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Old 02-04-2013, 08:12   #141
Stevekozak
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Does anyone remember when at least half of the posters on this forum were mature men and not name calling juveniles? Me, I miss those days.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:23   #142
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Come on say something useful. Show where I am wrong and show that you know something about the subject.

You are just a little twit playing playground games.

Dry up and blow away like the cow patty you are.
You're a dog that don't hunt. And you don't know how to fish; no one is biting what's on your hook.

What's your plan when someone pulls a gun on you? Question them to death or talk them to death with all you know about country living.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:40   #143
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At least you are somewhat brighter that ""Dexters" I'll give you credit for that.

The Siskiyou National Forest is at its closest about 300 miles from Portland which is the closest large city.
And you can't read a map - look at where San Fran and Sacramento are.

See what happens when you actually say something? You get it wrong.

Do you even know how many deer there are in the Siskiyou National Forest?

Keep on squirming.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:40   #144
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That's quite simple,don't put yourself in that situation.Or have a over watch in place,everyones AO and plan/s are different.We plan on ghosting when the balloon goes up,knowing when ta GOOD is vital.'08.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:36   #145
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And you can't read a map - look at where San Fran and Sacramento are.

See what happens when you actually say something? You get it wrong.

Do you even know how many deer there are in the Siskiyou National Forest?

Keep on squirming.
You are the one squirming quite frankly.

You had to ride on someone else's intellectual coat tails to figure out where I am. You aren't very impressive.

Your whole scenario is based upon a fantasy model of thousands of people streaming out of the cities to play "Batman of the Boondocks" That scenario dates back to the days of Mel Tappan in the late 70's. Coincidentally, Mr. Tappan located himself, guess where? On the eastern edge of the Siskiyou National Forest in "Rogue River, Oregon".
And BTW if you have ever heard of "Backwoods Home" magazine (Mas Ayoob writes for them) You might wonder why Dave Duffy moved the entire operation to the nearby town and took up residence here

Even Tappan missed the point of the historical lesson, but his predictions became a "taken for fact" projection in the minds of "survivalists" then and "preppers" now. Look at the years following 1929. People did not flock to the country in droves. quite actually the opposite occurred, those from rural areas move TO the cities seeking employment and to stand in soup lines. To think that the cities will empty is the height of over-aggrandizement of your own plans. Do you really think human nature has changed so much in 85 years (perhaps because of your divine birth) that the natural polls have reversed and people are suddenly going to do the opposite of what they have done in the past?

Do you really think that all those masses in the big cities who voted for Obama are going to suddenly give up the idea that Government can save them? They are going to chuck their beliefs and move to "Green Acres"? Every one of your ideas is a projection of that fantasy.

It must be tempting to think that you are part of a group of hundreds of thousands of people who will flee, there is comfort in numbers, and that is exactly why people will stay right where they are. I hate to break it to you, but they made the entertainment series "Doomsday Preppers" because such folks (maybe like all of us in this thread) are a curious, small, anomalous group in society. People are entertained by it, like they find the Amish based shows amusing, doesn't mean that everybody that watches is going to become Amish.

There wasn't a rush to the country in the thirties, there wasn't a rush to country in the eighteen nineties during that depression either.

There is actually no basis for your fantasy of a flood to the country. the reality of the nature of the masses and history does not support it, no matter how much you dream it. To project that all of California is going to head to the woods s some of you clowns have, is just another little-boy in the schoolyard "But what if ..." hypothetical to keep you fantasy fueled.
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Old 02-04-2013, 13:58   #146
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Disagree,there was a rush ta the country.Them there "rushers" were them there that knew how ta live by their wits and skill.'08.
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Old 02-04-2013, 14:11   #147
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Disagree,there was a rush ta the country.Them there "rushers" were them there that knew how ta live by their wits and skill.'08.
Ever hear of "The Grapes of Wrath"? Were they moving from California to Oklahoma?
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Old 02-04-2013, 14:16   #148
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At least you are somewhat brighter that ""Dexters" I'll give you credit for that.

The Siskiyou National Forest is at its closest about 300 miles from Portland which is the closest large city. The native populations of the Counties surrounding it total 195,600. Now given that there is all of the rest of the States of California and Oregon, it is doubtful that the entire populations of those States are going to head to this corner of the world. Or would you be that stupid? We are but one corner of a lot of territory, we happen to be pretty remote with one laughable two-lane road called a highway on one side and 1-5 on the other and a mountain range in between.

