[Restless28]

Originally Posted by SFCSMITH(RET)

Apparently I was completely wrong about the thread being dead.

It was murdered. Preppared for burial. Then the perps drug it back outside and started abusing the corpse.

LOOK, take it to PM's.

Or just agree you have different plans and ideas, and LET IT FREAKING GO.

At least TRY to not look/sound like a 12y.o. typing from your moms basement and mad because Twinkies are off the shelves.

Frankly, there are a couple of members who have shown their true character here. They have no interest in helping or offering constructive advice. They simply want to be jerks behind the keyboards and are dragging the sub forum down.

[Tom Kanik]

I would like to see the Mods lock this thread!

[LongGun1]

Originally Posted by SFCSMITH(RET)

Apparently I was completely wrong about the thread being dead.

It was murdered. Preppared for burial. Then the perps drug it back outside and started abusing the corpse.

LOOK, take it to PM's.

Or just agree you have different plans and ideas, and LET IT FREAKING GO.

At least TRY to not look/sound like a 12y.o. typing from your moms basement and mad because Twinkies are off the shelves.

This!

[LongGun1]

Originally Posted by Tom Kanik

I would like to see the Mods lock this thread!

That would be a good start...

..but since this thread was such an ill conceived, stinking pile of troll bait...

..I say we take off and nuke the entire thread from orbit.




It is the only way to be sure!

[kirgi08]

[concretefuzzynuts]

It has been moderately entertaining though. Or should I say moderate-less-ly.

[Tom Kanik]

Originally Posted by LongGun1

That would be a good start...

..but since this thread was such an ill conceived, stinking pile of troll bait...

..I say we take off and nuke the entire thread from orbit.




It is the only way to be sure!

Works for me!

[Kozel]

Originally Posted by AK_Stick

Also ironic a has been russian would try to tell a bunch of people in America how a disaster/emergency would go down. Even though he's the most inexperienced member in his location.

20+ years ago I walked off the plane with nothing but a suitcase to my name. I spoke almost no English. Knew nobody who could help me.

I got to middle class Working Joe level, paying taxes and mortgage, speaking several sentences before I see a blink of an eye and question “Where are ya from”.

I know this society from the bottom up more then you can ever imagine. You grew up like a spoiled baby. Who bought you your first car? Your mother? I bought my mother’s first car, and my sister’s, and my brother’s.

I killed myself to become part of this society, adopt, assimilate, naturalize, become productive member…. All that. Now I see it going down the same drain of history as the old USSR did and it hurts me to no end but there is nothing I can do about it.


.

[kirgi08]

Originally Posted by Kozel

20+ years ago I walked off the plane with nothing but a suitcase to my name. I spoke almost no English. Knew nobody who could help me.

I got to middle class Working Joe level, paying taxes and mortgage, speaking several sentences before I see a blink in the eye and question “Where are ya from”.

I know this society from bottom up more then you can ever imagine. You grew up like a spoiled baby. Who bought you your first car? Your mother? I bought my mother’s first car, and my sister’s, and my brother’s.

I killed myself to become part of this society, adopt, assimilate, naturalize, become productive member…. All that. Now I see it going down the same drain of history as the old USSR did and it hurts me to no end but there is nothing I can do about it.


.

A wee bit of a broad brush there.My folks gave me life the rest was up ta me.Car/Education all came from my sweat,not there money.We've all had it tough,your no different than anyone.'08.

[quake]

Originally Posted by Kozel

...I know this society from bottom up more then you can ever imagine. You grew up like a spoiled baby. Who bought you your first car? Your mother? I bought my mother’s first car, and my sister’s, and my brother’s.

As kirgi08 said, that's definitely painting with a broad brush and also "a whole lot of a assuming going on". I bought my first car - a 1969 dodge dart - with money I got from selling one of my own cows. A cow I bought as a calf, with my own money. I bought my first black-powder revolvers and my first cartridge handgun (a ruger 'standard' model; the precursor of the MK-2 series) similarly in the 70's; with money that I'd made, not been given.

Originally Posted by Kozel

...I killed myself to become part of this society, adopt, assimilate, naturalize, become productive member…. All that. Now I see it going down the same drain of history as the old USSR did and it hurts me to no end but there is nothing I can do about it.

