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Old 02-17-2013, 13:43   #321
HunterG23
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Originally Posted by ArlenGunClub View Post
Hey guys,
I just got my CHL in TX and am deciding how I will carry my G23. I have heard arguments for keeping one in the chamber and keeping all in the clip, and I'm still stuck on the decision. I want y'alls opinions. I feel uneasy carrying one in the chamber as the glock has no external safety, but I don't want to waste time and possibly alert an enemy racking the slide if it ever comes down to it. Help me Glock Talk.
I feel for you. When I first started carrying, having one in the pipe freaked me out too. It took some time, and even changing to a gun that has a safety. Even with the safety I still managed to come close to shooting my bum. A good holster preferably kydex would be your friend if you want to carry hot. I carry hot now and always will. Get some good training and I bet you will get over it. Also being afraid to carry hot might also be a good indication that you highly value life and it makes you realize that you may one day have to really use your gun. The only use of a gun is to kill. Perhaps some martial arts training and a good can of mace would serve you well instead?
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Old 02-17-2013, 22:04   #322
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1) The Glock's safety is in the trigger. Get *very* acquainted with this, and you may find your hesitation will go away. The factory trigger is extremely predictable to the point that you can precisely predict when a bullet will leave the chamber.
2) Solve #1 and you can then leave one in the chamber (called +1). Go to a gun basics class that allows you to bring your own weapon. Follow their rules on how to bring it in, and bring more than the required number of practice rounds. A good class will be small enough you can get personal attention on things that you need it, but won't keep you waiting too long for things you are already comfortable.
3) Spend regular range time with your Glock, and annually take a refresher course, or a step up to further hone your interests and stay sharp. If you don't use it, you can get sloppy.
4) Carrying is more than just a holster. This gets back to the basics class that will introduce you into carry styles and keeping yourself and other safe. Figure out your style and then the holster choices will narrow. I personally draw with my strong arm, from my weak side (aka cross draw style). There's an extra factor of safety in varying situations I have to keep in mind (not just others).

This is the tip of the iceberg but it will help you with your dilemma of comfort.

Glocks are VERY safe. Not that you want to drop one, but accidentally dropping one will not cause a discharge. What you see in the movies is not true if you have seen it to the contrary. That said, you not only have to put your index finger on the safety that's in the trigger, you have to depress it to a point of resistence...and only at that point are you actually engaging the trigger that will fire the weapon. There's some good overall distance that the 5.5lb. trigger allows you to change your mind, and getting acquainted with just this feature will make you confident and in control of your weapon. Until you cover this, I would not carry and would not go to the range without supervision. It's just that critical.

Good luck...once you go through what I mentioned, you will very *very* glad you did!
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:59   #323
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Originally Posted by SevenSixtyTwo View Post
If you can hold a Glock with one hand, you can easily rack the slide on just about anything, belt, table edge...
Please try it sometime... and remember, for the purpose of training, you cannot use your non-dominant hand or arm in any way. Now, try training to put one in the tube with your non-dominant hand only. Remember, use only your non-dominant hand and do not use your dominant hand or arm in any way.

If you're honest, you'll admit that having to first un-holster your gun, and then having to chamber a round would take way too much time given the right "manure"HTF circumstances.

Simply put, if you CC a Glock with a holster, lock and load.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:18   #324
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:04   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlockFanWA View Post
If carrying one in the chamber of a Glock makes you uneasy, why did you get a Glock?

The Glock has an "external safety", it is called the trigger. Keep your finger off of that safety till you are ready to fire.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:06   #326
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Originally Posted by SevenSixtyTwo View Post
If you can hold a Glock with one hand, you can easily rack the slide on just about anything, belt, table edge...


Maybe, with no fully loaded magazine in place.......
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Old 02-18-2013, 17:19   #327
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Originally Posted by Laslo View Post
... In the unfortunate event that you are attacked you will be taken off guard in such a way that your reaction time and what you do to react, might make the difference between life and death.

Do you feel good with that?

Laslo
Great post Laslo, we learned it as being called, "retaking the initiative."
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Old 02-18-2013, 19:15   #328
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Originally Posted by Glockdude1 View Post


Maybe, with no fully loaded magazine in place.......
Why would you say that? A loaded mag isn't going to change the spring rate of the slide. You might find yourself in a position to need to rack a round single handed some day.




