable income.

They further send their children to schools at tax payers expense, as the majority do not pay property tax. They also, beause they get paid in cash, qualify for the school lunch program, also at tax payer's expense.

A good portion of the crime on the Southern Border states are committed by illegal aliens, which costs the tax payers in those states millions of dollars to house them.

Also, because they claim indigent the get free medical care at ER's. That is why you see so many of them there. This drives up the cost of the hospitals, who passes it on to those who have insurance, which makes your deductibles and insurance prices higher.

In a recessed economy, employers are more pleased to pick an illegal alien over a United States Citizen, because they don't have to pay them as much, and they don't have to worry about paying into their social security, because they don't "really exist". This makes it harder for Citizens to find jobs.

So, add all that up and that is easily a couple billion saved by removing them all.
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Old 01-29-2013, 22:10   #29
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Stop illegals, period. They become crimminals as soon as they break the law sneaking into the country.
I become a criminal nearly every day when I drive to work; there's a stretch of Lake Shore Drive where the speed limit is 40. I usually drive a bit over 60 and cops regularly pass me doing 70+, it's 4 lanes wide in each direction and straight as an arrow.

The fact is, while I don't condone it, I understand why someone who is faced with a lifetime of abject poverty combined with the risk of having their sons beheaded and their daughters raped to death by drug gangs might choose to instead come here to live and work even if it makes them a criminal.

And frankly, again--the costs aren't large enough to matter. Yes, taking care of illegals is expensive, but not hundreds of billions of dollars expensive. If every illegal went home tomorrow, it still would't come close to fixing the budget problem.

Social Security and Medicare. Those need to get fixed.
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Old 01-29-2013, 22:13   #30
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
For instance, illegal aliens often work for cash, don't pay taxes, but billions of tax dollars are given to them in tax refunds called "earned income credits" because they have no reportable taxable income.
This is not only false, it demonstrates a basic lack of understanding of how the tax system works.

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They further send their children to schools at tax payers expense, as the majority do not pay property tax.
If they pay rent somewhere, they pay property taxes.


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<snip some more irrelevant points>

So, add all that up and that is easily a couple billion saved by removing them all.
Wow, a couple of billion! That'll fund our Social Security spending for... almost 24 hours!

The reality is that a) it'll be more than a "couple" of billion--maybe as much as 30 or 40 billion, it's hard to say-- and b) it doesn't matter. Saving 40 billion is irrelevant when Social Security costs $700+ billion and the costs are growing every year.

Take your emotions out of it and look at the math. We have to fix Social Security and Medicare. Nothing else matters.
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Old 01-29-2013, 23:00   #31
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We can complain about crack babies, illegals, welfare and foreign aid all we want but the single biggest reason we're in this current mess is old people. Now unless you want to go Logan's Run on them, nothing is going to change. HH
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:15   #32
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
1. Stop all foreign aid period. No one ever sent us any, we sure don't need to be bleeding out huge sums to countries that hate us.

2. Shut down foreign bases and return our troops here, to where they should be, blockading our borders from hostile incursions. We don't need to police the world. The world is not America's responsibility.

3. Maintain enough readiness to reach out and touch places that might want to hurt us. Yes, tactical nukes, and ICBM's.

We don't need a base in another part of the world when we can reach other parts of the world rather rapidly, should they become hostile. Technology has improved dramatically since World War II. Use it.

4. Evict the UN, and tell them to go to their respective countries. Shut down the building and sell it as prime real estate, which it is.

Budget crisis adverted. Thank you.

Hmmm............ I can't find anything there I disagree with. Here I had the impression were were at odds on everything. Maybe not so much.


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But the French were very interested in our success.
Only because were were fighting a common enemy. Britoon and France had a long history of hatred and warfare. By us defeating the Brits and being succesful, it took a lot of the threat of Britoony designs on france away from them.