"Estimated populations" mean squat. I have personally seen wildlife surveys become "adjusted" to meet desired out comes.

Sorry but I am actually HERE not reading about it and hanging my hat on geusstimations.

Like I said, you are a little brighter than Dexters, a little at least. Now sit there in your overpopulated States and worry about the problems you will have.
I know that estimated deer populations can be off, but let's be serious, there are likely fewer deer than people, especially if you include the entire Rogue River-Siskiyou National Forest and not just your half.

I included the deer population of California originally, but most of your forest is actually located in Oregon. The entire state has an estimated deer population of around 300,000. Unless you can demonstrate that you are better qualified to provide an estimate, I'll stick with that. The human population of the Rogue-River-Siskiyou National Forest is nearly 700,000. So people don't have to come from far and wide in order to deplete the deer population to the point where it would at least be difficult to find them - after all, you're talking about 1.7M acres total. That's a lot of area, although not the largest national forest in Oregon by a wide margin.

And your forest is just one of many National Forests in Oregon, all with their own deer populations. So even if the actual deer population were double or triple the estimates, there still wouldn't be enough deer to keep many people in venison for any extended period of time.

And, actually, Portland is the furthest large city. Eugene, Salem, and especially Medford are all closer. They are the second, third, and fourth largest cities in the state, respectively. True, they aren't nearly as big as Portland, but they're not exactly villages. But you're correct that you probably wouldn't get much traffic from any of those cities, except maybe Medford, because there are other national forests closer to all three of the other cities.

Look, I've got no dog in this fight. Figuring out where you're located was just a way to relieve the boredom. I'm just using figures that unless you can prove otherwise, I've got to assume are at least reasonably close to correct. I hope the figures are totally wrong and there are several million deer for you to hunt and that you live a wonderful life eating venison all the day long in the wake of any SHTF situation.
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Old 02-04-2013, 15:53   #149
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I'll chime in but don't really want to get into a debate. I just have an observation.

I've lived in the Pacific Northwest. I've been to the major cities in Northern California, Oregon and Washington. Most of the city population are weak and the males are mostly metro-sexual and won't survive this hypothetical SHTF. They don't have a clue how to hunt much less dress their kill. I'm not including the country people, I'm referring to the city dwellers.

So there would be plenty of deer and rabbit and squirrel and fish and shell fish and.....



Ok, start call ing me names now.
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Old 02-04-2013, 16:15   #150
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I know that estimated deer populations can be off, but let's be serious, there are likely fewer deer than people, especially if you include the entire Rogue River-Siskiyou National Forest and not just your half.

I included the deer population of California originally, but most of your forest is actually located in Oregon. The entire state has an estimated deer population of around 300,000. Unless you can demonstrate that you are better qualified to provide an estimate, I'll stick with that. The human population of the Rogue-River-Siskiyou National Forest is nearly 700,000. So people don't have to come from far and wide in order to deplete the deer population to the point where it would at least be difficult to find them - after all, you're talking about 1.7M acres total. That's a lot of area, although not the largest national forest in Oregon by a wide margin.

And your forest is just one of many National Forests in Oregon, all with their own deer populations. So even if the actual deer population were double or triple the estimates, there still wouldn't be enough deer to keep many people in venison for any extended period of time.

And, actually, Portland is the furthest large city. Eugene, Salem, and especially Medford are all closer. They are the second, third, and fourth largest cities in the state, respectively. True, they aren't nearly as big as Portland, but they're not exactly villages. But you're correct that you probably wouldn't get much traffic from any of those cities, except maybe Medford, because there are other national forests closer to all three of the other cities.

Look, I've got no dog in this fight. Figuring out where you're located was just a way to relieve the boredom. I'm just using figures that unless you can prove otherwise, I've got to assume are at least reasonably close to correct. I hope the figures are totally wrong and there are several million deer for you to hunt and that you live a wonderful life eating venison all the day long in the wake of any SHTF situation.
You had better look at he population of Coos, Curry Josephine and Del Norte Counties again. They encapsulate the Siskiyou National Forest. Did your expert evaluation also include that huge sections of it are inaccessible? Did it happen to mention that those on the Josephine County side are almost completely unable to access much of it due to the geography? Did you look at that photo, which is just one tiny sliver of the huge forest? How do you figure the experts got out there and counted deer noses.

