[ArmoryDoc]

Doing some Sig shopping and I am really liking the Sig lineup. Not a huge fan of rails but I am an afficiando of Sig products. What say you about the current Sig P226 railed guns ? I used to have a non-railed West German P226 back in the early 90's but like a dummy, sold it. Todays gun a solid buy ?

[Tmoney33]

I picked up a Sig P226 Scorpion a couple weeks ago. Love it. The SRT trigger is very nice. I would check summitgunbroker.com as Mark got some more Sigs in and his prices can't be beat.

[mr00jimbo]

I think that a lot of people will say they prefer the West German model. My German model Sig had an excellent trigger and workmanship. However, I just paid full retail for an MK25, which seems to be getting excellent reviews. I know it's gimmicky and I usually fault Sig for its gimmicks, but I believe people are generally happy with their P226R made in NH.

I voted with my wallet for a UU-serial number Sig P226R.
Some people will claim to only like the German ones.

[ArmoryDoc]

Looks like a lot of online reviews in favor in the newer ones. There are some obvious differences visually from the older West German models. I handled a UU model today and it felt really great.

[bac1023]

They aren't for me, but are solid guns.

[ArmoryDoc]

Originally Posted by bac1023

They aren't for me, but are solid guns.

Just curious, what do you not like about them ? The rails ? I know you aren't a rail guy.

[itisbruno]

Originally Posted by mr00jimbo

I think that a lot of people will say they prefer the West German model. My German model Sig had an excellent trigger and workmanship. However, I just paid full retail for an MK25, which seems to be getting excellent reviews. I know it's gimmicky and I usually fault Sig for its gimmicks, but I believe people are generally happy with their P226R made in NH.

I voted with my wallet for a UU-serial number Sig P226R.
Some people will claim to only like the German ones.

How you like the MK25?

I'm not a rail guy, so I'll stick with my W. German friends.

[crazymoose]

Most of their new models seem geared toward pimps and mall ninjas, but the classic guns are still pretty decent, if overpriced. SIG seems to be slowly getting the QC bugs worked out from the drastic cost-cutting measures put into place when Cohen took over.

[Rinspeed]

I don't have much use for rails and definitely prefer the older Sigs.

[HKLovingIT]

Originally Posted by crazymoose

Most of their new models seem geared toward pimps and mall ninjas, but the classic guns are still pretty decent, if overpriced. SIG seems to be slowly getting the QC bugs worked out from the drastic cost-cutting measures put into place when Cohen took over.

They sure do make a right purdy pimp gun these days. Then there are the diamond plate models. That really had me scratching my head.

[ArmoryDoc]

Yeah, the Diamond Plate version is about ridiculous.

[wolf19r]

I bought a P226 navy not the new mk25 model last year and its a nice quality and shoots great. I dont mind the rail on it and I picked it up for $650 or 700 I dont remember brand new with the 3 15 round mags.

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[willieH]

Originally Posted by ArmoryDoc

Doing some Sig shopping and I am really liking the Sig lineup. Not a huge fan of rails but I am an afficiando of Sig products. What say you about the current Sig P226 railed guns ? I used to have a non-railed West German P226 back in the early 90's but like a dummy, sold it. Todays gun a solid buy ?

Is the German stamped/folded internal extractor slide different from the milled American external extractor slide? Yes.
Is the stamped steel slide more prone to rust? Yes
Have there been problems with internal extractor on German slides? Yes
Have there been problems with the early model external extractors? Yes
Have there been reported cracking in P226 1986-7 modified "mud rail" models? Yes
Is the milled stainless steel slide stronger than the stamped slide? Yes.
Do the German have a longer hammer spring and stacking DA trigger pull? Yes.
Do some feel that American quality standards are lacking? Yes

My point: there are no perfect machines or manufacturers and design/production/QA faults will be identified. However, in my experience with my Sigs-- their performance has been flawless and I have been able to achieve better accuracy with the P226 and P220.

Do I think the current P226 a solid buy? Yes
Will I change my opinion after 10,000 rounds? Maybe.
Does the company stand behind it product? Yes
Will I buy another Sig? Yes-I'm interested in a P227.

[G26S239]

My P229R 40 is just about 7.5 years old. Runs great and accurate. My P229 9mm Tutone is 6 months newer without the rail and likewise is accurate and reliable. As willieH pointed out the good old days when all Sigs were perfect is a myth. All of my Sigs, 5 that I still own and 3 that I don't, were 1998 to 2008 manufacture and all have been trouble free.

[Bruce M]

If I wanted another P226 I would seriously consider these http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1470594

[willieH]

Originally Posted by crazymoose

Most of their new models seem geared toward pimps and mall ninjas, but the classic guns are still pretty decent, if overpriced. SIG seems to be slowly getting the QC bugs worked out from the drastic cost-cutting measures put into place when Cohen took over.

I assume that you disapprove of a company identifying a market niche and gearing their products to fulfill that need. I've seen lots of smaller guns & pink grips that various makers are offering to appeal to a growing group of women seeking firearms.

When you say "overpriced" are you speaking of production cost vs sticker or in comparison to other pistols? The most overpriced popular guns are Glocks- actual manufacturing costs to sales price.

When Ron Cohen joined Sigarms Inc. in 2004, the company was in poor financial shape and close to bankruptcy. The "drastic cost-cutting measures" and mass firings of upper management was essential to revitalizing a failing company. Under Cohen's leadership along with the new team he encouraged innovation and flexibility to quickly bring new products to the market. These "Rainbow" and "Diamond Plate" pistols may appeal to a different market segment than traditional gun people, but efforts to capture new groups of firearm enthusiast is part of Sig's customer driven vision. A look at Sig's discontinued products page tells you that not all of their ideas were successful.

