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Old 03-06-2013, 11:30   #621
vandros
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After this long discussion, I'm thinking very seriously about having a Cominolli manual safety installed on one of my G19s. A shop in Texas (Ten Ring Precision) does these installations for $133, including the kit.

Adding the Comnolli safety does not void the Glock warranty. It does not affect the factory Glock safety mechanisms. It operates like a 1911 thumb safety with a distinct tactile sensation when it is snicked off. Having it put on by a gunsmith that is very familiar with the installation is worth the extra cost.

That's my thinking today. 1911 guys will understand why this enhancement to the Glock design makes sense. Maybe my next involvement in a C1 vs.C3 thread will have new insights to share.

SPECIAL FEATURES:
Fits all model Glock pistols.
Ergonomically designed and located.
Positive engagement and disengagement.
The safety has no effect on factory function, trigger pull or internal working of your Glock.
With manual safety engaged, all Glock passive safeties are locked in place.
Pistol can be loaded and unloaded with manual safety engaged, thus diminishing the chance of an unintentional discharge.
Long wearing, properly heat treated, stainless steel parts.
Durable flat black tactical finish.
The manufacturers warranty is not voided.
Lifetime warranty on parts and labor to the original customer when installed by Ten-Ring Precision, Inc.
Having read some more on this, Cominolli manual safety looks really attractive. Have you seen any video/photo illustration on how exactly it works with all other parts of glock pistol (how exactly it engages/disengages, etc.)? Cominolli says on their site and one gun reviewer (no idea about his credibility) that some police departments have adopted this feature. Any idea which specific departments?

If this thing works 100% all the time, I think it's worth really serious look. Have you ordered it yet?
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Last edited by vandros; 03-06-2013 at 11:34..
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:39   #622
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Originally Posted by vandros View Post
Having read some more on this, Cominolli manual safety looks really attractive. Have you seen any video/photo illustration on how exactly it works with all other parts of glock pistol (how exactly it engages/disengages, etc.)? Cominolli says on their site and one gun reviewer (no idea about his credibility) that some police departments have adopted this feature. Any idea which specific departments?

If this thing works 100% all the time, I think it's worth really serious look. Have you ordered it yet?
I recall Ayoob said it is a reasonable modification and there had been no reports of it failing and tying up the gun.

He is on GT in the GATE forums. Maybe he would be willing to revisit it.

Regards,
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:45   #623
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Originally Posted by vandros View Post
Having read some more on this, Cominolli manual safety looks really attractive. Have you seen any video/photo illustration on how exactly it works with all other parts of glock pistol (how exactly it engages/disengages, etc.)? Cominolli says on their site and one gun reviewer (no idea about his credibility) that some police departments have adopted this feature. Any idea which specific departments?

If this thing works 100% all the time, I think it's worth really serious look. Have you ordered it yet?
I'm sure Ten-Ring Precision will tell us which agencies have bought a manual safety for their Glocks.

I'm still trying to decide if I want to carry C1 with a safety. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that surprise attacks are avoidable by being alert and staying away from risky places at certain times. Maybe the C1 folks can convince me that I'm wrong.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 03-06-2013 at 11:46..
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:52   #624
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I recall Ayoob said it is a reasonable modification and there had been no reports of it failing and tying up the gun.

He is on GT in the GATE forums. Maybe he would be willing to revisit it.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
I've submitted my thread on this for his consideration. Really looking forward to his reply. I'll post here if/when I hear from him.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:54   #625
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I recall Ayoob said it is a reasonable modification and there had been no reports of it failing and tying up the gun.

He is on GT in the GATE forums. Maybe he would be willing to revisit it.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
I can't find the statements he supposedly made regarding the Cominolli safety which indicated LEOs who have their gun snatched would be safer if the bad guy has to look for a manual safety to fire the Glock. Again, this is hearsay, so it may be untrue.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 03-06-2013 at 11:57..
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:58   #626
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...I'm still trying to decide if I want to carry C1 with a safety. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that surprise attacks are avoidable by being alert and staying away from risky places at certain times...
I generally agree with you. But, if this feature makes glock as safe as one carried in c3 (and has zero effect on glock reliability), why not?
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:00   #627
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I can't find the statements he supposedly made regarding the Cominolli safety which indicated LEOs who have their gun snatched would be safer if the bad guy has to look for a manual safety to fire the Glock. Again, this is hearsay, so it may be untrue.
I actually think this might be the reason why these police departments don't want others to know they have this feature. Perhaps they want it to be a surprise to BG who snatches a glock out of their holster expecting it to have no such feature.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:05   #628
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Where and when might this scenario happen if the principles of situational awareness are followed in a disciplined way? If locations where such an attack would likely happen are avoided, how would this scenario be a plausible threat?