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Old 02-18-2013, 19:24   #329
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Please try it sometime... and remember, for the purpose of training, you cannot use your non-dominant hand or arm in any way. Now, try training to put one in the tube with your non-dominant hand only. Remember, use only your non-dominant hand and do not use your dominant hand or arm in any way.

If you're honest, you'll admit that having to first un-holster your gun, and then having to chamber a round would take way too much time given the right "manure"HTF circumstances.

Simply put, if you CC a Glock with a holster, lock and load.
I've never said otherwise. If I have, please quote. On the other hand, if you don't have time to chamber a round, there's an even better chance you've lost your chance to even draw from concealment. SA fail. I carry C1 but, I also practice for the possibility of having to chamber a round single handed. In reality, the perfect scenario is highly unlikely. Drawing from concealment is our biggest obstacle.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:13   #330
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Awesomeness.

Thanks for posting.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:15   #331
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I've never said otherwise. If I have, please quote. On the other hand, if you don't have time to chamber a round, there's an even better chance you've lost your chance to even draw from concealment. SA fail. I carry C1 but, I also practice for the possibility of having to chamber a round single handed. In reality, the perfect scenario is highly unlikely. Drawing from concealment is our biggest obstacle.
Good for you. It's been a year or so, but I also train to reload, rack, and fire single handed, ambidextrously.

It just makes sense. You know?
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:59   #332
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Originally Posted by SevenSixtyTwo View Post
Why would you say that? A loaded mag isn't going to change the spring rate of the slide. You might find yourself in a position to need to rack a round single handed some day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHEZrbv3fvs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMsAvWOEj-k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUkiu-oiq0A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Zbm0CO7yI
Interesting vids. The real worst-case scenario is when you have type-3 malfunction (spent case in the chamber, and another round fails to feed, jamming into the spent case) when operating the weapon one handed. I, for the life of me, cannot figure out how to clear this malfunction one handed... It seems if this happens during a fire fight, you are pretty much f&^*ed!
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:40   #333
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I have revealed that I prefer to carry C3, and I often don't carry a firearm at all. My explanation for these choices is that my lifestyle (retired, gated community, low-crime town) allows me to stay away from places/areas where assaults and armed robberies happen; the exceptions would be stopping points while traveling, late-night visits of necessity to the drug store, etc.

For those who CC every place, every day and choose C1, are there any circumstances where you would feel comfortable unarmed? Are there any places where you could turn off situational awareness and eliminate the tension of being constantly prepared for attack?

Since most who always CC feel a low probability of attack still doesn't allow for being comfortable without a weapon, I'm wondering why so many people in the general public, including nearly everyone I've known over 70+ years, see no need to be armed in everyday life. Where is the disconnect?

I understand there are dangerous places in cities everywhere. I realize there can be random acts of violence in churches and other safe havens. What I don't understand is why so few see the need to be armed always while so many never take self defense measures beyond locking their doors.

Is the disconnect the result of naïveté among the masses? Is my perception of relative safety in my life a matter of self deception? Is continuous carry in C1 and constant readiness for combat, including preparation for operating a gun after sustaining wounds, a prescription for every sensible person? Or, are different levels of SD preparedness reasonable based on the circumstances of one's life? I believe this is a relevant aspect of the C1-C3 discussion.

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Old 02-19-2013, 11:59   #334
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I have revealed that I prefer to carry C3, and I often don't carry a firearm at all. My explanation for these choices is that my lifestyle (retired, gated community, low-crime town) allows me to stay away from places/areas where assaults and armed robberies happen; the exceptions would be stopping points while traveling, late-night visits of necessity to the drug store, etc.

For those who CC every place, every day and choose C1, are there any circumstances where you would feel comfortable unarmed? Are there any places where you could turn off situational awareness and eliminate the tension of being constantly prepared for attack?

Since most who always CC feel a low probability of attack still doesn't allow for being comfortable without a weapon, I'm wondering why so many people in the general public, including nearly everyone I've known over 70+ years, see no need to be armed in everyday life. Where is the disconnect?

I understand there are dangerous places in cities everywhere. I realize there can be random acts of violence in churches and other safe havens. What I don't understand is why so few see the need to be armed always while so many never take self defense measures beyond locking their doors.

