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Old 03-20-2013, 19:03   #851
Clusterfrack
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Long thread... and definitely not the first of these I've read on a bunch of forums.

I am 100% a C1 carrier, despite some Israeli training early on . If asked, I always recommend serious training before anyone carries a firearm. Holy cow I've seen some sketchy things done with carry guns. Makes me cringe just to think about it. A common problem is holstering the gun safely. E.g. all sorts of things can go wrong when you're holstering--shirt or cord gets into the trigger guard, etc. So, I guess if people aren't going to get the training, and can't manipulate their CCW safely, then C3 is a decent solution.
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Old 03-20-2013, 19:16   #852
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Originally Posted by dwbG30SF View Post
...C1 may not be for everyone, but it's the only way I've carried for the past 30 years, without one mishap.
Your perfect record over 30 years makes a powerful statement that training, experience and extraordinary caution can result in error free performance.

The Glock Safe Action System is cool, but it doesn't prevent the pistol from firing if the trigger is pulled.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 03-20-2013 at 22:55..
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Old 03-20-2013, 20:23   #853
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You are right PhotoFeller, experience and training are paramont for C1. If a person does not possess these skills, then by all means they should not utilize C1.

But if you are going to CC in C1, then for the love of God, please get the training that this type of carry requires.

It's up to us, as advocates of the 2nd Amendment to be responsible and knowledgable, in order to set forth the right example for others.

Gun owners like us, can either shed a negative or a positive light on our right to carry our weapons, either open or concealed. Which ever way you prefer to carry, let's do it the right way.

You guys are great, all of you, and I respect every opinion.

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Old 03-20-2013, 20:34   #854
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Originally Posted by dwbG30SF View Post
You are right PhotoFeller, experience and training are paramont for C1. If a person does not possess these skills, then by all means they should not utilize C1.

But you are going to CC in C1, then for the love of God, please get the training that this type of carry requires.

It's up to us, as advocates of the 2nd Amendment to be responsible and knowledgable, in order to set forth the right example for others.

Gun owners like us, can either shed a negative or a positive light on our right to carry our weapons, either open or concealed. Which ever way you prefer to carry, let's do it the right way.

You guys are great, all of you, and I respect every opinion.
Amen. Walk before you run. And don't run if it isn't necessary.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 03-21-2013 at 01:10..
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:34   #855
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Originally Posted by dwbG30SF View Post
I only chose these two quotes from your post, because I'm not sure you understand just how SAFE a Glock really is to carry, in Condition One, or not.

Just check this out from the GLOCK website. IMO it's a very safe gun to carry in C1, very safe in the right hands that is.

(Image deleted)

Quote:
GLOCK pistols are equipped with the “Safe Action”® System, a fully automatic safety system consisting of three passive, independently operating, mechanical safeties, which sequentially disengage when the trigger is pulled and automatically reengage when the trigger is released.
Quote:
The trigger safety is incorporated into the trigger in the form of a lever and when in the forward position, blocks the trigger from moving rearward. To fire the pistol, the trigger safety and the trigger itself, must be deliberately depressed at the same time. If the trigger safety is not depressed, the trigger will not move rearwards and allow the pistol to fire. If the trigger is in the forward position the pistol may be loaded.
(Image deleted)

Quote:
The spring-loaded firing pin safety projects into the firing pin channel and mechanically blocks the firing pin from moving forward. When the trigger is being moved rearwards, a vertical extension of the trigger bar pushes the firing pin safety upwards, clearing the firing pin channel. During the slide cycling process, the firing pin safety automatically reengages.
(Image deleted)

Quote:
The rear part of the trigger bar, which has a cruciform shape, rests with both arms on the drop safety shelf located in the trigger mechanism housing. When the trigger is pulled to the rear, the trigger bar begins to move down off the shelf until finally separating from the firing pin lug. During the slide cycling process, the trigger bar is lifted and caught by the firing pin lug. The trigger bar is reengaged by the firing pin lug.
I'm sure you've seen or heard of the 3 safety features that each and every Glock incorporates, and they actually work. I'm only trying to help clarify how safe it is to carry a Glock at the ready, in C1. Can't we just all get along?
Ten years and umpteen thousand read and perused posts ago I might have bought into Glock's, 'party line'; but that was ten years and umpteen thousand posts ago! In the interim I've read more posts about what can AND has gone wrong with loaded Glock pistols that (like most things in life) I take Glock, GmbH's claims of, 'perfection' with a large dose of, 'purgative salts'.

