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Old 01-29-2013, 22:01   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighTechRedneck View Post
I call BS. I thought meth was supposed to make you lose weight!!
It does make you stop eating, so I'm guessing some kind of facial edema similar to what methylprednisone causes? HH
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Old 01-29-2013, 22:07   #152
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Originally Posted by HollowHead View Post
It does make you stop eating, so I'm guessing some kind of facial edema similar to what methylprednisone causes? HH
Maybe she was on bath salts and not meth. Looks like she didn't stop at the face... She ate the whole damn person.
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Old 01-29-2013, 22:09   #153
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Originally Posted by HighTechRedneck View Post
Maybe she was on bath salts and not meth. Looks like she didn't stop at the face... She ate the whole damn person.
What is that crap, anyway? I've seen it mentioned recently. HH
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Old 01-30-2013, 00:52   #154
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Originally Posted by sombunya View Post
I've seen these threads before but I forgot, why should we legalize this stuff, and therefore make it cheaper and easier to get?
It >IS< legal when given a perscription from a medical doctor. I don't understand why this seems to be unknown because Desoxyn has been around forever.

It's used for ADHD treatement and Narcolepsy --- yes , it is meth-amphetamine as in the same drug that people create in clandestine labs and commonly blow themselves up.

And yes , in the USA you can go to CVS and get methamphetamine with a perscription.

Many of the before/after pics of meth are misleading ... yes , addiction ruins lives but many of these pictures are made to seem like the drug made people look "like that" , and that's usually incorrect.

People being stupid trying to create schedule 2 substances in there garage's or in 2 liter coke bottles and driving and blowing the skin off there body has nothing to do with the drug , it's the person attempting to make the drug.

Adderall (Amphetamine Salt) , Dexedrine (D-Amphetamine) , and Desoxyn (meth-amphetamine) help people with legitimate medical issues every day ... including children.

But -- like every substance that has abuse potential , people will abuse it , and people will die from it.

Just wanted to clarify this because too many people don't know Meth is Schedule 2 and avaible by perscription , and people think using it will make you loose your teeth and have red burned skin.

http://www.rxlist.com/desoxyn-drug.htm

Quote:
DESOXYN ®
(methamphetamine hydrochloride) Tablets, USP

METHAMPHETAMINE HAS A HIGH POTENTIAL FOR ABUSE. IT SHOULD THUS BE TRIED ONLY IN WEIGHT REDUCTION PROGRAMS FOR PATIENTS IN WHOM ALTERNATIVE THERAPY HAS BEEN INEFFECTIVE. ADMINISTRATION OF METHAMPHETAMINE FOR PROLONGED PERIODS OF TIME IN OBESITY MAY LEAD TO DRUG DEPENDENCE AND MUST BE AVOIDED. PARTICULAR ATTENTION SHOULD BE PAID TO THE POSSIBILITY OF SUBJECTS OBTAINING METHAMPHETAMINE FOR NON-THERAPEUTIC USE OR DISTRIBUTION TO OTHERS, AND THE DRUG SHOULD BE PRESCRIBED OR DISPENSED SPARINGLY. MISUSE OF METHAMPHETAMINE MAY CAUSE SUDDEN DEATH AND SERIOUS CARDIOVASCULAR ADVERSE EVENTS.

RX ONLY

DESCRIPTION

Desoxyn® (methamphetamine hydrochloride tablets, USP), chemically known as (S)-N,α-dimethylbenzeneethanamine hydrochloride, is a member of the amphetamine group of sympathomimetic amines. It has the following structural formula:


Desoxyn tablets contain 5 mg of methamphetamine hydrochloride for oral administration.

Inactive Ingredients:

Corn starch, lactose, sodium paraminobenzoate, stearic acid and talc.

CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY

Methamphetamine is a sympathomimetic amine with CNS stimulant activity. Peripheral actions include elevation of systolic and diastolic blood pressures and weak bronchodilator and respiratory stimulant action. Drugs of this class used in obesity are commonly known as "anorectics" or "anorexigenics". It has not been established, however, that the action of such drugs in treating obesity is primarily one of appetite suppression. Other central nervous system actions, or metabolic effects, may be involved, for example.

