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Old 03-09-2013, 10:36   #701
1911pro
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Originally Posted by SevenSixtyTwo View Post
One of the points our CC instructor emphasized was, don't practice pulling the trigger unless you're at the range with live fire. That way you won't have an "auto pilot" trigger pull AD like you had.
This. Unless you are lucky enough to have a range at home.

Last edited by 1911pro; 03-09-2013 at 10:52..
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:49   #702
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Please quote where I said that. Yes I pull the trigger on all of our Glocks to take the slide off. There's a difference between taking the gun apart for servicing and making a habit of dry firing for practice. But, like I said, it's perfectly ok with me if you have a different opinion. It's my opinion that it's setting up the scenario for an AD. Therefor, "I" don't do it. Thanks but I don't know you from Adam, therefor I don't know if I'm a better man than anyone here. Nor do I know what your definition of a better man is. Seems like conjecture to me. I practice for SA and proficiency. Speed isn't my strong point in anything I do. Even shotgun course competitions leave me grouped with the slow guys.
My point was that you could have an ND just by stripping it down if YOU do not do your job. Same as dry firing. If you are not practicing as you CC then you are doing yourself a great disservice. My point was that you should be drawing from concealment against a timer, firing multiple shots and see what you do. Not jerking the trigger on one slow fire round after another with all the time in world is not the same. It was not about who is a better man, it is about what kind of training do you do.
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:52   #703
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These examples of people having NDs while dry firing and cleaning and handing the gun indoors doing maintenance beg the question: what does this have to do with C1 carry?

When I am carrying I am not handling my gun, I am not pulling the trigger (unless I want it to go off), I am not doing anything that could cause an ND.

When I am DONE carrying is when an ND might happen, and in that case, carrying C3 doesn't help you. In fact, there is a very reasonable argument that people who think "well, I am C3, my gun never has one in the pipe" are more likely to be surprised by one. After all, NDs happen to people who "thought the gun was unloaded" and never to people who "thought it was loaded." (If you thought the gun is loaded, you aren't pulling the trigger).

I guess I don't really see what gun handling has to do with gun carrying. It seems that the argument becomes "in order to make sure I don't accidentally fire a shot at home while handling my gun, I will jeopardize my safety when not at home and not handling the gun."

Daily I... 1)load my gun, 2) carefully holster it, 3) carry it, then later 4) I might carefully unholster it and 5) unload the gun. I am not going to deny the possibility of an ND with any shooter. Nonetheless, that is going to happen during 1, 2, 4, or 5.... not #3.

If you are worried about an ND, then you need to train and/or address whatever deficiencies are part of your routine in 1/2/4/5. In my opinion, carrying C3 doesn't reduce the risk of ND in those other stages. If anything, it may increase it because the operator starts with the dangerous assumption that the gun was never loaded to begin with.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:06   #704
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Well stated, but considering who you were responding to and the others like him, it was a complete waste of your time. It is about as productive as talking to a rock.

I am reminded of the old adage; "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

I will not waste my time trying to convince the proverbial "rock" of the error of its ways, some people only learn "the hard way."

RJ
RJ, I've never come across anyone more stubborn than you. Your "horse to water" statement applies equally to the guy you see in the mirror. Being determined is a virtue if the energy that comes from it is expressed in positive ways. Some of your discussion tactics aren't so positive.

Nobody who endorses C3 in this thread hopes to change your mind or 1911pro's mind. You claim to be competent, and I take you for your word. Our rock headedness is primarily defensive in nature, and I would hope newcomers pick up on the notion that C1 out of the gate with a Glock is a bad start. You, on the other hand, are ruffled because you led us to your pond and we aren't ready to drink from it.

You may not appreciate the posts about NDs, but real examples of smart people doing stupid things tend to make a better, longer lasting impression. And, NDs do happen to smart, experienced people.

The carry mode decision is personal and it should be made thoughtfully, not because someone on the Internet says there is only one 'right' way. The decision should be based on consideration of need and competence, not cliches offered in one-line posts.