This I get completely. It's a fairly common situation nowadays; people who immigrated here and worked their way up, having to now watch the ground being dug out from under them. Trust me, it's no less disheartening and enraging for those of us who were born here and worked their way up only to now see the same thing.

Thing to keep in mind is that, while a lot - maybe a majority - of americans are lazy parasites now, not all of us are. Some of us are the ones that are being bled by politicians to placate that parasitic voting bloc. My dad was a kentucky hillbilly child that only went to the sixth grade, fought in WW2, and then came back & worked in a detroit factory for decades; driving more than an hour each way to work every day so we kids (I'm one of six children) wouldn't have to spend every day in that miserable city. We used to go with him sometimes and sell bags of still-in-the-husk sweet corn out of the back of the pickup truck to the guys during shift change at the factory. He had very little education and took zero charity, and managed to work his way up to owning a paid-off farm. Then while I was in the service, my mom and he divorced & sold the farm. So when I got home from the army 31 years ago, there was literally no 'home' to come home to. No family farm to run, no inheritance, not even any of my personal stuff. My sister or my mom (neither would admit to it) had wrecked my car. My clothes, my guns, my tools, even my porn stash - all gone with nobody willing to tell me what had happened to anything I'd previously owned. I had literally just the clothes on my back and what little money I'd saved while in the service. And like most young single guys in the service, 'saving' wasn't my highest priority, so that wasn't much. Now, 30-plus years later, my wife of 27 years and I own our own security company (a small, local one; not one you'd have heard of, but the biggest in our county), and our boys are pretty much grown (one graduates college this spring). And now, when we should be starting to reap the benefits of it all, we see more than 40% of every dollar we make, being taken from us, largely for the purpose of placating the parasitic voting bloc I mentioned earlier. So yes, some of us 'natives' do indeed "get it", every bit as much as a non-native does.

Thing is, while most americans don't "get it", you have to remember that 'most americans' aren't on these type of forums either. My take on things anymore is simple. I love america, but most americans just flat piss me off.

[Stevekozak]

Originally Posted by kirgi08

A wee bit of a broad brush there.My folks gave me life the rest was up ta me.Car/Education all came from my sweat,not there money.We've all had it tough,your no different than anyone.'08.

Same here.

[JohnnyReb]

For some reason I keep picturing Borat.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

[AK_Stick]

Originally Posted by Kozel

I know this society from bottom up more then you can ever imagine. You grew up like a spoiled baby. Who bought you your first car? Your mother? I bought my mother’s first car, and my sister’s, and my brother’s.
.


.

Your mistake, is assuming I'm spoiled, because I grew up in America.

And it's the same common failing in most of your posts in this thread.

You don't know me, you've never met me, and the only information you have about me, is what I've chosen to release. You have no idea the hardships I've faced, or anyone else in this thread/forum.

You try and tell a bunch of people how it is to survive, and seem to to think your the only one who's ever made it.

If survival in an eastern block country is the topic, I'm sure you will be a go to guy for information. But simply because you survived there does not mean you have any frame of reference on survival in say, back woods Alaska.

Conversely, my experience, does not neccisarily apply to Kirgi, or LG1, because we have vastly different circumstances locations and scenarios.

[Aceman]

Wow - epic read. SO much to digest, and consume. Learn from it all gentlemen. I say leave this open.

First of all - the fantasy prepper thing was great (while it lasted) You have to have a sense of humor. Unfortunately, a lot of the fantasy preppers probably don't think they are fantasy preppers.

Kozak is a bit tragic. The guy is angry, and the kind of person who stereotypes at others even as he hates those who stereotype him. Sad. Guy needs to lighten up and live his life. And I agree with those who are telling him he better be careful when painting with a big brush. Most Americans are average. That's reality. But maybe 25% are exceptional. Some exceptionally crap, some exceptionally good. And you never know which are which, and exceptional at what. He gave zero details about what he was through or survived other than when it got tough, he apparently got out of dodge. And then he worked his but off. Sensible, looks that way. Hard worker? Perhaps. Prepped? Who knows. Throw out some real information Kozak, or all I'm hearing is complaining internet whiner hating on America. Tell us something we can use. That's called sharing. All you sound like to me is the kind of people here you hate.