Adult obese subjects instructed in dietary management and treated with "anorectic" drugs, lose more weight on the average than those treated with placebo and diet, as determined in relatively short-term clinical trials.

The magnitude of increased weight loss of drug-treated patients over placebo-treated patients is only a fraction of a pound a week. The rate of weight loss is greatest in the first weeks of therapy for both drug and placebo subjects and tends to decrease in succeeding weeks. The origins of the increased weight loss due to the various possible drug effects are not established. The amount of weight loss associated with the use of an "anorectic" drug varies from trial to trial, and the increased weight loss appears to be related in part to variables other than the drug prescribed, such as the physician-investigator, the population treated, and the diet prescribed. Studies do not permit conclusions as to the relative importance of the drug and non-drug factors on weight loss.

The natural history of obesity is measured in years, whereas the studies cited are restricted to a few weeks duration; thus, the total impact of drug-induced weight loss over that of diet alone must be considered clinically limited.

The mechanism of action involved in producing the beneficial behavioral changes seen in hyperkinetic children receiving methamphetamine is unknown.

In humans, methamphetamine is rapidly absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract. The primary site of metabolism is in the liver by aromatic hydroxylation, N-dealkylation and deamination. At least seven metabolites have been identified in the urine. The biological half-life has been reported in the range of 4 to 5 hours. Excretion occurs primarily in the urine and is dependent on urine pH. Alkaline urine will significantly increase the drug half-life. Approximately 62% of an oral dose is eliminated in the urine within the first 24 hours with about one-third as intact drug and the remainder as metabolites.

INDICATIONS AND USAGE

Attention Deficit Disorder with Hyperactivity: Desoxyn tablets are indicated as an integral part of a total treatment program which typically includes other remedial measures (psychological, educational, social) for a stabilizing effect in children over 6 years of age with a behavioral syndrome characterized by the following group of developmentally inappropriate symptoms: moderate to severe distractibility, short attention span, hyperactivity, emotional lability, and impulsivity. The diagnosis of this syndrome should not be made with finality when these symptoms are only of comparatively recent origin. Nonlocalizing (soft) neurological signs, learning disability, and abnormal EEG may or may not be present, and a diagnosis of central nervous system dysfunction may or may not be warranted.

Exogenous Obesity: as a short-term (i.e., a few weeks) adjunct in a regimen of weight reduction based on caloric restriction, for patients in whom obesity is refractory to alternative therapy, e.g., repeated diets, group programs, and other drugs.

The limited usefulness of Desoxyn tablets (see CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY) should be weighed against possible risks inherent in use of the drug, such as those described below.

CONTRAINDICATIONS

Desoxyn tablets are contraindicated during or within 14 days following the administration of monoamine oxidase inhibitors; hypertensive crisis may result. It is also contraindicated in patients with glaucoma, advanced arteriosclerosis, symptomatic cardiovascular disease, moderate to severe hypertension, hyperthyroidism or known hypersensitivity or idiosyncrasy to sympathomimetic amines. Methamphetamine should not be given to patients who are in an agitated state or who have a history of drug abuse.

WARNINGS

Tolerance to the anorectic effect usually develops within a few weeks. When this occurs, the recommended dose should not be exceeded in an attempt to increase the effect; rather, the drug should be discontinued (see DRUG ABUSE AND DEPENDENCE).

Serious Cardiovascular Events

Sudden Death and Pre-existing Structural Cardiac Abnormalities or Other Serious Heart Problems:

Psychiatric Adverse Events

Pre-existing Psychosis: Administration of stimulants may exacerbate symptoms of behavior disturbance and thought disorder in patients with a pre-existing psychotic disorder.

Bipolar Illness: Particular care should be taken in using stimulants to treat ADHD in patients with comorbid bipolar disorder because of concern for possible induction of a mixed/manic episode in such patients. Prior to initiating treatment with a stimulant, patients with comorbid depressive symptoms should be adequately screened to determine if they are at risk for bipolar disorder; such screening should include a detailed psychiatric history, including a family history of suicide, bipolar disorder, and depression.

