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Old 04-04-2013, 11:44   #951
1911pro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Glock View Post
DU is the democratic underground...the democrats are the ones who want nothing more than more government involvement in the lives of US citizens (from birth to grave). They don't want us to have guns because that means, we have a way to stand up for and protect our rights. (in other words, act upon our second amendment rights). It is our duty to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government, terrorist and evil doers both foreign and domestic. It's already been deemed by the courts that the police do NOT have an obligation to protect us...their duty is to clean up the mess after all is said and done. So...are you willing to give up those rights to an overpowering government, intent on taking away our ability to stand up to them when they come to take our lives? I'm not! And if you are, you would most likely have fun posting at DU where everybody believes the same way.

I'm not attacking your person by saying that...I'm just trying to help you find somewhere to post your comments where they would be more welcome!
I am guessing he is a retired teacher or something. I got the same impression as you from his posts.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:45   #952
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
My terminology ("expert") probably suggests that we need to be better qualified at carrying a chambered Glock at home and in public than is really necessary.

What level of competency should be prescribed for carrying a Glock in C1? Are having a quality holster and being able to holster safely the only important criteria?

If not 'expert', what should one try to become? 'Pretty good'? 'Better than average'? 'North of Barney Fife but south of Rambo'? Give me some help here. We're talkin' about packing a deadly firearm everywhere with nothing but a trigger pull to prevent it from firing.

You don't have to answer my sarcasm, Cluster, because I know you were trying to be agreeable. I just take this subject pretty seriously, so I react at anything that seems a little cavalier when it comes to safety. In my opinion, one should be highly competent in all aspects of gun operation before holstering up in C1.
I think we're getting somewhere. There are going to be many definitions of Expert, but I think all of them will have some things in common. We could use a competition Expert such IDPA Expert or USPSA "A" class. Of course, competition and defense aren't the same but when we're talking about skill with firearms, I would argue that there is a lot of similarity. Some major differences between competition and real life are the importance of target identification and a clear line of fire (i.e. what's behind your target), but with regard to safe handling of a C1 firearm it's largely the same.

I would expect an expert to have a training frequency of at least weekly and 1000+ rounds per month, to have had numerous firearms courses, and to continue to study with master instructors.

At the various matches I compete in, we have beginning shooters join all the time. We have an orientation, and teach safe gun handling skills including how to safely holster a gun in C1, finger out of the guard while moving, etc. We watch the newbies like hawks, and some get DQed for safety violations. It doesn't take very long for them to learn how to do this safely. I would say that a level of competence similar to an IDPA Marksman or USPSA D class would be what's needed for safe C1 carry--nowhere close to Expert or A.

This is an interesting discussion. Let's keep talking.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:08   #953
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I carry my G17 with a round in the chamber for sure. I am constantly aware of the loaded chamber, and my trigger finger is never near the trigger unless I am shooting the G17 at the range. No ADs here.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:56   #954
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[quote=PhotoFeller;20154416]
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Originally Posted by RJ's Guns View Post
No, what says it all about vandros is;



RJ,
Instead of going after Vandros in a personal way, why don't you debate the merits of his statements? Choose any aspect of his reasons for electing C3 with a Glock and show why it is wrong.

By the way, all of my comments in this thread, and comments of others who have chosen C3, are based on concealed carry of a Glock pistol without a manual safety. Since you have clearly stated in other threads that YOU DON'T CARRY A GLOCK, you probably should remove yourself from this discussion.

Please be clear: this discussion has been all about carry mode for Glock pistols.

[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]

I believe that for an opinion to be valid or given any weight/credibility the person giving said opinion must have relevant education, training, skill, or experience, and knowledge in a particular subject matter. Therefore it is proper to draw the reader’s attention to the fact that vandros has admitted that he isa relative newcomer to gun-owning community.”