Countrygun vs whoever. Interesting pissing contest about the possibility of living off deer. The fact that it is people having such an argument - and it is mostly Countrygun sounding / feeling superior to me, shows that neither has an open mind to see what's really going on. Hope you are right.

Now - the real interesting debate:

Will flight to the country result in the devastation of game populations?

Assuming we are talking about a MAJOR SHTF - one where it affects the entire nation and all population centers....

A huge chunk of people will die. WIll it be 10%, 50%, 75%, 90%...don't know. But that is a MAJOR issue before we start running any discussion on the subject.

Next - we have to consider that desperation means no rules on game acquisition. So current game/hunters etc data only applies as a best case scenario.

Now, I have been hunting under what i would call good circumstances. I have went out and not came back with a deer more often than not. So let's also consider, it isn't as easy as even hunters think it is. So what is the trade off on baiting trapping etc....vs difficulty of the task. And of course, some of those city folk refugees grew up in the country....

SO - loss of life initially, unrestricted hunting, skill of hunters, and of course the p[opulation itself.

And NO ONE considered this: An asteroid strike or appropriate plague can kill deer too....

I think underestimation of your foe - mother nature, is a point to consider also.

The above with sensible thought could have been a good topic. I'm thinking about it...

And LMAO at all the crap around the good points! Keep writing!!! Nice to see you back Kozak.

[Aceman]

Originally Posted by AK_Stick

Your mistake, is assuming I'm spoiled, because I grew up in America.

And it's the same common failing in most of your posts in this thread.

You don't know me, you've never met me, and the only information you have about me, is what I've chosen to release.

Yeah! I don't necessarily agree with all your stuff, but it's details, not key points. Kozak should definitely noty be including you in his talk.

Kozak has been watching too much Real Housewives.

[kirgi08]

A scenario failed.'08.

[Kozel]

Originally Posted by AK_Stick

Your mistake, is assuming I'm spoiled, because I grew up in America.

.

It means that you are. Most heart breaking stories of hardship in US do not compare to normal existence in the most of the world.

Go ahead and share the hardest things you had to live through so that I can laugh at them compared to mine.



.

[Kozel]

Originally Posted by Aceman

Kozak has been watching too much Real Housewives.

Who is Kozak? What is the Real Housewives?

[countrygun]

Originally Posted by Aceman

Countrygun vs whoever. Interesting pissing contest about the possibility of living off deer. The fact that it is people having such an argument - and it is mostly Countrygun sounding / feeling superior to me, shows that neither has an open mind to see what's really going on. Hope you are right.

Now - the real interesting debate:

Will flight to the country result in the devastation of game populations?

Assuming we are talking about a MAJOR SHTF - one where it affects the entire nation and all population centers....

A huge chunk of people will die. WIll it be 10%, 50%, 75%, 90%...don't know. But that is a MAJOR issue before we start running any discussion on the subject.

Next - we have to consider that desperation means no rules on game acquisition. So current game/hunters etc data only applies as a best case scenario.

Now, I have been hunting under what i would call good circumstances. I have went out and not came back with a deer more often than not. So let's also consider, it isn't as easy as even hunters think it is. So what is the trade off on baiting trapping etc....vs difficulty of the task. And of course, some of those city folk refugees grew up in the country....

SO - loss of life initially, unrestricted hunting, skill of hunters, and of course the p[opulation itself.

And NO ONE considered this: An asteroid strike or appropriate plague can kill deer too....

I think underestimation of your foe - mother nature, is a point to consider also.

The above with sensible thought could have been a good topic. I'm thinking about it...

And LMAO at all the crap around the good points! Keep writing!!! Nice to see you back Kozak.

I think you misunderstand something. Take a look at what I actually did say I'll highlight a couple of things for you.



(post 91)
Yes I am living just mile from the ranch my Dad grew up on with an extended family. They survived on "poached" deer to a great extent, as did their neighbors. There never was a shortage although they would go a little farther into the woods and off the ranch to hunt for a while to let the "on ranch" population closer to home build up. At no time did they go more than a few miles. There was never a shortage and today they are positively a nuisance.


(Post 95)

We would be affected, but feeding families on venison won't be a problem for those who are capable.