Posts made by folks who have actually been attacked provide real-life texture to the discussion. The truth is, not many people here can say they have been attacked, particularly in a way that required C1 to save their bacon. Most of the arguments for C1 are theoretical, based on the famous "21 feet in 2 seconds drill", or the sage advice of a SD instructor who has never been in a gun fight, or taken from an article written by someone who earns a living writing articles, or a 'study' to measure one quick draw method versus another. Nevertheless, your decision, regardless of why you made it, is your call and no one can say its wrong.

I don't quarrel with C1 if the person is truly competent and believes its necessary. I will always have misgivings about carrying a Glock chambered, but thats my problem. I will always argue that a person new to CC should not start out carrying a Glock chambered. I will always speak out about the reality of NDs caused by human error, because it happens frequently to people who honestly believe it will never happen to them since they do everything right...their gun handling is always by the book.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 03-10-2013 at 10:46..
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:13   #705
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Originally Posted by 1911pro View Post
1911 safety against racking the slide with your average shooter. Bet the safety wins.
I'm sure we all know that manual safety's can fail...here' a pic of my buddies 1911 Springfield...he was teaching a gun safety course when it busted on him--he was actually in the middle of telling the class that a manual safety doesn't always mean the gun is "safe." Another reason I like my internal "safety" of the Glock design.

Before:

Carry Issues

After:
Carry Issues
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:21   #706
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Originally Posted by Zeebra724 View Post
I'm sure we all know that manual safety's can fail...here' a pic of my buddies 1911 Springfield...he was teaching a gun safety course when it busted on him--he was actually in the middle of telling the class that a manual safety doesn't always mean the gun is "safe." Another reason I like my internal "safety" of the Glock design.

Carry Issues
Yep. Cheap MIM parts. I have two Springfield Professionals and still carry a Glock.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:50   #707
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Watched the video and then read the article. My reply was geared toward the video. The link I posted is for your second article link.
In regard to the video I was only concerned with how quickly a slide can be racked. I normally use a Modified Weaver stance and when I practice racking I'm not holding the gun "Keyser Soze" style sideways but more at a 45 degree angle that's more natural. I'm sure experts who favor different methods can pick apart any system, based upon their own opinions.

The message of both links is that there are Israeli civilians and professional Israeli military experts. The conscript carries in the safest overall method consistent with the overall safety of everyone in society while the Mossad agent carries a different way based upon his/her training and specialized expertise.

There are certainly some trained, experienced experts on Glock Talk who would fall under the Mossad designation but probably far fewer than what a casual reader might think. The rest of us are for all practical reasons conscripts who need to recognize that someone advising us to, "become a Mossad agent like me" isn't realistic for a number of reasons.

Some people have asked the readers to think about the dire consequences of dying because we weren't properly prepared to defend ourself with our carry weapon. Well, given the political climate in this day and age think about the consequences of a ND/AD that produced serious injury or perhaps death. Do you think the political factions who broadcast their agenda of curbing or denying our individual Second Amendment rights would pass up an opportunity to deliver another example of "cowboy mentality" in their zeal to void the US Constitution? Think about George Zimmermann, even though his situation bears no resemblance to this discussion except tangenitally. And at the very least think about the consequences of having been the careless author of a serious injury to a loved one or bystander.

I have no intention of becoming the poster child for the Brady Campaign any more than I have the desire to make a mistake. Both the Mossad agent and the conscript play a valuable role in Israeli society and each has a method for carrying a handgun. I hope all CCW holders appreciate the responsibilities each one of us has in carrying a handgun, and that collectively we safely augment the role of LEO in making criminals wonder who might be around to thwart their criminal plans. Given the unlikely chance any single civilian CCW holder will ever have to draw his/her weapon I prefer to remain at this time in C3 carry status unless conditions warrant C1.
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:55   #708
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In regard to the video I was only concerned with how quickly a slide can be racked. I normally use a Modified Weaver stance and when I practice racking I'm not holding the gun "Keyser Soze" style sideways but more at a 45 degree angle that's more natural. I'm sure experts who favor different methods can pick apart any system, based upon their own opinions.

