[MotoGlock]

Originally Posted by M&P Shooter

Already went to crap. The people of this country voted in a Muslim from Kenya to office who done nothing but lie for 4 years and at the end of the 4 years they cheered his name and re elected him, don't get much worst then that

That right there is the cold HARSH truth about modern day America.

[MELE20C]

Originally Posted by Bren

If by that, you mean throwing people in jail for what we consider constitutionally protected speech (at least when it's right of center), having no right to own guns, and going their entire lives without ever seeing a decent looking woman or drinking good liquor, I guess it may be just what you're looking for.

As a Canadian who loves America, I must correct you here. Not sure what you are referring to with the free speech thing but just like in the US, no one is listening to people like us anymore anyway. Having completed my safety course and background checks, I have a permit to obtain and use firearms. Canada, having recently dismantled the long gun registry, I can walk into a gun store today and buy a long gun and walk out with no paperwork. No 4473 type stuff. Cash on the barrelhead and out. Won`t be an AR-15 but it could be a Mini-14 only with 5 round mags. If I sell it later or have a boating accident no requirement to report that. I can even buy something here you can`t in the US, a 14`` barrelled Benelli Super Nova pump 12 gauge. I also have a Glock but it is much more strictly controlled as to paperwork and what I can do with it. As for the women, well you`ve got me there! I have family in Kentucky. When the time comes, don`t suprised to find this Canadian standing with you.

[Bren]

Originally Posted by MELE20C

As a Canadian who loves America, I must correct you here. Not sure what you are referring to with the free speech thing but just like in the US, no one is listening to people like us anymore anyway.

In Canada, advocating genocide[15] or inciting hatred[16] against any 'identifiable group' is an indictable offence under the Criminal Code of Canada with maximum prison terms of two to fourteen years. An 'identifiable group' is defined as 'any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.' It makes exceptions for cases of statements of truth, and subjects of public debate and religious doctrine. The landmark judicial decision on the constitutionality of this law was R. v. Keegstra (1990).

An unrepentant Brad Love stood in the prisoners' box and railed against political correctness Monday, before receiving a precedent-setting 18-month sentence for promoting hatred against minorities.

"You can't say anything in this country," Mr. Love, handcuffed and dressed in blue overalls, told the court after pleading guilty to 20 counts of willfully promoting hatred.

"I have to question for myself the state of affairs in my own country," he said.

"Folks like me, sometimes we create our own vision."

That vision, according to the Crown attorney's office, was communicated in numerous hate-filled letters to politicians, the national director of a Holocaust studies group and even York Region's police chief.

The racist screeds often consisted of newspaper clippings to which Mr. Love had added his own commentary, prosecutor Moiz Karimjee told Mr. Justice William Gorewich.

In America, we don't consider that freedom, although many here would like to make us more like Canada.

I have a permit to obtain and use firearms. Canada, having recently dismantled the long gun registry, I can walk into a gun store today and buy a long gun and walk out with no paperwork. No 4473 type stuff. Cash on the barrelhead and out. Won`t be an AR-15 but it could be a Mini-14 only with 5 round mags. If I sell it later or have a boating accident no requirement to report that. I can even buy something here you can`t in the US, a 14`` barrelled Benelli Super Nova pump 12 gauge. I also have a Glock but it is much more strictly controlled as to paperwork and what I can do with it.

See what I said above about free speech. Hey, you should try a Glock 26...if they ever make those legal in Canada.

[ChiTownPicaro]

Originally Posted by concretefuzzynuts

A girlfriend of mine is pushing for Ecuador. I'm not sold, it's too unstable.

If it got really bad the poo would soil Canada as well, so no to Canada.

I'm not ready to give up on the United States. This country was founded on the courage and blood of free thinking people. Humans who didn't think they should have a tyrannical ruling class but thought they could put a government together that would represent freedom of the people.

Time has passed and the ruling class has been allowed to creep back in due to a weak and lazy populous. I think the future is obvious.

Look at Argentina. I would go to Buenos Aires myself. Beautiful city and lots of culture.

[costanza187]

[stevelyn]

Originally Posted by NH Trucker

Then that's where I would go.

You'd be welcome.

Maybe we can convince Yukon and Northwest Territories to join us.

[The Fed]

Since I spent a lot of time researching what I think are the only countries worth considering, here's my comments. Please feel free to recommend other countries you actually researched, not read about in a magazine.

First, my criteria: Warm climate, good infrastructure, stable monetary system, elected government, good medical care, low cost of living, how foreigners are treated (especially seniors), and (WTF is the matter with you people!) favorable gun laws. By that I mean resident aliens being allowed to immediately apply for a permit to carry a concealed handgun for self-defense.

Second, my rant: I have to laugh when someone mentions Canada. You cannot carry a handgun for self-defense and you consider Canada? And I won't go into their weather, VAT and healthcare system. A few people mentioned Costa Rica. Bet none have researched it. It was my first choice until I did. Not bad but their infrastructure and gun laws can be better. It is slightly closer to the U.S. than some of the other countries.