Britain and France are different countries today with different govts and equally worthless.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:25   #33
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
1. Stop all foreign aid period. No one ever sent us any, we sure don't need to be bleeding out huge sums to countries that hate us.

2. Shut down foreign bases and return our troops here, to where they should be, blockading our borders from hostile incursions. We don't need to police the world. The world is not America's responsibility.

3. Maintain enough readiness to reach out and touch places that might want to hurt us. Yes, tactical nukes, and ICBM's.

We don't need a base in another part of the world when we can reach other parts of the world rather rapidly, should they become hostile. Technology has improved dramatically since World War II. Use it.

4. Evict the UN, and tell them to go to their respective countries. Shut down the building and sell it as prime real estate, which it is.

Budget crisis adverted. Thank you.
Foreign aid is such as small part of our budget and it creates good will. Not to mention it is the Christian thing to do if you go for that sort of thing, but it is the right thing to help those in need. We should cut farm subsidies and decrease the military spending. Also end Medicare and Medicaid as they are just enabling parasites and they are really what is harming the budget.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:30   #34
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I have been saying this for a very long time. I agree with you 100%. This country needs a good dose of Isolationism. Lock it down and take care of our own. Secure the borders. And save tons while doing what is best for "We The People".
When you say secure the borders, do you mean close them? If anything we need more immigration as that is what made this country great. All these new ideas and people helped fuel the innovative spirit that made our nation great. We would be better off making it easier for people to enter the nation and become citizens. Like the Founding Fathers, just swear an Oath and "WHAM-BAM-THANK YOU MA'AM!" You're a US citizen. We don't need much else. Just like the 2nd Amendment, the Founding Fathers got it right and we don't need more government and laws and things of that nature to complicate freedom.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:43   #35
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I say we stop housing all these inmates with life sentences. Reinstate death penelty in all states. Eye for an Eye. This is a start! People need to be held accountable for their actions.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:53   #36
Kingarthurhk
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This is not only false, it demonstrates a basic lack of understanding of how the tax system works.
No, it is true. They file a tax return, and based on the fact that have little to no reportable income they receive a refund called an "earned income credit" that the tax payer pay for. It happens every year.


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If they pay rent somewhere, they pay property taxes.
No, their landlord pays property tax. They do not.

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Wow, a couple of billion! That'll fund our Social Security spending for... almost 24 hours!

The reality is that a) it'll be more than a "couple" of billion--maybe as much as 30 or 40 billion, it's hard to say-- and b) it doesn't matter. Saving 40 billion is irrelevant when Social Security costs $700+ billion and the costs are growing every year.
Yes, and it is full of fraud by citizens and non-citizens alike. The reason it is so expensive, is Congress has been using it as a personal piggy bank for years, and it has been used for a lot of things other than what it was intended for-taking car of the elderly in their old age. But, with the trillions of dollar saved it could be solvent again, as long as it used for its original purpose, and those who befraud it are prosecuted and have assets seized to repay what they have improperly taken.

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Take your emotions out of it and look at the math. We have to fix Social Security and Medicare. Nothing else matters.
I have no emotions whatsoever about this. I am proposing actual cost savings that will make us solvent again. EVERYTHING on my list matters. Yes, we need to fix Social Security, Medicare, and Medicade as they currently eat up 2/3's of the National Budget.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:59   #37
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Originally Posted by ChiTownPicaro View Post
Foreign aid is such as small part of our budget and it creates good will. Not to mention it is the Christian thing to do if you go for that sort of thing, but it is the right thing to help those in need. We should cut farm subsidies and decrease the military spending. Also end Medicare and Medicaid as they are just enabling parasites and they are really what is harming the budget.
Thowing money a people always creates good will. I guess no one wants to create good will with this nation? Oh, well, we need to stop sending bribes overseas of billions upon billions a year at tax payer expeense. They'll just have to get over it.

I fail how it is Christian to give the Muslim Brotherhood 20 F-16's at tax payer expense. I fail to see how it is Christian to have given Egypt alone 1 Billion dollars a year that became the personal income of their dictator.