I'm challenging the reality of this kind of assault in the spirit of trying to understand the logical, factual basis of need for C1 preparedness. I'd like to get down to a straight forward, factual explanation for using such attack scenarios to justify the C1 carry mode. Somewhere there must be a substantive explanation beyond "it can happen any time, any where".

Outside of a home invasion, where or when might rape happen if SA/danger avoidance is carefully practiced? Other than parking lots, alleys, isolated park locations and other avoidable places, where are we vulnerable to surprise threats?

Again, if responsible people follow principles of situational awareness and purposefully avoid potential danger spots, when would such attacks happen?
If, maybe.... Again you are at a disadvantage if you do not carry with a round in the chamber. Accept it. Face two people at each about 7 yards from each other and give them Glocks. You have 2 minutes to make ready and then when the timer sounds it is kill or be killed. Do you think it would be wiser to leave the chamber empty and rack the slide after the timer goes off? It is just plain stupid at this point. Carry with an empty chamber. Please continue to do it your way.

Last edited by 1911pro; 03-06-2013 at 12:09..
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:36   #629
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If, maybe.... Again you are at a disadvantage if you do not carry with a round in the chamber. Accept it. Face two people at each about 7 yards from each other and give them Glocks. You have 2 minutes to make ready and then when the timer sounds it is kill or be killed. Do you think it would be wiser to leave the chamber empty and rack the slide after the timer goes off? It is just plain stupid at this point. Carry with an empty chamber. Please continue to do it your way.
Thanks.

I know you think this exercise is silly, but please explain why you think it is reasonable to believe you may actually be face-to-face with two guys intent on killing you with their Glocks.

What have you experienced, read on the net or in Ohio's crime report, learned through research, heard at a lecture or otherwise discovered that can be examined thoughtfully and logically to justify your belief that you and your family are at risk of a SURPRISE attack? Putting emotion and the chatter you've read on forums aside, what is the source of your decision to carry C1? Maybe it was a statement by your SD instructor. Maybe your cop friend gave you the advice. Where did your motivation for C1 come from? Is it something you've thought through in an analytical way?

You have taken a position here, and criticized others who choose a different carry mode, without explaining why, in intellectual terms, you have adopted C1. I'm just asking for you to explain why you chose C1 the way I've justified my choice of C3.

I look forward to your response.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 03-06-2013 at 12:45..
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:39   #630
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I can't find the statements he supposedly made regarding the Cominolli safety which indicated LEOs who have their gun snatched would be safer if the bad guy has to look for a manual safety to fire the Glock. Again, this is hearsay, so it may be untrue.
I read of one incident where that happened with an H&K P7 and I'm sure that it has happened with other guns that have safeties but it isn't something I would count on.

Most safeties are pretty intuitive so it might give you time to access a BUG but probably not much more.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:47   #631
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I will say that on an intellectual level I and a lot of others who have been carrying C1 Glocks for years regard them as perfectly safe when handled with the proper respect.

On a gut level more than a few of us are unwilling to carry a C1 Glock in the appendix carry position.

We could spend another 25 pages analyzing this also.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
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Last edited by happyguy; 03-06-2013 at 12:49..
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:52   #632
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Thanks.

I know you think this exercise is silly, but please explain why you think it is reasonable to believe you may actually be face-to-face with two guys intent on killing you with their Glocks.
I can't answer for 1911pro but I don't think that is an unreasonable scenario.

It happens every day. I'm glad you feel safe in your neighborhood but to be honest, evil can visit you anywhere. It visits people every day that thought they were safe.

They are the ones that get described as "unarmed victim".

Just like a few moments when you aren't 100% can lead to an AD, it can also lead to a lack of situation awarness at just the wrong time. None of us is 100% all the time.

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Old 03-06-2013, 12:54   #633
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I will say that on an intellectual level I and a lot of others who have been carrying C1 Glocks for years regard them as perfectly safe when handled with the proper respect.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
This may be the most revealing (and honest) answer of all.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 03-06-2013 at 12:55..
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:55   #634
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Thanks.

I know you think this exercise is silly, but please explain why you think it is reasonable to believe you may actually be face-to-face with two guys intent on killing you with their Glocks.

What have you experienced, read on the net or in Ohio's crime report, learned through research, heard at a lecture or otherwise discovered that can be examined thoughtfully and logically to justify your belief that you and your family are at risk of a SURPRISE attack? Putting emotion and the chatter you've read on forums aside, what is the source of your decision to carry C1? Maybe it was a statement by your SD instructor. Maybe your cop friend gave you the advice. Where did your motivation for C1 come from? Is it something you've thought through in an analytical way?

You have taken a position here, and criticized others who choose a different carry mode, without explaining why, in intellectual terms, you have adopted C1. I'm just asking for you to explain why you chose C1 the way I've justified my choice of C3.