As appears to be the norm with you, you are wrong, once again. Just because I do not like Glocks and no longer carry a Glock, does not mean that I have not, in the past, carried a Glock for a substantial period of time.

Re; those "who have chosen C3, are based on concealed carry of a Glock pistol."

If that is the case, any clear thinking individual would recommend carrying another type of handgun, instead of carrying a Glock in C3, with all the limitations thereto and the alleged hazards that you claim are attendant to carrying a Glock in condition 1.

Did you not post that you were through posting on this thread. I knew that your ego would not allow you to quit, so it came as no great surprise to me that you continue to dominate, ad nauseum, this thread

RJ
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Old 04-04-2013, 13:26   #955
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Originally Posted by 1911pro View Post
I am guessing he is a retired teacher or something. I got the same impression as you from his posts.
Whenever you're ready, we can compare notes on personal accomplishments and career achievements. And I can prove mine.

I'm not offended by being likened to a teacher, son. I'm married to a gal who taught kids with learning disabilities for many years. I know about teacher sacrifices and the wonderful work they do. Actually, your intended slam was a compliment.
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Old 04-04-2013, 14:06   #956
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Really it is just the very simple fact that the officer wants to stay alive. Carrying with an empty chamber puts a person at a disadvantage. It really is that easy.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Do you know for a fact that sworn LEO have the option to carry the issue sidearm in the condition he/she desires, or they're under orders to carry in a particular condition?
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Old 04-04-2013, 14:15   #957
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[quote=RJ's Guns;20155478]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post


[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]

I believe that for an opinion to be valid or given any weight/credibility the person giving said opinion must have relevant education, training, skill, or experience, and knowledge in a particular subject matter. Therefore it is proper to draw the reader’s attention to the fact that vandros has admitted that he isa relative newcomer to gun-owning community.”

As appears to be the norm with you, you are wrong, once again. Just because I do not like Glocks and no longer carry a Glock, does not mean that I have not, in the past, carried a Glock for a substantial period of time.

Re; those "who have chosen C3, are based on concealed carry of a Glock pistol."

If that is the case, any clear thinking individual would recommend carrying another type of handgun, instead of carrying a Glock in C3, with all the limitations thereto and the alleged hazards that you claim are attendant to carrying a Glock in condition 1.

Did you not post that you were through posting on this thread. I knew that your ego would not allow you to quit, so it came as no great surprise to me that you continue to dominate, ad nauseum, this thread

RJ
I was finished, but I changed my mind. April fool! (Did I promise to stop posting on April 1st?)
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Old 04-04-2013, 14:21   #958
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Dang, everyone's squabbling and getting all defensive and ****. I thought I posted a reasonable response to the suggestion that only "experts" should consider carrying in C1, and no comment? Nothing?
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Old 04-04-2013, 14:40   #959
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Whenever you're ready, we can compare notes on personal accomplishments and career achievements. And I can prove mine.

I'm not offended by being likened to a teacher, son. I'm married to a gal who taught kids with learning disabilities for many years. I know about teacher sacrifices and the wonderful work they do. Actually, your intended slam was a compliment.
I know all I need to know from your posts. They are all over analyzing garbage asking everyone to justify what you should already have the common sense to understand. Maybe I shouldn't have offended teachers as a whole. I do apologize to those few who are not left wing idiots.
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Old 04-04-2013, 14:40   #960
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I'm shocked I got a sticky thread in my second thread on this site. Thank you gentlemen for the good advice, as well as the laughs. I carry my G23 daily in C1 in an MIC holster, as someone on this site linked me to in a PM. I love it. I hope others have gotten as much amusement out of this thread as I have. Thanks again guys.
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Old 04-04-2013, 14:43   #961
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[quote=RJ's Guns;20155478]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post


[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]

I believe that for an opinion to be valid or given any weight/credibility the person giving said opinion must have relevant education, training, skill, or experience, and knowledge in a particular subject matter. Therefore it is proper to draw the reader’s attention to the fact that vandros has admitted that he isa relative newcomer to gun-owning community.”