Emergence of New Psychotic or Manic Symptoms: Treatment emergent psychotic or manic symptoms, e.g., hallucinations, delusional thinking, or mania in children and adolescents without a prior history of psychotic illness or mania can be caused by stimulants at usual doses. If such symptoms occur, consideration should be given to a possible causal role of the stimulant, and discontinuation of treatment may be appropriate. In a pooled analysis of multiple short-term, placebo-controlled studies, such symptoms occurred in about 0.1% (4 patients with events out of 3482 exposed to methylphenidate or amphetamine for several weeks at usual doses) of stimulant-treated patients compared to 0 in placebo-treated patients.

Aggression: Aggressive behavior or hostility is often observed in children and adolescents with ADHD, and has been reported in clinical trials and the postmarketing experience of some medications indicated for the treatment of ADHD. Although there is no systematic evidence that stimulants cause aggressive behavior or hostility, patients beginning treatment for ADHD should be monitored for the appearance of or worsening of aggressive behavior or hostility.

Long-Term Suppression of Growth: Careful follow-up of weight and height in children ages 7 to 10 years who were randomized to either methylphenidate or non-medication treatment groups over 14 months, as well as in naturalistic subgroups of newly methylphenidate-treated and non-medication treated children over 36 months (to the ages of 10 to 13 years), suggests that consistently medicated children (i.e., treatment for 7 days per week throughout the year) have a temporary slowing in growth rate (on average, a total of about 2 cm less growth in height and 2.7 kg less growth in weight over 3 years), without evidence of growth rebound during this period of development. Published data are inadequate to determine whether chronic use of amphetamines may cause a similar suppression of growth, however, it is anticipated that they likely have this effect as well. Therefore, growth should be monitored during treatment with stimulants, and patients who are not growing or gaining height or weight as expected may need to have their treatment interrupted.

Seizures; There is some clinical evidence that stimulants may lower the convulsive threshold in patients with prior history of seizures, in patients with prior EEG abnormalities in absence of seizures, and, very rarely, in patients without a history of seizures and no prior EEG evidence of seizures. In the presence of seizures, the drug should be discontinued.

Visual Disturbance: Difficulties with accommodation and blurring of vision have been reported with stimulant treatment.

PRECAUTIONS

General

Desoxyn® tablets should be used with caution in patients with even mild hypertension.

Methamphetamine should not be used to combat fatigue or to replace rest in normal persons.

Prescribing and dispensing of methamphetamine should be limited to the smallest amount that is feasible at one time in order to minimize the possibility of overdosage.

Information for Patients

The patient should be informed that methamphetamine may impair the ability to engage in potentially hazardous activities, such as, operating machinery or driving a motor vehicle.

The patient should be cautioned not to increase dosage, except on advice of the physician.

Prescribers or other health professionals should inform patients, their families, and their caregivers about the benefits and risks associated with treatment with methamphetamine and should counsel them in its appropriate use. A patient Medication Guide is available for Desoxyn. The prescriber or health professional should instruct patients, their families, and their caregivers to read the Medication Guide and should assist them in understanding its contents. Patients should be given the opportunity to discuss the contents of the Medication Guide and to obtain answers to any questions they may have. The complete text of the Medication Guide is available at www.Lundbeckinc.com.

Drug Interactions

Insulin requirements in diabetes mellitus may be altered in association with the use of methamphetamine and the concomitant dietary regimen. Methamphetamine may decrease the hypotensive effect of guanethidine.

Desoxyn should not be used concurrently with monoamine oxidase inhibitors (see CONTRAINDICATIONS).

Concurrent administration of tricyclic antidepressants and indirect-acting sympathomimetic amines such as the amphetamines, should be closely supervised and dosage carefully adjusted.

Phenothiazines are reported in the literature to antagonize the CNS stimulant action of the amphetamines.

Drug/Laboratory Test Interactions

Literature reports suggest that amphetamines may be associated with significant elevation of plasma corticosteroids. This should be considered if determination of plasma corticosteroid levels is desired in a person receiving amphetamines.

Carcinogenesis, Mutagenesis, Impairment of Fertility

Data are not available on long-term potential for carcinogenicity, mutagenicity, or impairment of fertility.