Contrary to prevailing popular internet lore, Glock pistols are cheap, expediently manufactured, plastic-frame pistols; and, in my considered opinion, should be treated and handled that way. Unfortunately most of humanity is naive in their thinking, prejudice in their thoughts, and freely given to fanciful flights of imagination, and (otherwise) chasing strong emotional whims. (If you don't believe me, stop and reflect for a moment on the exact nature and quality (or apparent lack thereof) to political leadership throughout the Western World, today!)

The current design, manufacture, and popularity of cheap plastic pistols is, but, one more example of mankind's increasing inability to either effectively govern themselves, or show any particular regard for the well-being of others. In my experience ALL of these pretensioned, striker-fired, cheap plastic pistols lack the inherent safeguards and user-manipulated features necessary to make them genuinely safe for the largely inexperienced general public to so frequently and freely employ.

What I've done in this thread, the thoughts I've expressed, and the insights I've attempted to share I WILL NEVER DO AGAIN. Everyman rises or falls on the basis of his own individual perception. One of the first lessons I learned while studying the Humanities is that: Most people are, quite frankly, too stupid to even so much as recognize what is or isn't good for them. (The devil's, 'stock and trade'!)

My own mother who was eminently successful at her chosen profession, and as cerebral and intellectually brilliant as she was physically beautiful once glanced over at me while I was struggling to work my way through some sort of knotty problem, and said to me, 'Son, if you think that you can rely on others to either tell you the truth or figure that problem out for you, I'm telling you, right now, that you can't!' 'Either you learn, 'How' to think for yourself, and discover the, 'right answers' all by yourself and with only a minimum of outside assistance, or you are, more than likely, going to fail.'

In the ten years that I've been on Glock Talk I've read and seen enough evidence to prove that: (1) Glock's advertising literature says one thing; and (2) user field-experience with Glock pistols reveals another entirely different proposition. What is more, this observation on my part doesn't even begin to take into consideration the widely varying personal skill levels, degrees of self-discipline, or myriad physical circumstances Glock owner/users experience, everyday, with their cheap plastic pistols.

All life is a gift from God; and it is, also, 'a discipline' as well. For some people, and sometimes, getting shot in the foot, or killing the person standing next to them is a necessary and unavoidable lesson that one, or more, of those involved just had to learn. As for myself? Well, in a PERFECT WORLD I do not believe there would be ANY pretensioned, striker-fired, cheap plastic pistols, AND only small necessity to carry in C-1. (Obviously, we do not live in a perfect world; AND, guess what? Glock pistols along with the people who use them aren't perfect either.)

Now, go ahead and do whatever suits your fancy without any further interference from me.



Last edited by Arc Angel; 03-21-2013 at 10:14..
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Old 03-21-2013, 13:28   #856
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Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
Ten years and umpteen thousand read and perused posts ago I might have bought into Glock's, 'party line'; but that was ten years and umpteen thousand posts ago! In the interim I've read more posts about what can AND has gone wrong with loaded Glock pistols that (like most things in life) I take Glock, GmbH's claims of, 'perfection' with a large dose of, 'purgative salts'.

Contrary to prevailing popular internet lore, Glock pistols are cheap, expediently manufactured, plastic-frame pistols; and, in my considered opinion, should be treated and handled that way. Unfortunately most of humanity is naive in their thinking, prejudice in their thoughts, and freely given to fanciful flights of imagination, and (otherwise) chasing strong emotional whims. (If you don't believe me, stop and reflect for a moment on the exact nature and quality (or apparent lack thereof) to political leadership throughout the Western World, today!)

The current design, manufacture, and popularity of cheap plastic pistols is, but, one more example of mankind's increasing inability to either effectively govern themselves, or show any particular regard for the well-being of others. In my experience ALL of these pretensioned, striker-fired, cheap plastic pistols lack the inherent safeguards and user-manipulated features necessary to make them genuinely safe for the largely inexperienced general public to so frequently and freely employ.