Which brings me to the countries I looked into. First of all, any part of the United Kingdom. (sound of buzzer). Horrible taxes, cannot carry a handgun. Even if you could, using it will most certainly land you in prison. Hurt an intruder who breaks in to your home? You go to jail for years and get sued.

Asia. No carry permits there either.

Anywhere in the Middle East. Nope. Even Israel only allows handguns if you live in two dangerous area, the Gaza and somewhere else. Not the areas you would want to live in anyway. Plus you need to live in Israel 5 years first.

Other European countries. I didn't find one where a resident alien can carry a handgun for self-defense. Even the Swiss, with all of their assault weapons in their homes won't let you carry one.

South America. People mention countries other than Costa Rica and Panama. Please tell me which others allow newcomers to carry handguns. Costa Rica comes in second because their gun laws do not appear to be quite as good as Panama's.

So my winner is - Panama. Become a permanent resident and you can apply for a license to purchase and carry a handgun. Once you jump through all of their hoops, you can. Their cost of living is very low. You can buy healthcare insurance, if you need it, very cheaply. They supposedly have good medical care. They have good infrastructure. They have an elected government. They use the USD but reports say they are not as susceptible to its problems here. They don't have a standing Army but it's not an issue. They do have some ability to protect themselves but most importantly, the U.S. the other will never allow another country to invade it as long as the Panama Canal is in operation. And since Panama is spending Millions to widen it for the ever increasing size of cargo and cruise ships that's not probably never going to be an issue. Seniors are treated with respect. In fact, their government issues those in their pensionado program a discount card. That's the best way to get into Panama - as a retiree. You need to prove a minimum pension, like $1,200 per month. I can't remember if that's for a couple since I know I qualify. Rental prices range from cheap ($300-$400) to somewhat more expensive ($1,500 and up) per month for a gated golf course community. There are ex-pat communities but I would go for either rent a farm or a place that doesn't allow children, but that's me. You want the ultimate? Rent a place on the water with a dock and have a boat. If you need to bug out you can always motor back to the U.S. Another reason to rent a furnished place.

If anyone has found a better place that meets all of the aforementioned criteria please let me know.

[Bruce M]

Originally Posted by M&P Shooter

Already went to crap. The people of this country voted in a Muslim from Kenya to office who done nothing but lie for 4 years and at the end of the 4 years they cheered his name and re elected him, don't get much worst then that

Originally Posted by MotoGlock

That right there is the cold HARSH truth about modern day America.

And yet despite that the stock market is still making people money, instead of half of us being emaciated, half consume as many calories in a meal as a bunch of people in the world get in a week, our biggest drinking water problems involve sorting through three differrent cooler cases to figure out which kind we want, loss of electricity somewhere involving a couple thousand customers for two hours actually is newsworthy, our poor people have cell phones, and right now in about two thirds of my state everyone needs an extra half an hour to commute home because our roads are full of people escaping the cold for a week or two months. A considerable number of adults living here can carry a concealed handgun, and nearly everyone who is not a convict can at least keep a gun at home. Even when things "have already went to crap" the harsh truth is that things here are better than they are for perhaps 90% of the world.

[GRIMLET]

Originally Posted by MELE20C

I can even buy something here you can`t in the US, a 14`` barrelled Benelli Super Nova pump 12 gauge.

Oh the horror!!!
I cant imagine the carnage with a short barreled shotgun!!!
No way I would move to Canada.
That place MUST be dangerous.

Yes, I am jealous.
Hahahahahahh


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

[Jim85IROC]

I'd go to Alaska or Texas and then push for succession from the union.

[MELE20C]

Originally Posted by Bren

In America, we don't consider that freedom, although many here would like to make us more like Canada.



See what I said above about free speech. Hey, you should try a Glock 26...if they ever make those legal in Canada.

I can buy a Glock 26 here. It just comes with a 4.2 inch Lone Wolf barrel sticking way out past the slide which is dumb as hell. Our handgun laws suck. As for freedom, Canadians think they are free but they have no understanding of real freedom.

[edporch]

If the USA goes the crap, the rest of the world will follow.

[HKLovingIT]

Having been to other countries I can assure you that there are quite a few of them that are crap holes. There are nice ones too but, none like us.

I'm not going anywhere. I love it here. U.S.A.! U.S.A.! I'll take us and our problems over somewhere else any day. Unless it's like a tropical island that I have a mansion on with 300 willing 19 year old bikini babes.

What? I have my price.

Where else you going to go anyway?

Reagan- America Is The Last Stand On Earth - YouTube

Reagan- America Is The Last Stand On Earth - YouTube

[HighTechRedneck]

We could probably populate the Florida Keys and make our own little island nation. Or at least blow the bridge and keep the Miami liberals out.

[The Fed]

Originally Posted by Jim85IROC

I'd go to Alaska or Texas and then push for succession from the union.

I have a friend in Texas and discussed this with him. It's all for show since the U.S. Senate would never approve it.

[The Fed]

Originally Posted by edporch

If the USA goes the crap, the rest of the world will follow.

Depends how long though. Some will immediately fall while others will not or would take years. You can wait it out if you pick the right place.

[The Fed]

Originally Posted by HKLovingIT

Having been to other countries I can assure you that there are quite a few of them that are crap holes. There are nice ones too but, none like us.