Pregnancy

Teratogenic effects
Pregnancy Category C. Methamphetamine has been shown to have teratogenic and embryocidal effects in mammals given high multiples of the human dose. There are no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women. Desoxyn tablets should not be used during pregnancy unless the potential benefit justifies the potential risk to the fetus.

Nonteratogenic effects
Infants born to mothers dependent on amphetamines have an increased risk of premature delivery and low birth weight. Also, these infants may experience symptoms of withdrawal as demonstrated by dysphoria, including agitation and significant lassitude.

Usage in Nursing Mothers
Amphetamines are excreted in human milk. Mothers taking amphetamines should be advised to refrain from nursing.

Pediatric Use

Safety and effectiveness for use as an anorectic agent in children below the age of 12 years have not been established.

Long-term effects of methamphetamine in children have not been established (see WARNINGS).

Drug treatment is not indicated in all cases of the behavioral syndrome characterized by moderate to severe distractibility, short attention span, hyperactivity, emotional lability and impulsivity. It should be considered only in light of the complete history and evaluation of the child. The decision to prescribe Desoxyn tablets should depend on the physician's assessment of the chronicity and severity of the child's symptoms and their appropriateness for his/her age. Prescription should not depend solely on the presence of one or more of the behavioral characteristics.

When these symptoms are associated with acute stress reactions, treatment with Desoxyn tablets is usually not indicated.

Clinical experience suggests that in psychotic children, administration of Desoxyn tablets may exacerbate symptoms of behavior disturbance and thought disorder.

Amphetamines have been reported to exacerbate motor and phonic tics and Tourette's syndrome. Therefore, clinical evaluation for tics and Tourette's syndrome in children and their families should precede use of stimulant medications.


Geriatric Use

Clinical Studies of Desoxyn did not include sufficient numbers of subjects age 65 years and over to determine whether elderly subjects respond differently from younger subjects. Other reported clinical experience has not identified differences in responses between the elderly and younger patients. In general, dose selection for an elderly patient should be cautious, usually starting at the low end of the dosing range, reflecting the greater frequency of decreased hepatic, renal or cardiac function, and of concomitant disease or other drug therapy observed in this population.

ADVERSE REACTIONS

The following are adverse reactions in decreasing order of severity within each category that have been reported:

Cardiovascular: Elevation of blood pressure, tachycardia and palpitation. Fatal cardiorespiratory arrest has been reported, mostly in the context of abuse/misuse.

Central Nervous System: Psychotic episodes have been rarely reported at recommended doses. Dizziness, dysphoria, overstimulation, euphoria, insomnia, tremor, restlessness and headache. Exacerbation of motor and phonic tics and Tourette's syndrome.

Read the Medication Guide that comes with Desoxyn® before you or your child starts taking it and each time you get a refill.

There may be new information. This Medication Guide does not take the place of talking to your or your child's doctor about your or your child's treatment with Desoxyn.

What is the most important information I should know about Desoxyn?

The following have been reported with use of methamphetamine

hydrochloride and other stimulant medicines.

1. Heart-related problems:

sudden death in patients who have heart problems or heart defects
stroke and heart attack in adults
increased blood pressure and heart rate
Tell your or your child's doctor if you or your child have any heart problems, heart defects, high blood pressure, or a family history of these problems.

Your or your child's doctor should check you or your child carefully for heart problems before starting Desoxyn.

Your or your child's doctor should check you or your child's blood pressure and heart rate regularly during treatment with Desoxyn.

Call your or your child's doctor right away if you or your child has any signs of heart problems such as chest pain, shortness of breath, or fainting while taking Desoxyn.

2. Mental (Psychiatric) problems:

All Patients

new or worse behavior and thought problems
new or worse bipolar illness
new or worse aggressive behavior or hostility
Children and Teenagers

new psychotic symptoms (such as hearing voices, believing things that are not true, are suspicious) or new manic symptoms
Tell your or your child's doctor about any mental problems you or your child have, or about a family history of suicide, bipolar illness, or depression.

Call your or your child's doctor right away if you or your child have any new or worsening mental symptoms or problems while taking Desoxyn, especially seeing or hearing things that are not real, believing things that are not real, or are suspicious.