Now that is what I ACTUALLY SAID

One of the key points "Ranch" and "Capable"

We are a rural community and many small ranches . It was more than common, if you understand rural economics in tough times for the rancher to, say, slaughter a beef cow. Now without refrigeration unless he has a large family he is probably, like my family did, sell barter or trade the majority of that beef and since every pound had value, Same with the hogs and sheep. The family would likely end up eating the free venison shot on or near the ranch. The beef having been distributed would mean that many fewer people competing for the venison.

Nobody bothered to look at that part of the equation and really "ranch" would have been the clue to those who now a thing about it. But funny thing, none of the experts bothered to even ask "What kind of ranch?" I am so impressed with the attention some people pay before they start their naysaying.

Oh and even your idea of "Flight to the Country" I think that is very overrated. Our society is even more dependent on the Cities than it was during the depression. And exactly where are these "Flee'ers" going to live? In tents, in our climate? hardly likely. Try a winter here in a tent and let me know how it works for you.

"Feeling Superior"? Hardly, this place sucks, it is rather unpleasant place, with a lousy climate clannish population and will never create a surplus of anything, which all makes it very unattractive to those fleeing the city, if any actually do.

I think, especially those who still live in or near cities, "Preppers" today seem to have the idea that thousands of people think like they do. It would be a reversal of history for it to happen, and there are much fewer people in society today that meet that funny word I used "Capable"

But go ahead and assume away. It's the internet and none of the assumers will be a bother to me in the real events that lay ahead.

[kirgi08]

Originally Posted by Kozel

It means that you are. Most heart breaking stories of hardship in US do not compare to normal existence in the most of the world.

Go ahead and share the hardest things you had to live through so that I can laugh at them compared to mine.



.

Most folk look ta the future not dwell on the past.'08.

[Dexters]

Originally Posted by countrygun

I think you misunderstand something. Take a look at what I actually did say I'll highlight a couple of things for you.



(post 91)
Yes I am living just mile from the ranch my Dad grew up on with an extended family. They survived on "poached" deer to a great extent, as did their neighbors. There never was a shortage although they would go a little farther into the woods and off the ranch to hunt for a while to let the "on ranch" population closer to home build up. At no time did they go more than a few miles. There was never a shortage and today they are positively a nuisance.


(Post 95)

We would be affected, but feeding families on venison won't be a problem for those who are capable.



Now that is what I ACTUALLY SAID

One of the key points "Ranch" and "Capable"

We are a rural community and many small ranches . It was more than common, if you understand rural economics in tough times for the rancher to, say, slaughter a beef cow. Now without refrigeration unless he has a large family he is probably, like my family did, sell barter or trade the majority of that beef and since every pound had value, Same with the hogs and sheep. The family would likely end up eating the free venison shot on or near the ranch. The beef having been distributed would mean that many fewer people competing for the venison.

Nobody bothered to look at that part of the equation and really "ranch" would have been the clue to those who now a thing about it. But funny thing, none of the experts bothered to even ask "What kind of ranch?" I am so impressed with the attention some people pay before they start their naysaying.

Oh and even your idea of "Flight to the Country" I think that is very overrated. Our society is even more dependent on the Cities than it was during the depression. And exactly where are these "Flee'ers" going to live? In tents, in our climate? hardly likely. Try a winter here in a tent and let me know how it works for you.

"Feeling Superior"? Hardly, this place sucks, it is rather unpleasant place, with a lousy climate clannish population and will never create a surplus of anything, which all makes it very unattractive to those fleeing the city, if any actually do.

I think, especially those who still live in or near cities, "Preppers" today seem to have the idea that thousands of people think like they do. It would be a reversal of history for it to happen, and there are much fewer people in society today that meet that funny word I used "Capable"

But go ahead and assume away. It's the internet and none of the assumers will be a bother to me in the real events that lay ahead.

This is the part you don't get. We don't need to know a great deal about where you live. We know about human nature.

You don't understand people (add that to your list). And you definitely don't understand desperate people and you don't understand starving people (ask Kozel - he might tell you what they will do) and you don't understand fantasy preppers. They don't ask themselves am I capable or any of the other things you raise. If you and your family were starving to death; you might sit at home and do nothing but most other people would do whatever they could to feed their family.

You fail as a prepper in that you think 'other' people aren't capable - you underestimate other people.

You don't recognize this is all part of your fantasy.