The message of both links is that there are Israeli civilians and professional Israeli military experts. The conscript carries in the safest overall method consistent with the overall safety of everyone in society while the Mossad agent carries a different way based upon his/her training and specialized expertise.

There are certainly some trained, experienced experts on Glock Talk who would fall under the Mossad designation but probably far fewer than what a casual reader might think. The rest of us are for all practical reasons conscripts who need to recognize that someone advising us to, "become a Mossad agent like me" isn't realistic for a number of reasons.

Some people have asked the readers to think about the dire consequences of dying because we weren't properly prepared to defend ourself with our carry weapon. Well, given the political climate in this day and age think about the consequences of a ND/AD that produced serious injury or perhaps death. Do you think the political factions who broadcast their agenda of curbing or denying our individual Second Amendment rights would pass up an opportunity to deliver another example of "cowboy mentality" in their zeal to void the US Constitution? Think about George Zimmermann, even though his situation bears no resemblance to this discussion except tangenitally. And at the very least think about the consequences of having been the careless author of a serious injury to a loved one or bystander.

I have no intention of becoming the poster child for the Brady Campaign any more than I have the desire to make a mistake. Both the Mossad agent and the conscript play a valuable role in Israeli society and each has a method for carrying a handgun. I hope all CCW holders appreciate the responsibilities each one of us has in carrying a handgun, and that collectively we safely augment the role of LEO in making criminals wonder who might be around to thwart their criminal plans. Given the unlikely chance any single civilian CCW holder will ever have to draw his/her weapon I prefer to remain at this time in C3 carry status unless conditions warrant C1.
What the Israeli military is doing has nothing to do with what is the best choice for my personal safety. I have invested in quality training and made my own decision based on my abilities and what is best to protect myself and family. To all I say get off the computer sometimes and get training from a quality instructor, practice what they teach you and then decide what is best for you. In the end you may even be surprised by what you can accomplish.
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Old 03-09-2013, 14:15   #709
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Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post
In regard to the video I was only concerned with how quickly a slide can be racked. I normally use a Modified Weaver stance and when I practice racking I'm not holding the gun "Keyser Soze" style sideways but more at a 45 degree angle that's more natural. I'm sure experts who favor different methods can pick apart any system, based upon their own opinions.

The message of both links is that there are Israeli civilians and professional Israeli military experts. The conscript carries in the safest overall method consistent with the overall safety of everyone in society while the Mossad agent carries a different way based upon his/her training and specialized expertise.

There are certainly some trained, experienced experts on Glock Talk who would fall under the Mossad designation but probably far fewer than what a casual reader might think. The rest of us are for all practical reasons conscripts who need to recognize that someone advising us to, "become a Mossad agent like me" isn't realistic for a number of reasons.

Some people have asked the readers to think about the dire consequences of dying because we weren't properly prepared to defend ourself with our carry weapon. Well, given the political climate in this day and age think about the consequences of a ND/AD that produced serious injury or perhaps death. Do you think the political factions who broadcast their agenda of curbing or denying our individual Second Amendment rights would pass up an opportunity to deliver another example of "cowboy mentality" in their zeal to void the US Constitution? Think about George Zimmermann, even though his situation bears no resemblance to this discussion except tangenitally. And at the very least think about the consequences of having been the careless author of a serious injury to a loved one or bystander.

I have no intention of becoming the poster child for the Brady Campaign any more than I have the desire to make a mistake. Both the Mossad agent and the conscript play a valuable role in Israeli society and each has a method for carrying a handgun. I hope all CCW holders appreciate the responsibilities each one of us has in carrying a handgun, and that collectively we safely augment the role of LEO in making criminals wonder who might be around to thwart their criminal plans. Given the unlikely chance any single civilian CCW holder will ever have to draw his/her weapon I prefer to remain at this time in C3 carry status unless conditions warrant C1.
I haven't studied the Israeli method extensively, and I don't pretend to be a competent practitioner of it. I do believe it to be very effective when used by well trained folks, based on my limited reading.