What I've done in this thread, the thoughts I've expressed, and the insights I've attempted to share I WILL NEVER DO AGAIN. Everyman rises or falls on the basis of his own individual perception. One of the first lessons I learned while studying the Humanities is that: Most people are, quite frankly, too stupid to even so much as recognize what is or isn't good for them. (The devil's, 'stock and trade'!)

My own mother who was eminently successful at her chosen profession, and as cerebral and intellectually brilliant as she was physically beautiful once glanced over at me while I was struggling to work my way through some sort of knotty problem, and said to me, 'Son, if you think that you can rely on others to either tell you the truth or figure that problem out for you, I'm telling you, right now, that you can't!' 'Either you learn, 'How' to think for yourself, and discover the, 'right answers' all by yourself and with only a minimum of outside assistance, or you are, more than likely, going to fail.'

In the ten years that I've been on Glock Talk I've read and seen enough evidence to prove that: (1) Glock's advertising literature says one thing; and (2) user field-experience with Glock pistols reveals another entirely different proposition. What is more, this observation on my part doesn't even begin to take into consideration the widely varying personal skill levels, degrees of self-discipline, or myriad physical circumstances Glock owner/users experience, everyday, with their cheap plastic pistols.

All life is a gift from God; and it is, also, 'a discipline' as well. For some people, and sometimes, getting shot in the foot, or killing the person standing next to them is a necessary and unavoidable lesson that one, or more, of those involved just had to learn. As for myself? Well, in a PERFECT WORLD I do not believe there would be ANY pretensioned, striker-fired, cheap plastic pistols, AND only small necessity to carry in C-1. (Obviously, we do not live in a perfect world; AND, guess what? Glock pistols along with the people who use them aren't perfect either.)

Now, go ahead and do whatever suits your fancy without any further interference from me.


AA-

I've read your posts carefully, one and all, and I've gained valuable insights from them.

I agree with your views about the pitfalls of carrying Glocks in C1, particularly by untrained, inexperienced people. You and I and others who have stepped up in this thread have an important point of view to share about carry mode. However, our word is not gospel. All we can hope to do is cause people to think about their carry mode options during a process of preparation to take up CC.

In the end, if folks understand the responsibility and accountability of their decisions under the law, have an understanding of the risk of ND versus the low probability of attack, realize that Glock pistols don't have a safety that prevents unintended trigger operation, and embrace the idea that training and experience are absolutely essential to become competent with a deadly weapon, the final decision of carry mode is up to each individual. Your ideas and mine are nothing more than fodder for thought.

I don't expect anyone to jump from C1 to C3 because of something I've posted. I just hope some folks will chew on the ideas offered and consider which carry mode is most sensible for them given their personal circumstances.

Thanks for taking the time to be part of this thread. I appreciate your point of view on the safety considerations that are of utmost importance in this discussion. You've been doggedly committed to the prevention of NDs as long as I've been reading your posts.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 03-22-2013 at 03:32..
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Old 03-24-2013, 17:01   #857
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AA-

I've read your posts carefully, one and all, and I've gained valuable insights from them.

I agree with your views about the pitfalls of carrying Glocks in C1, particularly by untrained, inexperienced people. You and I and others who have stepped up in this thread have an important point of view to share about carry mode. However, our word is not gospel. All we can hope to do is cause people to think about their carry mode options during a process of preparation to take up CC.

In the end, if folks understand the responsibility and accountability of their decisions under the law, have an understanding of the risk of ND versus the low probability of attack, realize that Glock pistols don't have a safety that prevents unintended trigger operation, and embrace the idea that training and experience are absolutely essential to become competent with a deadly weapon, the final decision of carry mode is up to each individual. Your ideas and mine are nothing more than fodder for thought.

I don't expect anyone to jump from C1 to C3 because of something I've posted. I just hope some folks will chew on the ideas offered and consider which carry mode is most sensible for them given their personal circumstances.