Originally Posted by PaulMason

What Fantasy preppers think:

They will live off the land (I'm not talking about farming) - They will take their gun go into the woods to hunt, trap, and fish for food. Of course in this fantasy no one else thinks of this, so game is plentiful. Also, none of the bad guys or unsafe hunters go do this so a person is safer in the woods then at home. Somehow this fantasy prepper will get (drive?) to the woods, hunt and then carry out what they kill back home. Of course the weather is great - no cold or rain to deal with.

You are more likely to be killed by a bullet then a bacteria/virus or fire. In this fantasy, everyone stays healthy, no one does anything stupid, like not washing their hand after using the toilet or contaminating food by not washing utensils or cutting themselves and getting an infection.

CountryGun - I'm hurting today from that hike - 17.6 miles rt. Towards the end I had to use my headlamp to find the trail. A long day.

[UneasyRider]

Holy Col. Bat Guano Batman! This thread is an all out brawl! General Ripper would be proud!

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit! Best quote of thread...

Let the metal fly boys!

[nikerret]

Originally Posted by Aceman

And NO ONE considered this: An asteroid strike or appropriate plague can kill deer too....

I think underestimation of your foe - mother nature, is a point to consider also.

Originally Posted by nikerret

As long as the ecosystem isn't adversely effected (such as a disease that kills a large percentage of humans and wildlife, seasons stay somewhat normal), I don't think aimals will be hunted to extinction.

There ya go. Back on Page 4, I believe. An asteroid strike would definitely count as effecting the ecosystem.

[kirgi08]

quid pro quo UE.'08.

[countrygun]

OK, How many of our "experts" around here have even mentioned their community? How many here have mentioned that they know their neighbors and have talked to them at all? How many know that they have a dairy and a cheese making operation down the road or a produce farmer down the road in the other direction? Where is your nearest poultry farm?. Do you have coffee with the owners? do you know them on a first name basis?. Have you ever sat down and had coffee with the County Sheriff and discussed the emergency plans for the community? Do you have skills or bring something to the table?

Do you think that a community where people do things like that, and are aware of the situation is just going to throw its arms open and welcome refugees from the city? What really are your plans? what do you intend to DO and where do you intend to do it? Do you have your AR and AK ready with ammo? Well if you do and you don't have some kind of community cohesion Mr. Rambo you aren't going to make it long on your own if time comes you need to use it. You think you are prepared for looters at your underground bunker? well think how a whole established rural community is going to look at outsiders from the city---as looters is how.

Come on show me where one other person in this thread has talked about their own community. All I hear is "Me,,,I,,,Me,,,I."


It all sounds like an "Omega Man" (See the original movie) inspired fantasy.

Raise your hands, oh great judge and jury if you live in a rural community, know your neighbors, have arable land, have a garden, have hunted, killed and skinned game, have a useful skill that doesn't require a computer or electricity, have a water source, don't depend of a public sewer system, have two Doctors living on your country road. tell me about your barter plans, what do you have to offer?

Tell me just how, if you can't raise your hand, you can be so sure you are in a position to tell me about it. Tell me how, during the great depression people fled the cities so there is an historical precedent, oh wait, you can't because people fled TO the cities because that is where the programs and few jobs were. Tell me how our society has bred more independent people than we had in 1929, oh wait, I don't think you can do that either. Certainly I can see why people like that are just going to be welcome in rural America.

The old analogy of the frog in the pan of water is even more apt today than ever before.

Despite what you may think about my motives, or my ego, the fact is I can take no great pride in my situation, most of it is simply because of pure dumb luck and the fact that my family goes back several generations here. Obviously none of that was my doing. Hell, most of the time this isn't a really great place to live if the truth were told. It was simply a hand I was dealt, I just chose to play it out by buying a place here that had some benefits to it. I wish I could say that "I searched the Country and decided this was the best place" but if I had searched I sure the hell wouldn't have chosen here, although some people did search and did end up here deliberately. I did not come to this forum to do anything but share a bit about what life is like here and how it is in this corner of the Country and to learn from others about how it is in their area and how they have made their plans and what they are doing and maybe exchange tips and techniques.

A pity I ran afoul of the self-appointed judges with so much more experience than I in the ways of self-sufficiency and so omnipotent and omniscient that they can condemn me to failure from a continent away.

Well I hope your crystal balls work better for you than you foresee, the reality I have lived for years, working for me.