This post rings true to me regarding justification of C3 for those of us whose analysis leads to a more conservative carry mode. It helps explain why we are comfortable with C3 while others see the need to use C1. After all, we are all just trying to make the right call based on our personal situation.

Good people can disagree, as demonstrated throughout this lengthy thread. But the number of posts and, more importantly, the 21,000 views, demonstrate there are a lot of folks thinking about carry mode. The OP and many others are new or somewhat new to CC, so the pros and cons of both sides should provide plenty of food for thought.

This thread may die today or go on longer, but I'll keep chimin' in as long as its constructive. So far, we've managed to stay pretty civil. I think its a good exercise in using our brains, especially for us old peckerwoods, as well as making points that are germane to the topic for others to consider.

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Old 03-09-2013, 14:29   #710
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Originally Posted by 1911pro View Post
What the Israeli military is doing has nothing to do with what is the best choice for my personal safety. I have invested in quality training and made my own decision based on my abilities and what is best to protect myself and family. To all I say get off the computer sometimes and get training from a quality instructor, practice what they teach you and then decide what is best for you. In the end you may even be surprised by what you can accomplish.
Yes, you've made your choice consistent with your experience and circumstances. And so have I even if my choice isn't the one you'd make. Even then, at some point in the future you and others may persuade me to carry C1.

I'd really like to have the time and financial wherewithal to become a pistolero, but that ain't in the cards at my seasoned age and with a teenager about to enter college this Fall unless I hit the Lotto or I finally locate the 1,000 shares of Berkshire-Hathaway stock I bought back in 1975.

Besides, even if I did undertake the time and training necessary that wouldn't change the random chance I'd ever be involved in a life-or-death encounter although I willingly admit it would change my odds of surviving one.

This is why I made the point I did in my last post; there are civilians who contribute to the welfare of society and themselves but need to remain mindful of the pitfalls of carrying a deadly weapon and then there are experts like Gabe Suarez, Mas Ayoob, 1911pro, the Mossad, etc ... , who have years of hands-on experience with dangerous terrorists and criminals operating at all levels of the dark side of humanity. I might add these experts didn't arrive at their current status after one or two courses, but that's just a guess on my part.

The best I can hope for at my stage of the game is to follow closely the political and environmental climates I occupy and pray that I don't become a hindrance to individual freedom and liberty while at the same time avail myself of the means to protect myself, my loved ones, and society at large. That, and finding the time and resourses to think through what I wish to accomplish each time I go to the range instead of just firing off a set number of rounds.

And at this point let me again get up on my virtual soapbox and say there's a whole lot more involved in successful self-defense than just carrying C1 (or whatever method one chooses). A whole lot more; and debating a single issue (this valuable thread, for example) causes one to think about and evaluate just one aspect involved in our responsibilities.

I don't believe I'll ever arrive at the same level of handgun competence as you, 1911pro, but let's not forget that in the overall scheme of things here in America we're both on the same page.
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Old 03-09-2013, 14:48   #711
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Yes, you've made your choice consistent with your experience and circumstances. And so have I even if my choice isn't the one you'd make. Even then, at some point in the future you and others may persuade me to carry C1.

I'd really like to have the time and financial wherewithal to become a pistolero, but that ain't in the cards at my seasoned age and with a teenager about to enter college this Fall unless I hit the Lotto or I finally locate the 1,000 shares of Berkshire-Hathaway stock I bought back in 1975.

Besides, even if I did undertake the time and training necessary that wouldn't change the random chance I'd ever be involved in a life-or-death encounter although I willingly admit it would change my odds of surviving one.

This is why I made the point I did in my last post; there are civilians who contribute to the welfare of society and themselves but need to remain mindful of the pitfalls of carrying a deadly weapon and then there are experts like Gabe Suarez, Mas Ayoob, 1911pro, the Mossad, etc ... , who have years of hands-on experience with dangerous terrorists and criminals operating at all levels of the dark side of humanity. I might add these experts didn't arrive at their current status after one or two courses, but that's just a guess on my part.