Thanks for taking the time to be part of this thread. I appreciate your point of view on the safety considerations that are of utmost importance in this discussion. You've been doggedly committed to the prevention of NDs as long as I've been reading your posts.
Well with Glocks there are no NDs or ADs if one's finger is off of the trigger.
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Old 03-24-2013, 17:28   #858
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Well with Glocks there are no NDs or ADs if one's finger is off of the trigger.
You don't get out much do you? I don't mean to be sarcastic...uh, yes I do.

The above statement is only partly true. Taken at face value it is blantly false. There have been several recorded incidents of ADs or NDs due to other factors besides one's finger.

Quote:
NYPD STATS
Statistics: nobody likes them, but they are necessary and they do have their place. We can analyze statistical data to make inferences and to help in the decision making process. In this case the numbers, which never lie, are necessary for exposing and revealing one of the biggest but least talked about issues plaguing law enforcement today: The accidental firing of one’s weapon, the negligent discharge.

Lets take a look at the NYPD firearms discharge report for the year 2004 (as published by WCBS). In that year police engaged in 11 gunfights (exchange of fire between officers and subjects). In those 11 gun fights, there were 92 shots fired by police officers and 18 of the 92 were hits, that’s 20% accuracy. In the same year there were 27 accidental discharges of an officer’s duty firearm. Of those 27 accidental discharges, 28 shots were fired and 13 were hits. 13 of 28 or 46% of shots fired hit the officer or bystander.
In the year 2005 there were 16 gun fights and 24 accidental discharges of firearms. In those 16 gun fights 35 officers fired. The officers fired a total of 276 rounds hitting their target only 23 times. That is a dismal 8% accuracy rate. The average was 17 shots fired per incident and 8 per officer. In 2005 25 accidental shots were fired by 24 NYPD police officers hitting 10 times, with an unfortunate accuracy rating of 42 percent.
Unfortunately the police are much more likely to shoot themselves or a bystander then they are to engage a criminal in an actual gunfight. This statistical conclusion is not a matter of opinion or meant to do anything else but state the obvious; if one is more likely to shoot oneself or another accidentally (more then twice as likely in 2004), then one should not have a gun. Those officers pose a greater threat to society and themselves than the criminals. These are the NYPD’s statistics as reported. It is unfortunate, but we can learn from this. The answer is not to disarm the police like in the UK, no, the answer is not to fire anybody or punish and embarrass the department. The answer is to slightly transform our training and culture within US law enforcement.
The NYPD is supposed to be a prestigious elite organization that other police and security agencies can look up to worldwide. But looking at the statistics of other units around the world who have equal to and more gunfights per year (Israel for example) you will see they have far fewer accidental shooting incidents. This is due to the fact that in other countries outside the US, like Russia and other EU countries, a bullet is not carried in the chamber.


Source: http://www.nyclu.org/files/nypd_fire...ort_102207.pdf
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Old 03-24-2013, 17:32   #859
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You don't get out much do you? I don't mean to be sarcastic...uh, yes I do.

The above statement is only partly true. Taken at face value it is blantly false. There have been several recorded incidents of ADs or NDs due to other factors besides one's finger.
Can you support this with data? Did the gun fire without the trigger being pressed? I think the point was that a Glock in a modern holster in C1 isn't going to fire?
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Old 03-24-2013, 17:54   #860
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Can you support this with data? Did the gun fire without the trigger being pressed? I think the point was that a Glock in a modern holster in C1 isn't going to fire?


I would also be very interested in seeing this data as well.
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Old 03-24-2013, 19:14   #861
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Having a SD handgun without a round in the chamber, is like having your car in the garage, with no gas in the tank.