I look forward to your response.
It was a made up senerio to show that it would be stupid to not take advantage of a round in the chamber. You may want to read it again. I myself do not need anyone to tell me if something is right or wrong. It is just common sense. You cannot teach it.
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Old 03-06-2013, 14:24   #635
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It was a made up senerio to show that it would be stupid to not take advantage of a round in the chamber. You may want to read it again. I myself do not need anyone to tell me if something is right or wrong. It is just common sense. You cannot teach it.
Thanks.

I can't debate/discuss a topic with someone who refuses to explain his position with concrete, logical points. Your explanation that "common sense" is the reason for C1 falls far short of an intellectually honest response. Should someone new to carrying a handgun follow this 'common sense' guideline if a Glock is the gun he's starting with?

On the other hand, happyguy's statement that he is absolutely comfortable with his ability to carry C1 safely rings true to me. From previous posts I know he is safety conscious, mature, been carrying for many years without incident, and he clearly understands the responsibility and accountability that goes with C1.

A lot of folks who argue for C1 haven't really tried to figure out why they do it. That's why they can't give honest, insightful answers for their choice. They use terms like "stupid not to have a round in the chamber" and its "common sense" to carry C1 to mask the fact they actually don't know why they do it.

Vandros- I'm still thinkin' about a Cominolli safety. I suspect Mas will be uncomfortable commenting about a manual safety in the context of a C1/C3 discussion. He's obviously an expert SD teacher who endorses C1 for people in his advanced training classes. Since lots of semi-autos are designed with a manual safety, he may say the Cominolli is just fine.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 03-06-2013 at 17:48..
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Old 03-06-2013, 14:59   #636
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Thanks.

I can't debate/discuss a topic with someone who doesn't want to explain their position with concrete, logical points. Your explanation that "common sense" is the reason for C1 falls far short of an intellectually honest response.

On the other hand, happyguy's statement that he is absolutely comfortable with his ability to carry C1 safely rings true to me. From previous posts I know he is safety conscious, mature, been carrying for years without incident, and he clearly understands the responsibility and accountability that goes with C1.

A lot of folks who argue for C1 haven't really tried to figure out why they do it. That's why they can't give honest, insightful answers for their choice. They use terms like "stupid not to have a round in the chamber" and its "common sense" to carry C1 to mask the fact they actually don't know why they do it.

I'm still thinkin' about a Cominolli safety. I suspect Mas will be uncomfortable commenting about a manual safety in the context of a C1/C3 discussion. He's obviously an expert SD teacher who endorses C1 for people in his advanced training classes.
My god man this is not rocket science. I carry with a round in the chamber because it is faster and more reliable to draw from a holster concealed that it is to try and rack the slide doing the same. Venture out into the real world and do some timed shooting yourself and see which is slower. Again get some training and let it answer your questions.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:22   #637
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My god man this is not rocket science. I carry with a round in the chamber because it is faster and more reliable to draw from a holster concealed that it is to try and rack the slide doing the same. Venture out into the real world and do some timed shooting yourself and see which is slower. Again get some training and let it answer your questions.
You're absolutely right, it ain't rocket science. Somehow, however, it just seems the decision to carry a weapon chambered, without a safety, should be based on more than "it is faster and more reliable".

Incidentally, I've skated through 72 years in the real world without being attacked, being threatened or knowing anyone personally who was assaulted with a weapon. Based on my life experience, I'd have a hard time explaining why its necessary or appropriate to carry a Glock chambered for self defense. Maybe your experience has been different than mine.

Anyway, I sincerely hope your life over many years to come is as safe as mine has been. Make your SD decisions according to your judgement and your conscience, and pray you never have to pull the trigger. Good luck.

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Old 03-06-2013, 16:30   #638
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You're absolutely right, it ain't rocket science. Somehow, however, it just seems the decision to carry a weapon chambered without a safety should be based on more than "it is faster and more reliable".

Incidentally, I've skated through 72 years in the real world without being attacked, being threatened or knowing anyone personally who was assaulted with a weapon. Based on my life experience, I'd have a hard time explaining why its necessary or appropriate to carry a Glock chambered for defense against attack. Maybe your experience has been different than mine.

Anyway, I sincerely hope your life over many years to come is as safe as mine has been. Make your SD decisions according to your judgement and your conscience, and pray you never have to pull the trigger. Good luck.
Thanks. Good luck to you also and take care.
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Old 03-06-2013, 16:33   #639
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I recall Ayoob said it is a reasonable modification and there had been no reports of it failing and tying up the gun.

He is on GT in the GATE forums. Maybe he would be willing to revisit it.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
Here's Mr. Ayoob's reply.
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Old 03-06-2013, 17:42   #640
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Here's Mr. Ayoob's reply.
Thanks for asking Mas to comment. His thoughts about the Cominolli safety are important to my consideration of whether or not to try one. Hearing from a noted authority that they have proven to be reliable is pretty persuasive.
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