What is Desoxyn?

Desoxyn is a central nervous system stimulant prescription medicine. It is used for the treatment of Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder; (ADHD).

Desoxyn may help increase attention and decrease impulsiveness and hyperactivity in patients with ADHD.

Desoxyn should be used as a part of a total treatment program for ADHD that may include counseling or other therapies.

Desoxyn is also used short-term, along with a low calorie diet, for weight loss in obese patients who have not been able to lose weight on other therapies.

Desoxyn is a federally controlled substance (CII) because it can be abused or lead to dependence. Keep Desoxyn in a safe place to prevent misuse and abuse. Selling or giving away Desoxyn may harm others, and is against the law.

Tell your or your child's doctor if you or your child have (or have a family history of) ever abused or been dependent on alcohol, prescription medicines or street drugs.

Who should not take Desoxyn?

Desoxyn should not be taken if you or your child:

have heart disease or hardening of the arteries
have moderate to severe high blood pressure
have hyperthyroidism
have an eye problem called glaucoma
are agitated
have a history of drug abuse
are taking or have taken within the past 14 days an antidepression medicine called a monoamine oxidase inhibitor or MAOI.
are sensitive to, allergic to, or had a reaction to other stimulant medicines
Desoxyn is not recommended for use in children less than 6 years old in the treatment of ADHD.

Desoxyn may not be right for you or your child. Before starting Desoxyn tell your or your child's doctor about all health conditions (or a family history of) including:

heart problems, heart defects, high blood pressure
mental problems including psychosis, mania, bipolar illness or depression
tics or Tourette's syndrome
thyroid problems
diabetes
seizures or have had an abnormal brain wave test (EEG)
Tell your or your child's doctor if you or your child is pregnant, planning to become pregnant, or breastfeeding.

Can Desoxyn be taken with other medicines?

Tell your or your child's doctor about all of the medicines that you or your child take including prescription and nonprescription medicines, vitamins, and herbal supplements.

Desoxyn and some medicines may interact with each other and cause serious side effects. Sometimes the doses of other medicines will need to be adjusted while taking Desoxyn.

Your or your child's doctor will decide whether Desoxyn can be taken with other medicines.

Especially tell your or your child's doctor if you or your child takes:

anti-depression medicines including MAOIs
anti-psychotic medicines
blood pressure medicines
insulin
seizure medicines
Know the medicines that you or your child takes. Keep a list of your medicines with you to show your doctor and pharmacist.

Do not start any new medicine while taking Desoxyn without talking to your or your child's doctor first.

How should Desoxyn be taken?

Take Desoxyn exactly as prescribed. Your or your child's doctor may adjust the dose until it is right for you or your child.
Desoxyn is usually taken 1 or 2 times each day.
From time to time, your or your child's doctor may stop Desoxyn treatment for a while to check ADHD symptoms.
Your or your child's doctor may do regular checks of the blood, heart, and blood pressure while taking Desoxyn. Children should have their height and weight checked often while taking Desoxyn. Desoxyn treatment may be stopped if a problem is found during these check-ups.
If you or your child takes too much Desoxyn or overdoses, call your or your child's doctor or poison control center right away, or get emergency treatment.
What are possible side effects of Desoxyn?

See "What is the most important information I should know about Desoxyn?" for information on reported heart and mental problems.

Other serious side effects include:

slowing of growth (height and weight) in children
seizures, mainly in patients with a history of seizures
eyesight changes or blurred vision
Common side effects include:

*****• fast heart beat **********• decreased appetite

*****• tremors *********************• headache

*****• trouble sleeping *******• dizziness

*****• stomach upset *********• weight loss

*****• dry mouth

Desoxyn may affect your or your child's ability to drive or do other dangerous activities.

Talk to your or your child's doctor if you or your child has side effects that are bothersome or do not go away.

This is not a complete list of possible side effects. Ask your or your child's doctor or pharmacist for more information.

Call your or your child's doctor for medical advice about side effects. You may report side effects to FDA at 1-800-FDA-1088.

How should I store Desoxyn?