If you even own a gun, you need to know how to carry it loaded and ready to engage, at all times.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:22   #862
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There was an episode within the last, oh, 18 months, where a man's worn leather holster caught the trigger while, IIRC, he was sitting or wiggling around in his car seat. Bullet entered this thigh, pierced a major artery, and he bled out. Not a finger, but a failure in that he should have retired that worn out holster long ago.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:49   #863
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There was an episode within the last, oh, 18 months, where a man's worn leather holster caught the trigger while, IIRC, he was sitting or wiggling around in his car seat. Bullet entered this thigh, pierced a major artery, and he bled out. Not a finger, but a failure in that he should have retired that worn out holster long ago.
If this is the same case that I know about, happened in Northern Virginia, I think in a Springfield Mall parking lot. The mall does not allow the carrying of arms by private citizens so he had left his Glock .40S&W in his glove box. He had taken his children back to their vehicle while his wife was finishing up something in a store. He removed his pistol to reholster nad that is when the AD occured. As I recall, he had the presence of mind to dial 911 but bled out before they could get him to a hospital.

This is a strong argument for two safety factors IF you have removed your pistol for some reason and then wish to reholster. 1) Use a kydex holster or if it has to be leather, make sure that there is are no "holster ears/tabs" that can enter the trigger guard. 2) Get out of the vehicle with your strong side angled outward before you reholster. Then IF you have an AD, at least the bullet will not hit any part of your body.

From time to time, I go to a post office in my neighborhood which is part of a very small strip of connected businesses. I can go armed along the sidewalk, in the parking lot, and up to the outside collection box since all of those areas are common. But if I wish to enter the post office, I must disarm. When I return to my car, I rearm while standing outside of my vehicle with the driver's door open. I do not reholster in the car. And yes, I use a kydex holster.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:04   #864
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I picked up a blood pressure prescription last night from a major brand pharmacy where we have been doing business for years.

Fortunately, my wife didn't take the medication because the pill shape wasn't the same as her usual medicine. As it turned out, the prescription sold to me was a blood pressure medication, but not the right one. A human error was made in filling the order.

We all know and trust our pharmacies because the personnel are highly trained professionals who are responsible and accountable under the law to dispense very specifically prescribed medical products. If they make mistakes, the consequences for patients can be deadly.

I mention this close call as evidence that training, experience, practice, ongoing auditing for accuracy and legal compliance, accountability for malpractice and the best intentions can still result in serious human error.

Those who argue that proper training and paying close attention anytime we handle a gun will eliminate human errors are in denial for the convenience of carrying a SD weapon as they damn well please.
I disagree with this statement. While one is never going to reach 100% certainty, proper procedures (all of them) will go a very long way in reducing accidents with a firearm. Like anything in life, there is a tradeoff; the value one gets for venturing. We drive cars knowing full well that people are injured and killed in them every day. We fly in airplanes for the same reason. We assess the value we get from doing these things against the probability of error leading to disaster, and take the decision that the venture is worth the risk.

Far fewer people are injured or killed every year in accidents with firearms than with cars or pools or ladders or a host of other things. It does come down to what one is willing to accept to get some desired result.

My sidearm has a far greater chance of never hurting anyone due to some accident than just about any other "dangerous tool" I own (and yes, motor vehicles are tools). Doesn't mean 100% but pretty darned close. And that is because of how I treat it and how I treat me when it is in my presence/possession. In a car, if I see a potential accident in my immediate surrounds, I can take evasive action and have done this a number of times over the past 49 years.

With my sidearm once a bullet starts down the barrel, it all depends upon where that barrel is pointed because there ain't going to be any time or chance for evasive moves. This means for me, I must make certain that no bullet begins that trip without my full knowledge and intentional action. This is my goal when I have a firearm in my possession.
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Old 03-25-2013, 13:34   #865
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Where's the love? Is it really that hard to understand and agree-to-disagree?
(1) Any semi-automatic weapon can malfunction for a host of reasons (bad hardware that slipped through the inspection line, user error, or an "act of God" situation).

(2) However, the AD or ND experiences with a Glock handgun drop drastically when compared to other semi-auto weapons...and that is saying something since there are so many Glocks in active service.

(3) You have a decision to make in how you carry your weapon based upon a whole slew of factors including but not limited to common sense, data/statistics, the contexts you find yourself in, and your own "gut feeling."

(4) Whatever you decide to do, BE SAFE, be prepared, and be aware of your surroundings.

(5) It's a free country (at least for now)--let your GT buddies carry however they want and you do the same--end of discussion.