Is the disconnect the result of naïveté among the masses? Is my perception of relative safety in my life a matter of self deception? Is continuous carry in C1, constant readiness for combat including preparation for operating a gun after sustaining wounds a prescription for every sensible person? Or are different levels of SD preparedness reasonable based on the circumstances of one's life? I believe this is a relevant aspect of the C1-C3 discussion.
Fantastic words. I commend your reflection and I share this thinking as well.
Great post in my view.
BTW - I've carried since 1978. (I'm a bit older as well... Chuckle)


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Old 02-19-2013, 13:12   #335
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
I have revealed that I prefer to carry C3, and I often don't carry a firearm at all. My explanation for these choices is that my lifestyle (retired, gated community, low-crime town) allows me to stay away from places/areas where assaults and armed robberies happen; the exceptions would be stopping points while traveling, late-night visits of necessity to the drug store, etc.

For those who CC every place, every day and choose C1, are there any circumstances where you would feel comfortable unarmed? Are there any places where you could turn off situational awareness and eliminate the tension of being constantly prepared for attack?

Since most who always CC feel a low probability of attack still doesn't allow for being comfortable without a weapon, I'm wondering why so many people in the general public, including nearly everyone I've known over 70+ years, see no need to be armed in everyday life. Where is the disconnect?

I understand there are dangerous places in cities everywhere. I realize there can be random acts of violence in churches and other safe havens. What I don't understand is why so few see the need to be armed always while so many never take self defense measures beyond locking their doors.

Is the disconnect the result of naïveté among the masses? Is my perception of relative safety in my life a matter of self deception? Is continuous carry in C1 and constant readiness for combat, including preparation for operating a gun after sustaining wounds, a prescription for every sensible person? Or, are different levels of SD preparedness reasonable based on the circumstances of one's life? I believe this is a relevant aspect of the C1-C3 discussion.
To give you my answers to some of your questions.
I am an LEO and always carry. When I go places that I can't carry I hate it and feel naked.
I live in a low crime area also, a town of 190 people, and I rarely go to the city. The main reason that I carry all of the time is because I refuse to be a helpless victim, no matter what the chance is of that happening.
Also as an LEO if a shooting would happen in a place that I'm at, I'm going to get involved, armed or not. So I wanna give myself the best possible chance of survival and victory.
There are a couple places that I feel comfortable unarmed, but I carry anyway. One is my dads house and the other is my inlaws house. I can let my guard down when there are dogs around to tell me if something is wrong.
There is a good chance that I feel the way that I do because of my job. I always carry c1 at work and I always carry c1 when I'm off.
In earlier posts people have talked about the dangers of carrying c1 and that they would basically take there chances with being shot by a bad guy rather than have the danger of shooting themselves. I would rather take my chances with shooting myself than to have some low life do it for me.
Hope I didn't stray too far off
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Old 02-19-2013, 14:07   #336
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To give you my answers to some of your questions.
I am an LEO and always carry. When I go places that I can't carry I hate it and feel naked.
I live in a low crime area also, a town of 190 people, and I rarely go to the city. The main reason that I carry all of the time is because I refuse to be a helpless victim, no matter what the chance is of that happening.
Also as an LEO if a shooting would happen in a place that I'm at, I'm going to get involved, armed or not. So I wanna give myself the best possible chance of survival and victory.
There are a couple places that I feel comfortable unarmed, but I carry anyway. One is my dads house and the other is my inlaws house. I can let my guard down when there are dogs around to tell me if something is wrong.
There is a good chance that I feel the way that I do because of my job. I always carry c1 at work and I always carry c1 when I'm off.
In earlier posts people have talked about the dangers of carrying c1 and that they would basically take there chances with being shot by a bad guy rather than have the danger of shooting themselves. I would rather take my chances with shooting myself than to have some low life do it for me.
Hope I didn't stray too far off
You didn't stray at all. Your post was clear and on point.

I suspect your LEO status does influence your feelings about carrying all the time. For one thing, cops and attorneys make enemies along the way that could result in being targeted for a harmful attack.

Not all of the anxiety about C1 carry comes from fear of self-inflicted wounds. I'm more worried about some innocent person getting hurt because of C1 carry without a manual safety.

You didn't address the larger issue of why most people in society, at all socioeconomic levels, don't carry a weapon for SD. I grew up in a middle class community where almost everybody worked hard, owned property, loved their kids and went to church faithfully; nobody I knew personally carried a weapon for SD. I worked in a large mid-west city as part of the professional community from 1970 until 2000, and I only knew one lawyer who carried; he just loved firearms and owned lots of them.