The best I can hope for at my stage of the game is to follow closely the political and environmental climates I occupy and pray that I don't become a hindrance to individual freedom and liberty while at the same time avail myself of the means to protect myself, my loved ones, and society at large. That, and finding the time and resourses to think through what I wish to accomplish each time I go to the range instead of just firing off a set number of rounds.

And at this point let me again get up on my virtual soapbox and say there's a whole lot more involved in successful self-defense than just carrying C1 (or whatever method one chooses). A whole lot more; and debating a single issue (this valuable thread, for example) causes one to think about and evaluate just one aspect involved in our responsibilities.

I don't believe I'll ever arrive at the same level of handgun competence as you, 1911pro, but let's not forget that in the overall scheme of things here in America we're both on the same page.
For a rocket scientist, you have a way of speaking your piece in a pretty down-to-earth way. In agreeing with you, I'm not disagreeing with folks who choose C1. Good post.

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Old 03-09-2013, 15:06   #712
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Yes, you've made your choice consistent with your experience and circumstances. And so have I even if my choice isn't the one you'd make. Even then, at some point in the future you and others may persuade me to carry C1.

I'd really like to have the time and financial wherewithal to become a pistolero, but that ain't in the cards at my seasoned age and with a teenager about to enter college this Fall unless I hit the Lotto or I finally locate the 1,000 shares of Berkshire-Hathaway stock I bought back in 1975.

Besides, even if I did undertake the time and training necessary that wouldn't change the random chance I'd ever be involved in a life-or-death encounter although I willingly admit it would change my odds of surviving one.

This is why I made the point I did in my last post; there are civilians who contribute to the welfare of society and themselves but need to remain mindful of the pitfalls of carrying a deadly weapon and then there are experts like Gabe Suarez, Mas Ayoob, 1911pro, the Mossad, etc ... , who have years of hands-on experience with dangerous terrorists and criminals operating at all levels of the dark side of humanity. I might add these experts didn't arrive at their current status after one or two courses, but that's just a guess on my part.

The best I can hope for at my stage of the game is to follow closely the political and environmental climates I occupy and pray that I don't become a hindrance to individual freedom and liberty while at the same time avail myself of the means to protect myself, my loved ones, and society at large. That, and finding the time and resourses to think through what I wish to accomplish each time I go to the range instead of just firing off a set number of rounds.

And at this point let me again get up on my virtual soapbox and say there's a whole lot more involved in successful self-defense than just carrying C1 (or whatever method one chooses). A whole lot more; and debating a single issue (this valuable thread, for example) causes one to think about and evaluate just one aspect involved in our responsibilities.

I don't believe I'll ever arrive at the same level of handgun competence as you, 1911pro, but let's not forget that in the overall scheme of things here in America we're both on the same page.
Don't put me up with Mas Ayoob. I am just an average Joe who has come from a martial arts back ground. I am also an average shooter at the very best. I am lucky to have trained with two great guys for the last 4-5 years. One is a VSM instructor and the other is head of training for a local Sherrifs dept. I have attended two home defense classes at the Ft Harmar shoot house with Ken Hackathorn and one with Larry Vickers. I cannot say enough good things about these people. If you get a chance do yourself a favor and take a class. Here is a link to my review of Mr.Hackathorn's two day class.
http://aar.greygrouptraining.com/201...rietta-oh.aspx
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Old 03-09-2013, 18:12   #713
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I'm sure we all know that manual safety's can fail...here' a pic of my buddies 1911 Springfield...he was teaching a gun safety course when it busted on him--he was actually in the middle of telling the class that a manual safety doesn't always mean the gun is "safe." Another reason I like my internal "safety" of the Glock design.

Before:

Carry Issues

After:
Carry Issues
Please tell me you are not saying the Glock internal safeties can't fail.

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Old 03-09-2013, 19:17   #714
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Please tell me you are not saying the Glock internal safeties can't fail.

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No, don't worry...anything that man creates can fail...I just like the track record better of Glock's internal safety than the records of other outside/manual safeties...and you and I are the real "safeties" anyway. :-)
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:06   #715
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What the Israeli military is doing has nothing to do with what is the best choice for my personal safety.
I agree with this. Also, what gun or caliber a particular Fed agency carries has little to do with what I carry.