As appears to be the norm with you, you are wrong, once again. Just because I do not like Glocks and no longer carry a Glock, does not mean that I have not, in the past, carried a Glock for a substantial period of time.

Re; those "who have chosen C3, are based on concealed carry of a Glock pistol."

If that is the case, any clear thinking individual would recommend carrying another type of handgun, instead of carrying a Glock in C3, with all the limitations thereto and the alleged hazards that you claim are attendant to carrying a Glock in condition 1.

Did you not post that you were through posting on this thread. I knew that your ego would not allow you to quit, so it came as no great surprise to me that you continue to dominate, ad nauseum, this thread

RJ
I was finished, but I changed my mind. April fool! (Did I promise to stop posting on April 1st?)

My ego brought me back, you say? Actually, I don't need to joust with you to maintain a fairly healthy ego.
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Old 04-04-2013, 14:58   #962
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Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post
Perhaps, perhaps not. Do you know for a fact that sworn LEO have the option to carry the issue sidearm in the condition he/she desires, or they're under orders to carry in a particular condition?
They are told to carry with a round in the chamber.
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Old 04-04-2013, 15:08   #963
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Originally Posted by ArlenGunClub View Post
I'm shocked I got a sticky thread in my second thread on this site. Thank you gentlemen for the good advice, as well as the laughs. I carry my G23 daily in C1 in an MIC holster, as someone on this site linked me to in a PM. I love it. I hope others have gotten as much amusement out of this thread as I have. Thanks again guys.
Cool!
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Old 04-04-2013, 15:16   #964
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Originally Posted by 1911pro View Post
I know all I need to know from your posts. They are all over analyzing garbage asking everyone to justify what you should already have the common sense to understand. Maybe I shouldn't have offended teachers as a whole. I do apologize to those few who are not left wing idiots.
You're gonna have to be careful about using the term "common sense" here at GT. It is now considered to be an 'anti-gun' term that is used by Biden, the Brady bunch, Schumer and the other Progressives to dupe us into believing more gun control measures are "just common sense for protecting the kids". That term is a no-no!

You say it is intuitively obvious that Glock pistols should be carried C1 by everyone regardless of their competence level. I believe it can be shown quite conclusively by posts here and in other threads that people new to guns who have little/no experience and training can be quite dangerous to themselves and others. Your logic is flawed, and your wholesale advise could get someone hurt.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 04-04-2013 at 16:01..
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Old 04-04-2013, 15:25   #965
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Originally Posted by ArlenGunClub View Post
Hey guys,
I just got my CHL in TX and am deciding how I will carry my G23. I have heard arguments for keeping one in the chamber and keeping all in the clip, and I'm still stuck on the decision. I want y'alls opinions. I feel uneasy carrying one in the chamber as the glock has no external safety, but I don't want to waste time and possibly alert an enemy racking the slide if it ever comes down to it. Help me Glock Talk.
Here is a guy who has been persuaded by our advice to carry C1. This is the OP that we're all talking about in this thread. I'm thinking he sounds like someone who should have started a little lower on the learning curve than jumpin' immediately into C1. At least the MIC device securely covers the trigger.

Good work, guys. Or as 1911 says Cool!!

[Sorry I needed to edit this post, dangit. I misspelled a word. Now the edit police are gonna be all over me!]

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 04-04-2013 at 15:59..
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Old 04-04-2013, 15:39   #966
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Originally Posted by Lady Glock View Post
I'm not attacking your person by saying that...I'm just trying to help you find somewhere to post your comments where they would be more welcome!
Really? You are trying to help me. Saying I don't belong here if I post a certain view isn't a little personal? Saying I need a membership with the Democrat Underground isn't a little personal?

