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Old 02-02-2013, 21:29   #251
.264 magnum
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Originally Posted by BicycleDay43 View Post
The argument isn't about whether meth is life altering or not. I was simply trying to show the small, yet significant similarities between crystal and a few FDA controlled narcotics.

Black tar was my downfall for a while as well, brother. I'm genuinly happy to hear you got away from it.

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I'm glad you cleaned up too.

I misunderstood your point. I thought you were claiming significant equivalency between crystal, some script meds and booze. My bad.

Smack is bad news for sure - I quit cold turkey and literally thought I was going to die. I sweated so much I didn't take a good pee for days.

I'm glad you cleaned up too. Likely part of the reason I'm so anti-hard drugs is because I nearly killed myself doing them so maybe I'm just too wound up about the topic.
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Old 02-02-2013, 22:37   #252
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You would if you had seen people do the things to get adderall and methamphetamine I have seen them do.
Adderall (D-amphetamine) is safe if used as prescribed, which is generally not more than 40 mg per day for problems such as ADHD and up to 60 mg per day for narcolepsy. The dosages are broken up from daily to 3 times daily. This is no different from opioid analgesics such as morphine, Vicodin, oxycodone, etc. All these drugs have abuse potential, which is why they are tightly controlled. Even cocaine sees use in the medical field as a local anesthetic.

What you are talking about are people who obtain Adderall illegally, and take as much as 200 mg at a time to get high. It's no different than somebody who abuses opioids. Legal Adderall prescriptions are limited to zero refills, and the number of pills corresponds to the daily dosage for 30 days. So, if your prescription calls for a 10 mg pill 3 times a day. you get 90 pills in the bottle. To get more, you make another appointment with you doc just before you run out. So as you can imagine, if you are trying to abuse your legally obtained Adderall by taking 200 mg at a time, that's 20 10mg pills. If you have 90 (which is the highest number of pills), you're going to go through it in less than a week. The highest dosage available is 30 mg pill as far as I know.

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Old 02-03-2013, 03:53   #253
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Yup.

Makes it easier to sleep bc my life is orderly and I don't have random thoughts swirling in my brain

As wonderful as adderall is for you it's terrible for me but Ritalin and d-amphetamine are like tuning a radio for me
I tried Vyvance but it put me to sleep faster then Benadryl lol.

I take a 30xr in the am , another at around 2-3 , and break the regular Adderall 30mg in half and take one at 5 one at 8 and I'm sleeping by 10:30
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:56   #254
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Adderall (D-amphetamine) is safe if used as prescribed, .
I don't think use as prescribed is what we are talking about here.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:03   #255
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I tried Vyvance but it put me to sleep faster then Benadryl lol.

I take a 30xr in the am , another at around 2-3 , and break the regular Adderall 30mg in half and take one at 5 one at 8 and I'm sleeping by 10:30
Adderall did that to me. Put me to sleep sitting at my desk. Strange. I suspect its the L-amphetamine in adderall that doesn't agree with me.

What is stranger is it would cause deep focus but nothing would get absorbed. Meaning it was like I could stare at a book but couldn't tell you what I just read.

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Old 02-03-2013, 10:43   #256
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I don't think use as prescribed is what we are talking about here.
Some people think that taking adderall is the same as taking methamphetamine. I was just pointing out that Adderall is perfectly safe as long as you take it as prescribed.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:08   #257
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Some people think that taking adderall is the same as taking methamphetamine. I was just pointing out that Adderall is perfectly safe as long as you take it as prescribed.
Sput - why would stimulants put people to sleep?
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:22   #258
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Sput - why would stimulants put people to sleep?
I honestly don't know the answer to that. One of the most common side effects of Adderall is insomnia. In fact, the mechanism of action of Adderall is the release of norepinephrine (very similar to adrenalin) from your nerve termnials. This is really the first time I am hearing of people actually falling asleep on Adderall, but I'm curious to find out why it causes some people to sleep. I will try to follow up on it.
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Old 02-03-2013, 14:12   #259
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Originally Posted by .264 magnum View Post
I'm glad you cleaned up too.

I misunderstood your point. I thought you were claiming significant equivalency between crystal, some script meds and booze. My bad.

Smack is bad news for sure - I quit cold turkey and literally thought I was going to die. I sweated so much I didn't take a good pee for days.