If we are having such an effect as it is, then why can I get two and sometimes three bear tags a year? If you know much of anything about animal populations you would know that deer far outnumber bear. We only get one deer tag a year to keep us in line with the State standard, but oddly enough they only station one ODF&W officer in this County. I don't think they are worried that folks around here poaching are going to damage the population, at least they don't do much about it.

You are sitting in one place, across the Country, and trying to tell me what my area is like? Based on what you think you have found on the internet? Really?
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Old 02-04-2013, 17:06   #151
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"And, actually, Portland is the furthest large city. Eugene, Salem, and especially Medford are all closer. They are the second, third, and fourth largest cities in the state, respectively. True, they aren't nearly as big as Portland, but they're not exactly villages. But you're correct that you probably wouldn't get much traffic from any of those cities, except maybe Medford, because there are other national forests closer to all three of the other cities"

I have to add a lot of details that you didn't find in your research. From Salem to Eugene is the "Breadbasket" of Western Oregon. It is large tracts of agricultural land with forests on the fringes. Eugene's population is bolstered by the fact that it is a, liberal, college town. If SHTF moving down here would be a sharp step down from conditions there. If you go southwest from Eugene things get snotty real fast. The southern Willamette Valley is going to be far better off than anywhere else. Oh, and Medford/ Grants Pass? not only do they have better hunting and easier than we do but to get here from there you either have to go 100 miles around to the south or the north. There is a "road" across the divide, Here, read about what happens when people get their info from the internet and try that route

http://www.theinternetpatrol.com/onl...-snowy-oregon/

Yup, the internet is definitely the place to go for all your SHTF planning
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Old 02-04-2013, 17:38   #152
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You are the one squirming quite frankly.

You had to ride on someone else's intellectual coat tails to figure out where I am. You aren't very impressive.

Your whole scenario is based upon a fantasy model of thousands of people streaming out of the cities to play "Batman of the Boondocks" That scenario dates back to the days of Mel Tappan in the late 70's. Coincidentally, Mr. Tappan located himself, guess where? On the eastern edge of the Siskiyou National Forest in "Rogue River, Oregon".
And BTW if you have ever heard of "Backwoods Home" magazine (Mas Ayoob writes for them) You might wonder why Dave Duffy moved the entire operation to the nearby town and took up residence here

Even Tappan missed the point of the historical lesson, but his predictions became a "taken for fact" projection in the minds of "survivalists" then and "preppers" now. Look at the years following 1929. People did not flock to the country in droves. quite actually the opposite occurred, those from rural areas move TO the cities seeking employment and to stand in soup lines. To think that the cities will empty is the height of over-aggrandizement of your own plans. Do you really think human nature has changed so much in 85 years (perhaps because of your divine birth) that the natural polls have reversed and people are suddenly going to do the opposite of what they have done in the past?

Do you really think that all those masses in the big cities who voted for Obama are going to suddenly give up the idea that Government can save them? They are going to chuck their beliefs and move to "Green Acres"? Every one of your ideas is a projection of that fantasy.

It must be tempting to think that you are part of a group of hundreds of thousands of people who will flee, there is comfort in numbers, and that is exactly why people will stay right where they are. I hate to break it to you, but they made the entertainment series "Doomsday Preppers" because such folks (maybe like all of us in this thread) are a curious, small, anomalous group in society. People are entertained by it, like they find the Amish based shows amusing, doesn't mean that everybody that watches is going to become Amish.

There wasn't a rush to the country in the thirties, there wasn't a rush to country in the eighteen nineties during that depression either.

There is actually no basis for your fantasy of a flood to the country. the reality of the nature of the masses and history does not support it, no matter how much you dream it. To project that all of California is going to head to the woods s some of you clowns have, is just another little-boy in the schoolyard "But what if ..." hypothetical to keep you fantasy fueled.
You can't hunt.

You can't fish.

You can't read a map.

You don't know how many deer there are in the area you are talking about.

You don't know that it isn't the total area that is important but the area of the deer food source. Only a city fool would go off into the woods hoping to bump into a deer. Hunters know to look for what the deer eats and when they eat it. Like if I were hunting for you during the SHTF, I would look for you outside the mall waiting for the food court to open.