I don't care about your post saying I don't belong. I don't like you following a different standard than you hold me to.
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Old 04-04-2013, 15:59   #967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911pro View Post
They are told to carry with a round in the chamber.
That's exactly what I thought, but you preferred to frame your answer as the officer's choice which it clearly isn't.

Quote:
You do not see cops running around with empty chambers for a reason. (1911pro)
Quote:
Really it is just the very simple fact that the officer wants to stay alive. Carrying with an empty chamber puts a person at a disadvantage. It really is that easy. (1911pro)
So let's now stipulate that for sworn LEO the choice to carry his/her issue sidearm in C1 isn't optional. Thank you for establishing far more validity to my original statements than I could ever have.

Quote:
Would one of those reasons be due to the fact that LEO are assigned to patrol areas most prone to crime? Or that LEO are trained as first responders to situations where the use of force may be required under more possible scenarios than can be predicted at the time?

How many anecdotes have we read about LEO personnel never having to even draw their issue weapons in the course of their careers? The fact that LEOs must qualify regularly with their issue weapons is no guarantee they're any more effective with them than are civilians; however the big "BUT" is that if suddenly confronted with a dangerous situation the officer is required to respond, if possible. Civilians are not legally required to respond.
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Last edited by unit1069; 04-04-2013 at 16:06..
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Old 04-04-2013, 16:10   #968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
Really? You are trying to help me. Saying I don't belong here if I post a certain view isn't a little personal? Saying I need a membership with the Democrat Underground isn't a little personal?

I don't care about your post saying I don't belong. I don't like you following a different standard than you hold me to.
Good...I got my point across. You told another person they didn't belong, yet when you were told the same thing in a little bit of a different manner, you were insulted? Maybe you won't do that to another person again, you think?
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Old 04-04-2013, 16:11   #969
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You're gonna have to be careful about using the term "common sense" here at GT. It is now considered to be an 'anti-gun' term that is used by Biden, the Brady bunch, Schumer and the other Progressives to dupe us into believing more gun control measures are "just common sense for protecting the kids". That term is a no-no!

You say it is intuitively obvious that Glock pistols should be carried C1 by everyone regardless their competence level. I believe it can be shown quite conclusively by posts here and in other threads that people new to guns who have little/no experience and training can be quite dangerous to themselves and others. Your logic is flawed, and your wholesale advise could get someone hurt.
Ever heard of "Common Sense, Rights of Man." It was used by Thomas Paine way before any of those idiots you listed. You may have a reading and comprehension problem. Maybe you should go back and have your wife read my previous posts to you so you can understand them? The Glock is made to be carried with a round in the chamber. If it makes you crap your depends then:
A. Get some training so you can from keep finger banging the trigger like your date on prom night.
B. Carry with an empty chamber because you cannot keep away from that inevitable feeling of crapping yourself.
C. Get something with about a 12 pound trigger pull.
Notice A,B, and C said nothing about sitting home on your computer telling all how safe you are while trying to make them justify the need and safety of carrying with a round in the chamber. I am sure you will never do "A" because that would cause a real world experience, but that is the preffered answer.
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Old 04-04-2013, 16:26   #970
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Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post
That's exactly what I thought, but you preferred to frame your answer as the officer's choice which it clearly isn't.





So let's now stipulate that for sworn LEO the choice to carry his/her issue sidearm in C1 isn't optional. Thank you for establishing far more validity to my original statements than I could ever have.
So who's choice is it you ask? Those who train these officers to stay alive. I am still wondering what validity your statement has?
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Old 04-04-2013, 16:35   #971
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Here is a guy who has been persuaded by our advice to carry C1. This is the OP that we're all talking about in this thread. I'm thinking he sounds like someone who should have started a little lower on the learning curve than jumpin' immediately into C1. At least the MIC device securely covers the trigger.

Good work, guys. Or as 1911 says Cool!!

[Sorry I needed to edit this post, dangit. I misspelled a word. Now the edit police are gonna be all over me!]
Again. COMMON SENSE has prevailed.
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