I'm glad you cleaned up too. Likely part of the reason I'm so anti-hard drugs is because I nearly killed myself doing them so maybe I'm just too wound up about the topic.
Its certainly an understandable thing to be wound up about. Its really hard to think of any man made narcotics that have much positive energy to add to this planet, except for LSD of course. If I just stick with the Herb, life tends to run pretty smoothly for me.

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Old 02-04-2013, 08:16   #260
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Some people think that taking adderall is the same as taking methamphetamine. I was just pointing out that Adderall is perfectly safe as long as you take it as prescribed.
"As prescribed" being the operative phrase.
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Old 02-04-2013, 18:38   #261
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"As prescribed" being the operative phrase.
Right, and if you read my post, it is impossible to abuse the prescribed medication for long, unless you obtain extra pills by other means. You can't prescribe refills, and the amount of pills is determined by the dosage and how many times per day for 30 days. So, if you are prescribed 10 mg 3 times per day, you can only get 90 10-mg pills at a time. And you must go to your doctor for a new prescription every month. If you consider that it takes something like 100 to 200 mg to get high every time, your bottle of 90 pills (which is the max number of pills you can get), will only last you a week.

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Old 02-04-2013, 19:07   #262
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Right, and if you read my post, it is impossible to abuse the prescribed medication for long, unless you obtain extra pills by other means. You can't prescribe refills, and the amount of pills is determined by the dosage and how many times per day for 30 days. So, if you are prescribed 10 mg 3 times per day, you can only get 90 10-mg pills at a time. And you must go to your doctor for a new prescription every month. If you consider that it takes something like 100 to 200 mg to get high every time, your bottle of 90 pills (which is the max number of pills you can get), will only last you a week.
My doc has a policy that anyone prescribed a controlled substance agree to a drug test 6x yearly. I presume it is to be certain you are swallowing the medication and not selling it.
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Old 02-04-2013, 19:47   #263
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My doc has a policy that anyone prescribed a controlled substance agree to a drug test 6x yearly. I presume it is to be certain you are swallowing the medication and not selling it.
Yes. A lot of docs do that, especially with opioids, for the very reason you stated. But also, the government is really coming down hard on docs, especially for painkillers. It has gotten to the point that many family docs will not prescribe opioid pain killers to their new patients. They tend to send them to pain specialists. Literally, a doc can potentially get in trouble for prescribing painkillers in a manner that is consistent with protocol. In the end, they would likely win any case that comes out of it as long as they properly documented everything, but many docs don't want to deal with the hassle and expense.
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Old 02-04-2013, 19:48   #264
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It should also be noted that controlled drugs are safe as long as they are prescribed in a safe manner and used as directed. Taking Adderall by your doctor's orders will not lead you to abuse the drug. I have a feeling that a lot of people don't truly grasp that concept. Any drug with an addiction potential that is so high that it can't be prescribed in a safe manner, is a schedule 1 drug that is illegal to prescribe under federal law. State law seems to differ on some drugs.

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Old 02-04-2013, 19:56   #265
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The good news is it's always easy to spot a meth head...

Where I grew up there were a couple meth labs busted nearby (within about a 5 mile radius); you learn to recognize the lab smell.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:57   #266
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Right, and if you read my post, it is impossible to abuse the prescribed medication for long without ill effects, when you obtain extra pills by other means. It takes doctor shopping and multiple doctors to prescribe refills, and the amount of pills is determined by how many different doctors and pharmacies you are willing to go to in 30 days. So, if you are prescribed 100 mg 3 times per day, you can only get 900 10-mg pills at a time. And you must go to your doctors for new prescriptions every month. If you consider that it takes something like 100 to 200 mg to get high every time, your bottles of 900 pills (which is not even the max number of pills you can get), you will get higher than the proverbial kite.
Changed your post to reflect real life.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:02   #267
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My doc has a policy that anyone prescribed a controlled substance agree to a drug test 6x yearly. I presume it is to be certain you are swallowing the medication and not selling it.
Which doesn't help a bit if you are doctor shopping, taking some of the pills, and selling the rest to finance the scheme (the A-1 controlled medication abuse scenario).

We actually get printouts of who is doctor shopping every month. But, the list is so large, there is really no time to work anyone except the people doing it in unbelievably huge numbers.
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Old 02-05-2013, 14:01   #268
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Old 02-05-2013, 15:53   #269
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Because as an adult, you own the rights to your body. Therefore, you may CHOOSE what or what not to put into it.