But how, what, and why they carry as they do is useful information that helps me to make my decisions. Also each of us processes that information based on our personal knowledge base, unique experiences and unique situation.

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Old 03-10-2013, 07:07   #716
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No, don't worry...anything that man creates can fail...I just like the track record better of Glock's internal safety than the records of other outside/manual safeties...and you and I are the real "safeties" anyway. :-)
Thanks

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Old 03-10-2013, 11:34   #717
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No, don't worry...anything that man creates can fail...I just like the track record better of Glock's internal safety than the records of other outside/manual safeties...
Also, what Glock creates can be messed with.

I learned recently that a common parts-change modification can affect the safe operation of Glocks. Changing the firing pin striker spring from the OEM 5 lb. spring to one rated at 4 lb. can result in the trigger failing to reset fully forward to engage the safety.

The 4 lb. striker spring supposedly helps with a lighter trigger pull. However, it may not be strong enough to return the trigger all the way forward.

I'm wondering if lots of folks do mods on Glocks to lighten trigger pull for CC, or if its only done for competition. It sounds like a recipe for disaster if such changes are made to carry weapons.

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Old 03-10-2013, 12:18   #718
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Also, what Glock creates can be messed with.

I learned recently that a common parts-change modification can affect the safe operation of Glocks. Changing the firing pin striker spring from the OEM 5 lb. spring to one rated at 4 lb. can result in the trigger failing to reset fully forward to engage the safety.

The 4 lb. striker spring supposedly helps with a lighter trigger pull. However, it may not be strong enough to return the trigger all the way forward.

I'm wondering if lots of folks do mods on Glocks to lighten trigger pull for CC, or if its only done for competition. It sounds like a recipe for disaster if such changes are made to carry weapons.
I believe most folk who carry do not modify the inner working of the weapon. THey may add external items to their weapons, such as lasser, flashlight, graphics on plates etc.

But inner workings, the numbers are pretty low.
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:37   #719
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1. Racking a slide is a gross motor function, much easier to perform (I've read) under extreme duress compared to a relatively fine motor skill such as remembering to click the manual safety to the "off" position when drawing a weapon. Can carrying C3 result in getting the defender killed? Sure, so can fumbling with a manual safety.
This one statement alone has me giving second thought to my decision to purchase my P938. I actually feel better about carrying the G26 both C0 and C3 than the apprehensive feeling I have about the 1911 style P938. The P938 melts in the pocket though.
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:54   #720
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Also, what Glock creates can be messed with.

I learned recently that a common parts-change modification can affect the safe operation of Glocks. Changing the firing pin striker spring from the OEM 5 lb. spring to one rated at 4 lb. can result in the trigger failing to reset fully forward to engage the safety.

The 4 lb. striker spring supposedly helps with a lighter trigger pull. However, it may not be strong enough to return the trigger all the way forward.

I'm wondering if lots of folks do mods on Glocks to lighten trigger pull for CC, or if its only done for competition. It sounds like a recipe for disaster if such changes are made to carry weapons.
Yes. Lots of people run a 3.5 pound connector safely . I run the stock connector in my gen 3.
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Old 03-10-2013, 13:36   #721
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Originally Posted by 1911pro View Post
Yes. Lots of people run a 3.5 pound connector safely . I run the stock connector in my gen 3.
How much does the 4 lb. striker spring change, by itself, reduce trigger pull?

I understand the striker spring change along with the 3.5 lb. connector reduces pull weight to 3.5 lb. Does that make the Glock trigger pull weight about the same or lower than a standard out-of-the-box 1911?

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 03-10-2013 at 13:58..
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Old 03-10-2013, 15:17   #722
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Please tell me you are not saying the Glock internal safeties can't fail.