This won't make a lot of sense to some of you, but for most of you it will: I carry C1, I am safe, I am prepared to the best of my knowledge, and I do my level best to have good SA...

Oh, here's one more:

(6) No SD situation ever is the same! Every BG is different, every scenario is different, every one of us is different--and we need to be prepared as much as possible for every realistic scenario (barring an alien invasion from outer space--oh wait, never mind, they're flowing in illegally from from Mexico as we speak).
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Old 03-25-2013, 17:52   #866
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There was an episode within the last, oh, 18 months, where a man's worn leather holster caught the trigger while, IIRC, he was sitting or wiggling around in his car seat. Bullet entered this thigh, pierced a major artery, and he bled out. Not a finger, but a failure in that he should have retired that worn out holster long ago.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...rror-revealed/
Carry Issues

Not sure if this is the story or not but this is not an issue of a Glock malfunction but rather an issue of safety on the part of the owner--his holster was not safe due to its age and bad design for this particular weapon...
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Old 03-25-2013, 21:24   #867
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I do believe this thread is valuable just for prompting everyone to evaluate his/her lifestyle circumstances and weigh that evaluation against the statistical probabilities that he/she is more likely to encounter a potential life-or-death situation or an AD/ND event. A bullet can't be recalled once it's launched from its platform and unless it's completely under the control of the operator there's no telling who that bullet will impact.
I agree with what you said.

What is a bit unnerving to me is the "FlashBang Bra Holster" with one in the chamber. The handgun is pointing horizontally to the side when it is drawn and again when it is reinserted into the holster. If there is one in the chamber and an AD occurs during a quick draw or a ND occurs when reinserting the gun into the holster, an innocent bystander could easily be shot because of the horizontal orientation. (Aside from the scary horizontal quick draw by a novice, note how she kinda fumbles while reinserting the gun into the holster twice during the following video.)


OTOH, if there is an AD or ND wearing a waist carry during quick draw or reinsersion, there is more probability that the shooter would shoot him/her self in the thigh, foot or ground and not an innocent bystander.

Sky

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Old 03-25-2013, 21:48   #868
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http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...rror-revealed/
Carry Issues

Not sure if this is the story or not but this is not an issue of a Glock malfunction but rather an issue of safety on the part of the owner--his holster was not safe due to its age and bad design for this particular weapon...
Spot on true.

It behooves any person who carries a firearm to be constantly aware of the condition of his equipment. Along with this I would add the clothes he wears when armed as well since this sort of mistake can occur with shirt tails, broken belt loops, and a bunch of other items one wears or carries.
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Old 03-25-2013, 21:50   #869
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I just have to shake my head at the stupidity and foolishness of the people that carry with an empty chamber. So many people are so concerned with the potential legal ramification from having a lightened trigger pull weight and how that could enable a plaintiff’s attorney or a prosecutor to argue that a shooting was accidental and/or negligent, yet they do not give a thought to the line of cross-examination along the lines of:

Attorney- Now Mr defendant, why did you not carry your pistol with a round in the chamber like virtually every on duty police officer in this country.

Defendant -Because we cannot “eliminate human errors” I was afraid that the pistol would fire accidently.

“My rationale - I want to guarantee no AD due to operator error and I don't want to shoot myself in the hip when the adrenaline dump begins and (my) fine motor reflexes go out the window making (me) likely to accidentally place (my) finger on the trigger and squeeze the trigger without realizing (I was) doing this.” (vandros post #22)

Attorney – So then you admit that you feel that you cannot trust yourself to be safe with a loaded pistol, correct.

Defendant- Yes, the fact that I did not carry my pistol with a round in the chamber was because of my “assessments of” my “abilities.”(vandros post #34).

Attorney – Am I correct then that you do not feel it is safe for you to carry your pistol with a round in the chamber.

Defendant- “The important issue here .... is the adrenaline dump effects: blood pressure shoots up, hands (shake) uncontrollably, heart rate shoots up, breathing rate increases, fine motor reflexes are gone - all of which increases the chances of handling (my) weapon in less than ideal fashion- no matter how much (I) train... But, there is also no disputing the fact that adrenaline dump makes (me) less proficient in handling (my) weapon safely (vandros post #88)

Attorney- And when the plaintiff/victim was shot by you all of those factors that you just testified about were happening to you, correct.