Is there a common denominator for folks who want/need to be armed all the time? Is it because of a heightened perception of danger where they live and work? Is it because of a life-changing, frightening experience that indelibly changed their view of the world? Is it concern driven by a general uneasiness about all things that can be potentially dangerous?

I don't consider myself to be brave or dumb or particularly naive about the world around me. Something, though, prevents me from being extremely sensitive about the danger of attack while others frame their everyday lives around the ability to prevent a deadly surprise encounter. I'm just wondering why our perceptions are so far apart. Preference for C1 instead of C3 is partial evidence of our divergent views.

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Old 02-19-2013, 14:50   #337
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You didn't stray at all. Your post was clear and on point.

I suspect your LEO status does influence your feelings about carrying all the time. For one thing, cops and attorneys make enemies along the way that could result in being targeted for a harmful attack.

Not all of the anxiety about C1 carry comes from fear of self-inflicted wounds. I'm more worried about some innocent person getting hurt because of C1 carry without a manual safety.

You didn't address the larger issue of why most people in society, at all socioeconomic levels, don't carry a weapon for SD. I grew up in a middle class community where almost everybody worked hard, owned property, loved their kids and went to church faithfully; nobody I knew personally carried a weapon for SD. I worked in a large mid-west city as part of the professional community from 1970 until 2000, and I only knew one lawyer who carried; he just loved firearms and owned lots of them.

Is there a common denominator for folks who want/need to be armed all the time? Is it because of perceived danger where they live and work? Is it because of a life-changing, frightening experience that indelibly changed their view of the world? Is it concern driven by a general uneasiness about all things that can be potentially dangerous?

I don't consider myself to be brave or dumb or particularly naive about the world around me. Something, though, prevents me from being extremely sensitive about the danger of attack while others frame their everyday lives around the ability to prevent a deadly surprise encounter. I'm just wondering why our perceptions are so far apart.


You are asking for a social psychology dissertation here... ha-ha!! And, I hope somebody is working on such dissertation right now (if it hasn't already been written).

The issue you've raised in your last 2 posts is extremely interesting and important. And, I've been pondering the same in the last couple of years that I've been a gun owner (I'm from academic background, and, like you, from a relatively safe area - where gun ownership is an exception, rather than the norm).

I think one way to approach the issue is to think about it this way: Our society (i.e., human race) has been quite successful over thousands of years of evolution. And your observation appears correct: Most people go about their daily lives not worried about terrorism, meteor attacks, alien invasion, being a victim of mass shooting or home invasion, U.S. collapsing into chaos because of disruption in energy supplies, SHTF situation caused by street riots or natural disasters (yes, I've been watching Doomsday Preppers lately - which was highly entertaining - but I digress... )... It appears that happily ignoring (or being blissfully unaware of) real threats that have high severity (ie, one can die if hit by a meteor) but relatively low likelihood of occurring has been the norm and has served our human race well. Psychologically and practically, there are many benefits to thinking this way: lower stress level, lower blood pressure, lower level of ordinary confrontations escalating to lethal levels (if carrying any weapon), lower likelihood of hurting oneself/others inadvertently (if carrying a firearm). Also, we can afford to think this way in part because we have police, laws penalizing violent/nonviolent crimes, (imperfect) laws preventing (many, not all) criminals from getting access to guns, and citizens who are able to protect others, or who can protect themselves even during a surprise attack. I think flight/fight reflex is there for a reason: It helps us survive an unexpected attack, without having to constantly worry about such threats. Perhaps, another reason why today most people are not worried too much about such threats is because our society has become safer (I have no data on this, but this appears plausible due to advances in education, healthcare, manufacturing safety, workplace safety, violence being less tolerated by society at large...). I think the trend is society getting safer and fewer and fewer people having to worry about external threats (again, no data - just my hunch).

What's my point? There is no point at the moment... Just some rambling thoughts of somebody who is sleep deprived at the moment. But, I promise to revisit this topic soon...

Why I carry a knife and gun? I like knives and guns (like that lawyer from your post). Being an innocent victim of some idiot with an IQ in the single digits sucks! Picturing my loved ones violently murdered by some homicidal lunatic is the worst nightmare for me (or for anyone else). But, are these "rational" reasons to worry about these attacks (and even owning a gun, and much more carrying a gun, and even more carrying a gun in C1)? In my case, the answer is probably "no". In my case, carrying a gun and knife is mostly a strong emotional response (with occasional rational use)... I do enjoy training and enjoy shooting, for whatever its worth.