Store Desoxyn in a safe place below 86°F (30°C). Protect from light.
Keep Desoxyn and all medicines out of the reach of children.
General information about Desoxyn

Medicines are sometimes prescribed for purposes other than those listed in a Medication Guide. Do not use Desoxyn for a condition for which it was not prescribed. Do not give Desoxyn to other people, even if they have the same condition. It may harm them and it is against the law.

This Medication Guide summarizes the most important information about Desoxyn. If you would like more information, talk with your or your child's doctor. You can ask your or your child's doctor or pharmacist for information about Desoxyn that was written for healthcare professionals.

For more information about Desoxyn, contact Lundbeck Inc. at 1-800-455-1141 or visit www.Lundbeckinc.com.

What are the ingredients in Desoxyn?

Active Ingredient: methamphetamine hydrochloride

Inactive Ingredients: Corn starch, lactose, sodium paraminobenzoate, stearic acid and talc

This Medication Guide has been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

Lundbeck Inc.

Deerfield, IL 60015, U.S.A.

® Trademark of Lundbeck Inc.

Revised: May 2009
Per FDA
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Old 01-30-2013, 00:56   #155
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No difference, eh? I guess you see the same difference between 3.2 beer and grain alcohol, eh?
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Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:47   #156
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No difference, eh? I guess you see the same difference between 3.2 beer and grain alcohol, eh?
Alcohol is alcohol ... It is what it is. It can be used lightly , heavily , and deadly.

You can get alcohol poising and die from beer , as well as grain alcohol ...

Your not making a point -- yeah , grain alcohol has much more "active ingredient" then a Budweiser ---

But they are both alcohol.

Stop replying to all my posts with your smart-ass remarks , find someone else to debate everyone of there posts with duchebag.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:41   #157
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If you follow the rabbit hole, most certainly they do. They have a financial incentive for it to continue. Fewer laws, fewer arrests, less funding, fewer cops, less overtime.

Your last point contradicts wpbteck's point above
I'm even more skeptical. Rousting a pothead is an easy gig. If they spend their entire shift rousting potheads, they go home safe, and don't have to encounter the really hard core criminals. It increases their odds of an easy shift. After all, these are largely union workers.

If they are busy on a drug related call, when that home invasion call, armed robbery, or that "shots fired" call comes in, they don't have to respond, and can "go home safe". And that's what it's all about.

Rousting drug users is like rousting johns, it's easy money. That's not to say that every now and then, they get in the **** with a badass.

flame suit on.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:01   #158
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I'm even more skeptical. Rousting a pothead is an easy gig. If they spend their entire shift rousting potheads, they go home safe, and don't have to encounter the really hard core criminals. It increases their odds of an easy shift. After all, these are largely union workers.

If they are busy on a drug related call, when that home invasion call, armed robbery, or that "shots fired" call comes in, they don't have to respond, and can "go home safe". And that's what it's all about.

Rousting drug users is like rousting johns, it's easy money. That's not to say that every now and then, they get in the **** with a badass.

flame suit on.

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Old 01-30-2013, 06:41   #159
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Can we add fat people to that list?
Absolutely. Any behavior that is intentionally self-destructive and is an unnecessary drain on the system qualifies in my book. I guess I've just always been a "pay your own way" kind of person.

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Thanks sheriff, you have expressed my view perfectly.
I'm glad! I wish there were more of us!

Glad I could save you the typing.

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Old 01-30-2013, 06:51   #160
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Originally Posted by sheriff733 View Post
Absolutely. Any behavior that is intentionally self-destructive and is an unnecessary drain on the system qualifies in my book. I guess I've just always been a "pay your own way" kind of person.

Well...there goes the 2nd amendment!
...and the 21st.

Actually...let's just throw the whole damn thing out....it's for our own safety. (and, of course, the children).

These photos CLEARLY show human beings in general, and American Citizens in particular, can NOT be trusted to make their own decisions.
It's time we stop this madness.
It's time to conform.
It's time to obey.
Obama...I give myself to you!!
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:57   #161
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Well...there goes the 2nd amendment!
...and the 21st.

Actually...let's just throw the whole damn thing out....it's for our own safety. (and, of course, the children).