Even a lawyer just out of law school could win this type of case and the defendant’s goose is cooked.

One other thing makes me smile. All those people that have been arguing for C3 carry on this thread, especially those such as vandros and photofeller had better hope that they are never involved in a shooting because any decent attorney in his exercise of due diligence will discover their posts and they will be, to put it mildly, S.O.L.

RJ
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:47   #870
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Yes, one in the chamber. Have carried this way for years. Weapons aren't much good if they're not loaded.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:16   #871
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Originally Posted by Smooth_squeeze View Post
Well, well my dear sir, your comments quoted above have crossed the rhetorical line a tad bit, I'd say. That last line tells me you are saying those who believe C1 is fine if they are comfortable with it, and feel safe enough to do so without undue risk to themselves and others, are basically being irresponsible, inconsiderate of other's safety, and are engaged in a dangerous and reckless activity.

Have you decided to take off a psychological mask heretofore left in place?

With some of the more recent comments in this thread, and now yours, I'd not be surprised if the moderators don't see fit to lock this thread. I suppose it's also possible that may be your wish.
There is one last thing to correct the record on. The post you criticize here, if read for its true intent, says people who argue that practice and training can eliminate all possibility of human error are wrong; those who close their eyes to the reality of human frailty do so because it serves their own ends.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:45   #872
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This is really kind of simple. Carry your weapon the way you want to carry it. Everything is a risk in life. Driving, flying, etc. If you choose to carry a concealed weapon, get some training first. Practice, then practice some more. Practice drawing(unloaded), practice drawing(unloaded) and after a few months practice drawing and firing(slowly). Build yourself up.
It doesn't matter to me if you carry C1 or C3. It's a free country(right now ) so carry how you are most comfortable.
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:22   #873
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Originally Posted by ArlenGunClub View Post
Hey guys,
I just got my CHL in TX and am deciding how I will carry my G23. I have heard arguments for keeping one in the chamber and keeping all in the clip, and I'm still stuck on the decision. I want y'alls opinions. I feel uneasy carrying one in the chamber as the glock has no external safety, but I don't want to waste time and possibly alert an enemy racking the slide if it ever comes down to it. Help me Glock Talk.
Here's what I do, the same as I would do for a duty weapon. Fully load a magazine, place the loaded magazine inside your sidearm while pointing her in a safe direction, chamber one round and then place your sidearm in your holster, next you will remove the magazine while keeping the sidearm in the holster and place an additional round in your magazine. replace magazine in your sidearm.

If your magazine holds 15 rounds, then you should have 15 + 1 round in the chamber. To not put a round in the chamber would be pointless, kind of like not putting gas in the empty tank of your car for a full tank trip.
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:36   #874
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To not put a round in the chamber would be pointless, kind of like not putting gas in the empty tank of your car for a full tank trip.
+1000. Same about as what I said. Try this. Have a friend or family member surprise you at "bad breath" distance sometime then think about how long it would take you to chamber a round let alone engage them.
I was surprised once and this hit home really hard. I've carried 1911's, Glocks, Sigs and more either cocked and locked or just ready to pull the trigger. If you are really concerned, carry a Sig or some other DA/SA weapon. Have a round chambered but you now have a longer DA pull to make it go bang.
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Old 03-26-2013, 18:52   #875
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If your magazine holds 15 rounds, then you should have 15 + 1 round in the chamber. To not put a round in the chamber would be pointless, kind of like not putting gas in the empty tank of your car for a full tank trip.
When you drive do you do so in the same way no matter what the road conditions? Do you keep your speed at 70 mph on the Interstate even during an ice storm because the law posts the speed limit at that rate? Or do you vary your driving depending upon the specific conditions?

The driving metaphor is applicable to CCW methods where one determines the conditions prevalent at any given time. In my case it's usually C3 but at times it's C1. If one varies one's vehicular speed according to conditions there's no reason to expect him/her to hold his/her CCW method no matter what the condition, as both firearms and vehicles are potentially deadly machines that can and do get beyond one's control.
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