I fail to see how arming dictators, and sending large sums of money to folks like Saddam Hussein, as we did for a really long time, while he actively tortured and genocided parts of his population is Christian.

I fail to see how it is the Christian thing to do to send millions upon millions of dollars to rebuild Mosques in the Middle East.

If you want to do the Christian thing and cotribute to actual.factual Charities that actually help poor people, I can give you some links if you like.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:04   #38
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When you say secure the borders, do you mean close them? If anything we need more immigration as that is what made this country great. All these new ideas and people helped fuel the innovative spirit that made our nation great. We would be better off making it easier for people to enter the nation and become citizens. Like the Founding Fathers, just swear an Oath and "WHAM-BAM-THANK YOU MA'AM!" You're a US citizen. We don't need much else. Just like the 2nd Amendment, the Founding Fathers got it right and we don't need more government and laws and things of that nature to complicate freedom.
We should definately close our borders and tightly. They are a source huge drug trafficking, and smuggling of people including gang members and terrorists. It is too porus.

I am not against LEGAL immigration. I am very much against ILLEGAL immgiration. Why should we reward line jumpers and let the folks who have been waiting in line and paying fees for doucments to come to the Untied States properly.

Illegal immigration is no different from me breaking into your house, and telling you that you have to care for my every need and desire.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:20   #39
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If parents took care of their kids, and everyone of able mind and body carried their own weight from the time they moved out of their parents' home until they are dead and buried, things would change.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:20   #40
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While it is true that the 53 billion is not huge, stopping all of it, as well as deep Military, Medicaid and S.S. cuts, done temporarily, could at least get us headed in the right direction.

Over-all the size of all Federal agencies and their budgets need to be slashed drastically until we get a balanced budget. Then we can focus on only spending what monies we actually have.

The biggest issue right now, is the average person's view of this country's fiscal future due to our crushing debt. That, plus the rest of the world's view of the same.

Businesses are not comfortable expanding and hiring more employees because they're worried about this house of cards, wondering when it will come crashing down. We'll never get this economy moving forward again until we do something about this crushing debt. And another credit down-grade? Sheeeeeeeeet!

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Old 01-30-2013, 06:20   #41
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To attempt that we'd first have to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil.
Drill/build refineries here, instead of the almost complete hands off restrictions of the liberal greenies.
Short term - yes. Long term we need a substitute for oil. Ethanol might be it but it would need to be refined and made out of something other than foodstock. I still say kudzu is the way to go if it could work.

A former cow-irker once suggested small nuclear power plants for cars. His point is that, since power should not be an issue just make the car like a tank! (This was just us BSing around the breakroom table, not a serious discussion btw).
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:52   #42
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Lets keep borrowing money and giving it away to project force and protect other countries.
Lets keep a military spread all over the globe. Africa, you're up next for a big operation.
Lets fail to fix social programs. I dont have a clue but I bet a few have sound ideas on how to fix it.
Lets stay divided on everything and get nothing accomplished.

Lets stay on the same track and watch the nation implode.


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Old 01-30-2013, 08:16   #43
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There are not enough George Zimmerman's in the world.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:40   #44
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No, it is true. They file a tax return, and based on the fact that have little to no reportable income they receive a refund called an "earned income credit" that the tax payer pay for. It happens every year.
No, it's not "true." Does it happen? I'm sure it does. But illegals don't have SSNs. If they're going to file taxes, they do it fraudulently. To claim the EIC, you also would need false SSNs for dependents.

Most of the ones that work for cash simply don't file at all. Why would they? They don't speak/read English and they're trying to maintain a low profile.

In fact, many more use false SSNs to get jobs in the first place, and payroll taxes are withheld from their paychecks, and they don't file tax returns. The amount of "overpayment" by illegals for Social Security alone is $6-7B annually (and this is money that the federal government actually collects, not an estimate).