I'm looking forward to reading about philosophies/thoughts on this from older, wiser, and more experienced individuals than I'm...
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Old 02-19-2013, 16:58   #338
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You didn't stray at all. Your post was clear and on point.

I suspect your LEO status does influence your feelings about carrying all the time. For one thing, cops and attorneys make enemies along the way that could result in being targeted for a harmful attack.

Not all of the anxiety about C1 carry comes from fear of self-inflicted wounds. I'm more worried about some innocent person getting hurt because of C1 carry without a manual safety.

You didn't address the larger issue of why most people in society, at all socioeconomic levels, don't carry a weapon for SD. I grew up in a middle class community where almost everybody worked hard, owned property, loved their kids and went to church faithfully; nobody I knew personally carried a weapon for SD. I worked in a large mid-west city as part of the professional community from 1970 until 2000, and I only knew one lawyer who carried; he just loved firearms and owned lots of them.

Is there a common denominator for folks who want/need to be armed all the time? Is it because of perceived danger where they live and work? Is it because of a life-changing, frightening experience that indelibly changed their view of the world? Is it concern driven by a general uneasiness about all things that can be potentially dangerous?

I don't consider myself to be brave or dumb or particularly naive about the world around me. Something, though, prevents me from being extremely sensitive about the danger of attack while others frame their everyday lives around the ability to prevent a deadly surprise encounter. I'm just wondering why our perceptions are so far apart. Preference for C1 instead of C3 is partial evidence of our divergent views.
I'm not sure what the answer is bro. When I was growing up only a few people I know carried.
A lot more carry now and I'm not sure but I'd think that it is because there is more violence in places that you would not expect it (malls and such).
As for your question about those that don't carry. I think it is either they are comfortable that nothing is going to happen where they are. Or they are the type that think it could never happen to them. Then you have the sheep, they will only run from trouble and hope the sheepdog is close by to help them.
I'm a very tolerant person and am not trying to judge anyone. I know how I feel about things and what I'm comfortable with, it's not for everyone

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Old 02-19-2013, 17:41   #339
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I'm not sure what the answer is bro. When I was growing up only a few people I know carried.
A lot more carry now and I'm not sure but I'd think that it is because there is more violence in places that you would not expect it (malls and such).
As for your question about those that don't carry. I think it is either they are comfortable that nothing is going to happen where they are. Or they are the type that think it could never happen to them. Then you have the sheep, they will only run from trouble and hope the sheepdog is close by to help them.
I'm a very tolerant person and am not trying to judge anyone. I know how I feel about things and what I'm comfortable with, it's not for everyone
That's fair. Thanks.
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Old 02-19-2013, 18:20   #340
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You didn't stray at all. Your post was clear and on point.

I suspect your LEO status does influence your feelings about carrying all the time. For one thing, cops and attorneys make enemies along the way that could result in being targeted for a harmful attack.

Not all of the anxiety about C1 carry comes from fear of self-inflicted wounds. I'm more worried about some innocent person getting hurt because of C1 carry without a manual safety.

You didn't address the larger issue of why most people in society, at all socioeconomic levels, don't carry a weapon for SD. I grew up in a middle class community where almost everybody worked hard, owned property, loved their kids and went to church faithfully; nobody I knew personally carried a weapon for SD. I worked in a large mid-west city as part of the professional community from 1970 until 2000, and I only knew one lawyer who carried; he just loved firearms and owned lots of them.

Is there a common denominator for folks who want/need to be armed all the time? Is it because of perceived danger where they live and work? Is it because of a life-changing, frightening experience that indelibly changed their view of the world? Is it concern driven by a general uneasiness about all things that can be potentially dangerous?

I don't consider myself to be brave or dumb or particularly naive about the world around me. Something, though, prevents me from being extremely sensitive about the danger of attack while others frame their everyday lives around the ability to prevent a deadly surprise encounter. I'm just wondering why our perceptions are so far apart. Preference for C1 instead of C3 is partial evidence of our divergent views.

People that don't carry, and have never felt the need to, feel safe. Nothing has ever happened to them.

Some people like LEO and some former military are, lets say, self programed to be always aware. These people do not want to get caught without a gun in a bad situation.

I know some vets that after returning from the crap holes they were in feel naked without a gun.

In the world we live in now, s-hitting the fan can start anywhere anytime. If you want to feel safe by carrying, ok. If you already feel safe and don't want to carry, ok.
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