But, I don't want to give you the idea that you don't have no value during a SHTF. Everyone needs a little entertainment during the down times. I'm guessing you can tell some good stories and jokes.
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Old 02-04-2013, 18:15   #153
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You can't hunt.

You can't fish.

You can't read a map.

You don't know how many deer there are in the area you are talking about.

You don't know that it isn't the total area that is important but the area of the deer food source. Only a city fool would go off into the woods hoping to bump into a deer. Hunters know to look for what the deer eats and when they eat it. Like if I were hunting for you during the SHTF, I would look for you outside the mall waiting for the food court to open.

But, I don't want to give you the idea that you don't have no value during a SHTF. Everyone needs a little entertainment during the down times. I'm guessing you can tell some good stories and jokes.

You have contributed nothing of any intellectual content to this thread. All you have done is throw rocks from across the Country. News flash I have actually been to Georgia and the East coast. How much time have you spent in my neck of the woods? I am smart enough to not tell you what conditions will be like where you live because I am aware that my knowledge of your area is limited. So what makes you think you are so special you can tell me about where I live?

You want some pics of the bear roast leftovers from our Super Bowl dinner?

You are a jag in the bag.


Hey why don't you come down here and see for yourself? From Portland you can catch a flight to Medford or Eugene and take this internet approved shortcut

http://www.theinternetpatrol.com/onl...-snowy-oregon/

It's got to be OK because it is just as reliable as everything else you know about the area from the internet.

Last edited by countrygun; 02-04-2013 at 18:18..
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Old 02-04-2013, 19:02   #154
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You don't know that it isn't the total area that is important but the area of the deer food source. Only a city fool would go off into the woods hoping to bump into a deer. Hunters know to look for what the deer eats and when they eat it. Like if I were hunting for you during the SHTF, I would look for you outside the mall waiting for the food court to open.

.
You dumb*** you just made my point. That is why the hunters WON'T damage the deer population. You are truly a boob. You ranted about the damage people would do to the animal population and then you make the case for that not happening

What did I say when I answered your question about "hunting plans" ? Did you read it or are you just as stupid as you appear?

What a mouthful od honey pot filler.
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Old 02-04-2013, 19:11   #155
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You want some pics of the bear roast leftovers from our Super Bowl dinner?
Where did you buy that - Trader Joes or Whole Foods?
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Old 02-04-2013, 19:33   #156
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Not directed at any individual, just an overall observation...

To survive a very-bad shtf situation (which is what this thread is addressing), takes not only the ability, but also the discipline, to control one's mind, body, and to some degree, one's environment.

It seems that for it to be believable that any given man would be capable of controlling his mind, body, and environment in a SHTF situation, said man would at least demonstrate the ability to control his emotions when arguing with strangers on the internet.

But what do I know? I'm just a cranky old fart.
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Old 02-04-2013, 20:51   #157
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The s/p forum really needs a moderator. I rarely come here anymore. We need to focus more on tech/ info, and helping each other out then these pissing sessions. On mortality, when Mitch passed away that was a good lesson that no matter what our time will come. Well time to go back to working on my tactical wheel barrel.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:59   #158
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Not directed at any individual, just an overall observation...

To survive a very-bad shtf situation (which is what this thread is addressing), takes not only the ability, but also the discipline, to control one's mind, body, and to some degree, one's environment.

It seems that for it to be believable that any given man would be capable of controlling his mind, body, and environment in a SHTF situation, said man would at least demonstrate the ability to control his emotions when arguing with strangers on the internet.

But what do I know? I'm just a cranky old fart.
The Cranky Old Fart makes an EXTREMELY VALID point!!
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:06   #159
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I think it is now safe and to come out to resume talking about the subject of this thread.

Last edited by PaulMason; 02-06-2013 at 10:07..
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:53   #160
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Bingo!

My County is larger than Rhode Island and has a population of almost exactly 22,000 Or largest city is 48 miles away and has a pop of 6,000 that is three times the pop of the next largest city and 6 times that of the only other "city".

A good portion of out inhabitants are retirees and folks in nursing home and care facilities, our biggest industry since they shut down logging. Those folks don't hunt much.

The other counties around us are almost exactly the same.
Sounds like you are just a hair north of me...or maybe to my east.
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