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No, their landlord pays property tax. They do not.
The price of property taxes is baked into rent. If you rent a place, you pay property taxes. This is a basic economic principle.

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Yes, and it is full of fraud by citizens and non-citizens alike.
Won't disagree with you there.

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The reason it is so expensive, is Congress has been using it as a personal piggy bank for years, and it has been used for a lot of things other than what it was intended for-taking car of the elderly in their old age.
Nope. The reason it's so expensive is that people live far longer than they used to.

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But, with the trillions of dollar saved it could be solvent again
1) You haven't come anywhere close to "saving" a trillion dollars with your ideas. You understand that a trillion is a thousand billions, right? Your ideas might add up to a few hundred billion at most. Probably not even that.

2) Even if it was "trillions" it wouldn't make SS solvent. The fundamental problem is that it pays more in benefits than it collects in revenues. That's not fixable with a cash infusion.

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I have no emotions whatsoever about this. I am proposing actual cost savings that will make us solvent again.
No, they won't. The cost savings you are proposing simply don't matter in the grand scheme of things. They are too small.

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EVERYTHING on my list matters. Yes, we need to fix Social Security, Medicare, and Medicade as they currently eat up 2/3's of the National Budget.
If you look at someone's budget and they're paying $1000 for rent, $900 for a car payment and $20 for a cable bill... cancelling their cable bill isn't going to fix their financial problems. Yes, technically it's a "savings" but no, it doesn't "matter."

Your ideas about illegals and foreign aid simply do not matter. Forget about foreign aid for the moment. Fix Social Security. If we're ever in a situation where ending foreign aid will materially impact our fiscal situation, I'll be right there with you demanding an end to it. Until then, you're a distraction from the real problem.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:28   #45
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There are not enough George Zimmerman's in the world.
Turd. HH
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:31   #46
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If we ended welfare programs and the min wage there would be no demand for illegal labor
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:33   #47
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I become a criminal nearly every day when I drive to work; there's a stretch of Lake Shore Drive where the speed limit is 40. I usually drive a bit over 60 and cops regularly pass me doing 70+, it's 4 lanes wide in each direction and straight as an arrow.

The fact is, while I don't condone it, I understand why someone who is faced with a lifetime of abject poverty combined with the risk of having their sons beheaded and their daughters raped to death by drug gangs might choose to instead come here to live and work even if it makes them a criminal.

And frankly, again--the costs aren't large enough to matter. Yes, taking care of illegals is expensive, but not hundreds of billions of dollars expensive. If every illegal went home tomorrow, it still would't come close to fixing the budget problem.

Social Security and Medicare. Those need to get fixed.
So giving amnesty to 20 plus million Illegals, and then many of them near the age of retirement, and suddenly overwhelming our already overwhelmed social security program will not be that expensive? They didnt pay into SS program while they worked for cash under the table, but yet they will get to reap the benefits if SS by now being a us citizen?
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:38   #48
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So giving amnesty to 20 plus million Illegals, and then many of them near the age of retirement, and suddenly overwhelming our already overwhelmed social security program will not be that expensive?
Where did I say anything about amnesty?

(Hint: I didn't. You did.)
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:44   #49
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Umm, no. You could completely eliminate foreign aid and cut the defense department by half and we would still be running a deficit.

Nice try though.
You act like our deficit is caused by a single thine. There is not one single thing we can do to eliminate the problem. But a lot of little things add up to big things. Giving money to people who would kill you if they could is just stupid. But what is even worst is we are borrowing money to give to people who want to kill us and having to pay that money back plus compound interest. If this is not the definition of stupid I don't know what is!
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:45   #50
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You act like our deficit is caused by a single thine. There is not one single thing we can do to eliminate the problem. But a lot of little things add up to big things.
That's the point--they don't.

If you add up every single little thing in the budget, they still don't come close to adding up to even ONE of the big things.

Social Security. Medicare. Defense.
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