I'm not going anywhere. I love it here. U.S.A.! U.S.A.! I'll take us and our problems over somewhere else any day. Unless it's like a tropical island that I have a mansion on with 300 willing 19 year old bikini babes.

What? I have my price.

Where else you going to go anyway?

Reagan- America Is The Last Stand On Earth - YouTube

Reagan was right. But that was then.

[The Fed]

Originally Posted by HighTechRedneck

We could probably populate the Florida Keys and make our own little island nation. Or at least blow the bridge and keep the Miami liberals out.

Florida has plenty of islands for sale but I haven't seen one that was priced reasonable enough, considering you usually don't have little things, like electricity.

[Landmonster]

Here's the thing.

Some of you guys act like fleeing our home country is unpatriotic.

Well, the original founders of this country did exactly that. They fled their home countries! They fled places which had become too tyrannical, expensive, or oppressive! They sought freedom, opportunity, and a chance in a a new land to grow and improve their lives.

The ORIGINAL land of America provided exactly that for the settlers. It was a vast and unexplored wilderness, with virtually unlimited and untapped natural resources. It was a land with seeming unlimited potential: bountiful resources, very lax laws, and tons of freedom. The only limit to someone's success was their own ingenuity and ability to work.

Gradually, the settlers created a life for themselves, and their settlements became very economically prosperous.

Over time, the King of England only really became interested in America when he noticed how prosperous the colonists were, and how much money they were making! The crown was greedy, and wanted some of that for themselves, so they sought to constantly increase their taxes.

The colonists were very angry about that, and they were willing to fight and rebel. But think about what they were willing to fight for.... they were fighting to preserve their liberty and fortunes. They wanted to protect their new way of life in a new land of virtually unlimited potential.

Does that exist for us living in America today?

----------------

Here's the problem today.

We Americans have much less opportunity in this land. Lots of the natural resources are already owned, or discovered. There's no new uncharted land to explore and claim. The country is densely populated, economic growth is slow, and jobs are hard to obtain. Cost of living is increasing, and our dollar is weakening.

So it might seem that the best course of action would be to flee. Unfortunately, there is NO PLACE TO FLEE TO. There is no "bountiful untapped wilderness" where we can start new lives and grow rich. There are only other countries where the governments are inept, borderline-oppressive, or simply corrupt.

Of course, there's always the opportunity to stay, fight, and attempt a revolution. (This is viewed as the most patriotic for some reason.)

But here's 2 very large problems with that:
1) The active number of would-be revolutionaries is probably smaller than you think. Then they would have to be organized, trained, and compensated somehow. (I'm not so sure how many gun-toting, able patriots really exist to wage a war. Nor am I sure that the police and/or military would participate in a revolution... a significant number of them are liberal themselves.)

2) A large percentage of the population of the current America is very liberal. The current country is now filled with millions of liberal people who gladly support oppressive, liberal governments. They have no reason to rebel, and they would resist any sort of revolution. Thus, they would need to be dealt with somehow... either through negotiations, deportations, pay outs, or violence.

[Glock20 10mm]

Hey, you can only run so long and eventually you are either gonna have to face what you are running from, or die from exhaustion. Better to stand your ground, plan, prep and rest up for the coming poo storm. You can't save something by running from your problems.

[The Fed]

Originally Posted by Glock20 10mm

Hey, you can only run so long and eventually you are either gonna have to face what you are running from, or die from exhaustion. Better to stand your ground, plan, prep and rest up for the coming poo storm. You can't save something by running from your problems.

For sure, you'll never survive in the U.S. The gangs will hunt you down, kill you and take your food and water. These preppers are fooling themselves. Wait until the Bloods, Crips and MS13 come a knocking.

Oh, wait - you have an AR. LOL.

[Glockworks]

Push back, like the Jews did not do in many other totalitarian states, I've learned from history. No, this country will not go the way of other totalitarian states if good people do stand up. This BS I'm watching on ABC news with Diane Sawyer is sickening in their pandering to the creeps wanting to take the guns from law abiding people.

[Glockworks]

Korean shopkeepers kicked the asses of the gangs as they did not wilt at defending what was their's during the LA riots. I remember when the police were terrified to enter those areas, the local shopkeepers (Korean in this case) kicked butt. Gangs are allowed to exist because of the weak and the laws that protect the gangs from retribution. MS13 and such would be exterminated if it were not for the "law" holding the good folks back.

[Glock20 10mm]

Originally Posted by The Fed

For sure, you'll never survive in the U.S. The gangs will hunt you down, kill you and take your food and water. These preppers are fooling themselves. Wait until the Bloods, Crips and MS13 come a knocking.

Oh, wait - you have an AR. LOL.

Some of us have much more than weapons, we have military training and experience, we have community and the key portions of our plans are not public knowledge. The folks on TV are doing it either to boost their ego or fatten their wallet.

Our community meets regularly to discuss and prepare for the possibility of a "gang invasion". And with my regular patrols running undesirables out of our neck of the woods the message is getting out that we are watching, aware and prepared. Gangs look for soft targets not hardened ones.