These photos CLEARLY show human beings in general, and American Citizens in particular, can NOT be trusted to make their own decisions. It's time we stop this madness. It's time to conform. It's time to obey. Obama...I give myself to you!!
The 2nd amendment causes the same drain on health insurance as meth, cocaine, etc?
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:31   #162
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The 2nd amendment causes the same drain on health insurance as meth, cocaine, etc?
The same? No.
But a strain? Certainly.
So do pointy sticks, Big Macs and butter.

You're the one who said "ANY behavior."
Now...if you wanted to simply make it a list of "any behavior that I personally don't approve of...."
Perhaps you can take over North Korea when Kim dies...
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:58   #163
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Originally Posted by airmotive View Post
The same? No.
But a strain? Certainly.
So do pointy sticks, Big Macs and butter.

You're the one who said "ANY behavior."
Now...if you wanted to simply make it a list of "any behavior that I personally don't approve of...."
Perhaps you can take over North Korea when Kim dies...
Well, after that "ANY behavior" I also added "that is intentionally self destructive."

Drugs, eating yourself to death, alcohol abuse, etc are a far cry from the same ballpark as self defense uses of force and even AD/ND injuries. If you want to use drugs, eat yourself into an early grave, and drink until your liver shrivels up and dies, I fully support that if that's what you want to do. But, I (and I'm not alone. Check this thread, for example.) should not be forced to pay for it. It's not about your "freedom" to kill yourself, but about my freedom to not have to fund it.

Since you support the citizens of the USA supporting the poor and illegal habits and behavior of drug/alcohol/cheeseburger abusers in this country, sounds like Obama is YOUR man. Not mine.

So, you're argument is flawed. Oh, and with all the juvenile attempts to paint me as some dictator or freedom hating, Obama loving cop, go **** yourself.

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Old 01-30-2013, 09:25   #164
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Well, after that "ANY behavior" I also added "that is intentionally self destructive."

Drugs, eating yourself to death, alcohol abuse, etc are a far cry from the same ballpark as self defense uses of force and even AD/ND injuries. If you want to use drugs, eat yourself into an early grave, and drink until your liver shrivels up and dies, I fully support that if that's what you want to do. But, I (and I'm not alone. Check this thread, for example.) should not be forced to pay for it. It's not about your "freedom" to kill yourself, but about my freedom to not have to fund it.

Since you support the citizens of the USA supporting the poor and illegal habits and behavior of drug/alcohol/cheeseburger abusers in this country, sounds like Obama is YOUR man. Not mine.

So, you're argument is flawed. Oh, and with all the juvenile attempts to paint me as some dictator or freedom hating, Obama loving cop, go **** yourself.

Why do we focus on the behavior of certain people? They are not the problem the social safety net run by the Fed Government is the problem.

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Old 01-30-2013, 09:29   #165
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Why do we focus on the behavior of certain people? They are not the problem the social safety net run by the Fed Government is the problem.

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Absolutely.

Unfortunately, America doesn't want the safety net to go anywhere anytime soon. They proved that in November.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:58   #166
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These photos CLEARLY show human beings in general, and American Citizens in particular, can NOT be trusted to make their own decisions.
It's time we stop this madness.
It's time to conform.
It's time to obey.
Obama...I give myself to you!!
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:01   #167
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Somebody 'splain it to me. I mean, we are living in the age of information, right? The word is out there what this stuff will do to you. I have tried to understand it but I just can't. Everybody knows how bad meth is and what happens to those who use it so WHY in God's green earth would anyone be tempted to use it?!?! I can't imagine needing to escape reality that badly when it makes the return so hopeless.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:13   #168
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Meth is to addicts
as
Guns are to criminals.

Any drug is not, by and of itself, bad.
Just like a gun.
Any drug can, like a gun, be a tool, a recreation, or even a life saver, or life-taker. Both can be used to kill yourself. That does not make the gun evil...or the drug.

Some drugs/guns are more useful than others.
Some guns/drugs have very little use other than recreation.
Some guns/drugs have very little use other than being destructive.
Some guns/drugs have some very powerful stigmas attached to them.
Some guns/drugs are VERY misunderstood by the general, non-gun/drug using population.

I can go on and on.