Quit babysitting grown adults...thats not the governments job, nor is it anyone elses.
The argument isn't one to be made on individual rights and how that pertains to their bodies. That is a fundamental idealistic view that I agree with, but it doesn't win a lot of people over.

The real argument can be made about how spending money on locking up drug users in prisons does nothing to solve the problem. If anything it puts them further into a hole that they will never recover from. It is a waste of money to incarcerate them, it does nothing but place further burden on tax payers. If they don't go to prison, more of them would end up in treatment. They go to treatment and they have a chance at turning their lives around.
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Old 02-05-2013, 20:44   #270
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Which doesn't help a bit if you are doctor shopping, taking some of the pills, and selling the rest to finance the scheme (the A-1 controlled medication abuse scenario).

We actually get printouts of who is doctor shopping every month. But, the list is so large, there is really no time to work anyone except the people doing it in unbelievably huge numbers.
I have no doubt.

Anyway, with a list that large it kinda begs the question: what's the point?

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Old 02-06-2013, 12:55   #271
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I have no doubt.

Anyway, with a list that large it kinda begs the question: what's the point?
It's a good tool to calculate somebody's sentence when they do get popped for selling pills and throw out the usual (you guys caught me the very first time I did this).

Also, you can do searches for the worst violators, doctors and patients, and it makes it pretty evident where the problems are. For example, it gets used when deciding which pill mills are the worst and need to be shut down (you can also tie their customers into the OD data at the coroner to see whose patients are dying at the highest rate).
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:16   #272
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Changed your post to reflect real life.
In real life, pharmacies use tracking systems that flag your name if there is suspicious activity. Doctors run you through the system if you are a new patient (or if they are suspicious) before prescribing controlled substances. I have personally witnessed quite a few drug seekers get denied by the docs I've rotated with based on that system. I've also heard of docs getting shut down because they were writing for pills. I'm not saying that what you are describing doesn't happen, but it is not as likely to be successful as you imply. When electronic medical records are fully instituted in the next year or so, it will be even easier for doctors to identify drug seekers.

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Old 02-06-2013, 21:20   #273
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It's a good tool to calculate somebody's sentence when they do get popped for selling pills and throw out the usual (you guys caught me the very first time I did this).

Also, you can do searches for the worst violators, doctors and patients, and it makes it pretty evident where the problems are. For example, it gets used when deciding which pill mills are the worst and need to be shut down (you can also tie their customers into the OD data at the coroner to see whose patients are dying at the highest rate).
I wonder why the pills are so valuable reselling them on the street?

If a script of Vicodin costs $20 at CVS why does it cost $5 or $10 per tab on the street? Can't help but wonder if the profit motive invites more people into that business.


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Old 02-07-2013, 08:44   #274
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I wonder why the pills are so valuable reselling them on the street?

If a script of Vicodin costs $20 at CVS why does it cost $5 or $10 per tab on the street? Can't help but wonder if the profit motive invites more people into that business.


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For some of the reasons stated by one of the posters above. Legitimate doctors and pharmacies, will make an effort to screen out doctor/pharmacy shoppers. But, the idea that there is a database in every state that makes people trying to do this easy to find is simply not correct.

And, this isn't even taking into account the "pill mills" that wouldn't do that kind of search, even if they could.

The other thing a lot of pillheads don't get, is how many of the pills they buy on the street, that they think are manufactured by the same people as the ones in the pharmacies, are in fact, manufactured illegaly as generics, but with real pharmacy markings on them, in Mexico and other places. Some are almost as good (and safe) as the real thing, and some are scary bad.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:06   #275
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For some of the reasons stated by one of the posters above. Legitimate doctors and pharmacies, will make an effort to screen out doctor/pharmacy shoppers. But, the idea that there is a database in every state that makes people trying to do this easy to find is simply not correct.

And, this isn't even taking into account the "pill mills" that wouldn't do that kind of search, even if they could.

The other thing a lot of pillheads don't get, is how many of the pills they buy on the street, that they think are manufactured by the same people as the ones in the pharmacies, are in fact, manufactured illegaly as generics, but with real pharmacy markings on them, in Mexico and other places. Some are almost as good (and safe) as the real thing, and some are scary bad.
That actually happens with name brand pharma too. Counterfeit pharma is big business


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