Since Cohen, Sig Sauer Inc., has grown over four times and consolidated the (previously outsourced) engineering and manufacturing functions in Exeter, New Hampshire. When one in three LE professionals in the USA uses a Sig, then the reputation for reliability must be valid.

[hoghunter82]

Very well written. I need to dip my foot in the Sig pool one day. Never owned one but have been close many times.


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[Beretta92guy]

im a long-time sig fan...but one thing i DON'T like are the new "skinny" triggers they put on all of them now.....

[MarcDW]

While the management and CS of "SIG what ever US" does not deserve any respect, the P226 in any form is a good gun.

[collim1]

I would still buy a new production Sig. My 2010 model P220R has proven itself to be a real trooper. Extremely reliable and accurate.

[mr00jimbo]

Originally Posted by itisbruno

How you like the MK25?

I'm not a rail guy, so I'll stick with my W. German friends.

I haven't received it yet. Hopefully by Monday. It's in the mail right now (tracking its progress online)

[03Cobra]

no failures here; not a glock, but a great shooter for sure. I've never owned a German version but I don't know how they could be any better.

[Rancher]

I own two P226 Sigs both in 9mm, just looked at the one by my bed and it only has one "U" before the serial no. and is around 6 years old. Says frame made in Germany. It has a tail while my other does not. Both were bought around the same time and the one with the beavertail has a steel guide rod and the other has a plastic one. Both are awesome shooters and have been 100% with not quite 1k rounds through them. Mostly WWB.

I like the rail. Got an old M3 Streamlight on the one by my bed. Heavy as hell but can beat someone to death with it if I go dry, but with 39 rounds to use with one mag change doubt that will happen. It also has the SRT which is sweet. The "skinny" triggers someone mentioned are called "short triggers" and can be changed out. Think they were made for people with smaller hands? For whatever reason the SRT models I have seen has them.

I would not like it on my hip all day due to the weight but it's perfect for the nightstand. Prefer a G17 on the farm. The Sigs are too pretty to get beat up while working!

Rancher

[crazymoose]

Originally Posted by willieH

I assume that you disapprove of a company identifying a market niche and gearing their products to fulfill that need. I've seen lots of smaller guns & pink grips that various makers are offering to appeal to a growing group of women seeking firearms.

When you say "overpriced" are you speaking of production cost vs sticker or in comparison to other pistols? The most overpriced popular guns are Glocks- actual manufacturing costs to sales price.

When Ron Cohen joined Sigarms Inc. in 2004, the company was in poor financial shape and close to bankruptcy. The "drastic cost-cutting measures" and mass firings of upper management was essential to revitalizing a failing company. Under Cohen's leadership along with the new team he encouraged innovation and flexibility to quickly bring new products to the market. These "Rainbow" and "Diamond Plate" pistols may appeal to a different market segment than traditional gun people, but efforts to capture new groups of firearm enthusiast is part of Sig's customer driven vision. A look at Sig's discontinued products page tells you that not all of their ideas were successful.

Since Cohen, Sig Sauer Inc., has grown over four times and consolidated the (previously outsourced) engineering and manufacturing functions in Exeter, New Hampshire. When one in three LE professionals in the USA uses a Sig, then the reputation for reliability must be valid.

Cohen is an effective businessman, I will say that, and his business model takes advantage of a reality in the firearms marketplace: most gun purchasers do not do much shooting. Building guns to far exceed the demands which most shooters will place upon them does not make much business sense. Similarly, it is cheaper to cut quality-control corners and rectify, via warranty, the mistakes that slip through than it is to stringently test them all. However, those who shoot higher round counts, and those who are more likely than the general public to have to defend themselves with these guns have generally not been pleased by the bumps along the road in the transition. While the switch to a machined stainless slide is a welcome change (as rust and broken breech-block pins are no longer concerns), the issues with breakage of outsourced MIM parts is a problem virtually unknown with the West German guns. As I said, SIG seems to be bringing these problems under control, but the horror stories of things like takedown levers snapping off of guns that have been hardly fired have tarnished the brand's reputation in a way that will take time to undo.

The teething problems of the P250, along with the debacles of the Air Marshals' adoption of the pistol, its refusal by the ATF (and SIG's objection to the decision that the ATF placed too much emphasis on reliability), and the Dutch dumping the pistol only worsens the perception of slipping standards.

Link to ATF report: http://www.gao.gov/decisions/bidpro/4023393.htm

As for the much diversified product line, that's SIG's business prerogative, but, to turn a phrase on its head, when one door opens, another closes. The more colorful offerings may attract newer and casual shooters, but a lot of people see it as an indication that the company's philosophy has changed, and that SIG is no longer a company whose sole focus is accurate, boringly reliable duty guns.

My opinion of SIG is actually not nearly as harsh as this diatribe suggests. Like I said, the machined slides are a good move. They seem to have now found MIM parts vendors who can deliver decent parts. The SRT trigger is a fantastic solution to one of my biggest gripes with SIG pistols- the very long trigger reset. I really like the fact that SAO models are coming out.

My opinion, for whatever it's worth, is that SIG should drop the shiny guns, put the SRT trigger in all of their DA guns, stop putting beavertails and rails on everything, and adopt H&K's draconian approach to QC.

[86brick]

I have not had any issues with my Exeter made SIG P226R. Shoots accurately, reliable with several different brands of ammo, including hollow points. Frankly, considering the rust issues I've heard about with the older German models I am happy I purchased a new SIG with the stainless slide. Having said that, any company can and likely will have quality control issues from time to time, but as long as they are willing to take care of the issues they are good in my book.