~Airmotive,
Gun owner/non-drug user....by choice, not law.
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Old 01-30-2013, 13:18   #169
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Somebody 'splain it to me. I mean, we are living in the age of information, right? The word is out there what this stuff will do to you. I have tried to understand it but I just can't. Everybody knows how bad meth is and what happens to those who use it so WHY in God's green earth would anyone be tempted to use it?!?! I can't imagine needing to escape reality that badly when it makes the return so hopeless.
Because people in general think they can control it/ themselves. Lot of good advice on life is given out but some have to experience it to really grasp it.

One can explain how powerful addiction can be but some cannot relate unless they have been there. Same as a soldier can explain a combat situation but unless one has been there they just can't grasp the fear or horror on the same level.
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Old 01-30-2013, 16:47   #170
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If you follow the rabbit hole, most certainly they do. They have a financial incentive for it to continue. Fewer laws, fewer arrests, less funding, fewer cops, less overtime.
Sorry, but this is just silly to me. First, you're assuming there's no cause & effect relationship between engaging in drug use and other criminal activities. Secondly, you assert that more laws result in more work...then cite the point below as an argument against my points (which is not a good one). I think we'll agree to disagree on the issue of drug legalization.

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Your last point contradicts wpbteck's point above
No, it doesn't. It only contradicts if you believe the above-noted relationship doesn't exist.
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Old 01-30-2013, 16:51   #171
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Grants, DARE, taxes, policing for profit, prisons as the largest employer in many small towns

Same as ATFE agents benefitting from gun laws, IRS agents benefitting from tax code complexity

Attorneys benefitting

Lots of people feed at the legislative trough
Government inefficiency and corruption is a different topic...and exists in all levels of gov't. So what? Let's get rid of all laws...heck, let's just tear up that constitution too. Allowing freedom of religion results in all sorts of labor laws. Using your logic, let's just eliminate the laws and all will be well.
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Old 01-30-2013, 16:56   #172
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Heather at age 30...ye gods!
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Old 01-30-2013, 21:08   #173
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Sorry, but this is just silly to me. First, you're assuming there's no cause & effect relationship between engaging in drug use and other criminal activities.
A good portion of the criminal activity is due to the fact that drugs are a black market. Same as the criminal activity associated with prohibition.

Quote:
Secondly, you assert that more laws result in more work...then cite the point below as an argument against my points (which is not a good one). I think we'll agree to disagree on the issue of drug legalization.
Of course they do. If the WOD ended tomorrow, lots of grant money would dry up. Departments across the country would immediately be over staffed and lots of inmates would be released. GT would be flooded with sob stories about LEOs being laid off.

Quote:
No, it doesn't. It only contradicts if you believe the above-noted relationship doesn't exist.
It exists currently because drugs are a black market. The price is elevated and people involved in the trade cannot avail themselves of the judicial system to resolve disputes.

Here is the quote:

Quote:
Not to mention, there are plenty of people who get arrested for offenses that aren't drug related. Enough that my job would remain secure for at least the next century or so.
His job security is based on having sufficient people to arrest. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that he has a financial interest in having large numbers of criminals. The WOD accomplishes that.
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Old 01-30-2013, 21:10   #174
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Government inefficiency and corruption is a different topic...and exists in all levels of gov't. So what? Let's get rid of all laws...heck, let's just tear up that constitution too. Allowing freedom of religion results in all sorts of labor laws. Using your logic, let's just eliminate the laws and all will be well.
I'm not even talking about government inefficiency and corruption. All of the above are legal practices.

As for shredding the Constitution, that's what you do by supporting the federal WOD, not me.

wprebeck above suggested that the logical conclusion to my argument would be for him to be able to get drunk, spin around and fire a gun randomly in my neighborhood. False analogy. He can do all of that out on his own rural property and he's perfectly fine. Same as a drug user using drugs in their own home. They harm no one else.

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Old 01-30-2013, 21:16   #175
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The 2nd amendment causes the same drain on health insurance as meth, cocaine, etc?
The cost of alcohol abuse was estimated by the CDC to be $185B in 1998. If economic drain is the justification for banning substances and jailing offenders, start there.

http://www.cdc.gov/workplacehealthpr...nce-abuse.html
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