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So are you saying you wouldn't carry a Glock in condition 0? Is there a serious issue with the striker fired system & how or what would fail causing a ad?
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Old 03-10-2013, 15:30   #723
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Carry IssuesCarry IssuesCarry IssuesCarry Issues


Carry or don't carry a gun.
Carry or don't carry bullets with that gun.
Carry bullets, but only in the box and not in the magazine.
Carry with the bullets in the magazine, but leave the gun at home.
Carry a gun with one in the chamber, but leave the firing pin at home.
Carry a large rock and don't carry a gun at all.
Just say no to drugs.
Just stay home and do some real work on that bunker in the back yard.



But really, carrying a gun, having bullets, having them in the gun, and worrying about whether you have one in the chamber or not is such a minor and trivial concern, that it should be seen as a personal choice. Most people that carry one as part of their profession carry one in the chamber when outside the wire. Do whatever you want, and be happy about it.

If you've made a choice to carry one in the chamber or not, and that choice makes you uncomfortable, try it the other way for a while and see if you like that way better.
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Old 03-10-2013, 16:08   #724
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"...carrying a gun, having bullets, having them in the gun, and worrying about whether you have one in the chamber or not is such a minor and trivial concern..."
Thanks, Doc. I just got my CC license Friday and I bought my first gun, a Glock 19, Saturday. I want to carry like the guys at GT recommend, and one on the chamber seems most popular. Many say its the only way to carry a Glock. I'm just glad to know carry mode isn't a big deal. See ya later, I'm headed to the mall for my first CC outing.

I know perfectly well what you mean, Doc. Others may not.

Actually, I appreciate your post. The message is spot on for folks who have some experience.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 03-10-2013 at 18:25..
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Old 03-10-2013, 17:06   #725
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So i go out and patrol my property in the moonless darkness with my trusty tac light mounted 10/22. As i'm clearing each area i notice what looks like movement in the corner of my eye. Sure enough, here comes that dog... ten feet away and closing... a huge male Great Dane mixed with ??? hound... trying to sneak up behind me...

Leading with the barrel of the gun and flashlight, i step back with my right foot, pivoting on my left, and meet the dogs challenge with a "Hello there... time for you to go home."

This dog is a monster... almost as big as Godzilla... 10 feet away... challenging my authority... and all i had in my hands was this, now silly, little 10/22... WHICH btw, i had NOT yet racked chambered a round as i keep my long gun chambers empty until "needed".

Why didn't i think of racking one in at that moment? Because i wasn't thinking about it... i was facing the monster... realizing that that, large as it was, that dog was too jumpy and moving way too quick to hit with that .22.

But, at that moment, because of the time factors involved, all i could think of was holding my ground, keeping that gun with flashlight pointed in the dogs face, and meeting his mouth with the barrel of that gun and pulling the trigger if it attacked. Come to think of it a bayonet would have come in handy at that moment.

Lucky for me standing my ground worked and the dog thought best to move away toward its home... prompting me to say; 'Good dog... keep going... go home...' but the dog kept stopping and turning back toward me... prompting me to say; 'Go home or you are going to die... GO HOME...' as i kicked up the brightness on the tac light and hit "strobe"... the strobe immediately got the dog moving away again... good.

But, boy did i feel stupid... standing there after all that and i still didn't have a round racked into the chamber... although i did have a Glock 29 on my hip with a round up the pipe and 19 more behind it... i still didn't have one ready to go in the gun i had in my hands that i was actually using at the moment i needed it to be there... and i was HOLDING THE WRONG GUN... EMPTY... except for the mag.

Next time i'm bringing the shotgun and the first thing i'm doing is pumping in a 00 buck.

Moral of the story; If you wait til the moment of an attack to charge your gun it's more than likely too late.

If that dog would have charged, the thing i would have most likely done is shoved the barrel in the face/mouth of the dog and got a *click*. Then, right or wrong, i would have tried to hold the dog back with the 10/22 like a stick and because it had the light on it and i would have gone for the G29.

More than likely i would have gotten chewed a few times before i got the G29 effective and stopped the dog. Maybe i would have slipped in the dark and, overwhelmed, the dog the best of me... and earned a Darwin Award in the process.

Next time i'm bringing the shotgun for the lead, and i think i might just get and attach a bayonet to the end of it... i'm really starting to like that idea... yeah... a bayonet.... that's the ticket!
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