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Old 02-01-2013, 16:41   #41
SCmasterblaster
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It goes to show you

just how excellent the .45 ACP cartridge is.
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Old 02-01-2013, 19:40   #42
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Thanks fastbolt. Good information. Looks like your 3.25 does just fine.
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Old 02-01-2013, 19:47   #43
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Found an earlier listing when I had my notes at hand ...

In the CS45, the standard pressure load did 802fps/13"pen/.77" expansion, and the +P load did 839fps/12"/.76".

In the Colt Commander we saw the standard pressure round do 846fps/14"/.79" and the +P round do 901fps/11.5"/.77"

Who knows what more rounds might've exhibited, as there aren't any guarantees.
What are the bullet weights here?
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Old 02-01-2013, 19:55   #44
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What are the bullet weights here?
I think he said 230 gn
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Old 02-01-2013, 20:20   #45
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I think he said 230 gn
230 gr makes sense.
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Old 02-01-2013, 20:24   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastbolt View Post
Found an earlier listing when I had my notes at hand ...

In the CS45, the standard pressure load did 802fps/13"pen/.77" expansion, and the +P load did 839fps/12"/.76".

In the Colt Commander we saw the standard pressure round do 846fps/14"/.79" and the +P round do 901fps/11.5"/.77"

Who knows what more rounds might've exhibited, as there aren't any guarantees.

Thanks fastbolt, That goes along with what we're seeing out of these short/medium barrel lengths,at those "approx:" vels.


Got some more to share latter... Right now , as usual, gotta run right quick. Hope to be back and share some findings with you/all ....




Sray safe pard











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Old 02-01-2013, 21:10   #47
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What are the bullet weights here?

230gr loads.
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Old 02-01-2013, 22:26   #48
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Stay away from hot 165gr and 185gr loads. Penetration sucks due to vastly reduced sectional density. Not worth it.

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Old 02-02-2013, 08:27   #49
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Stay away from hot 165gr and 185gr loads. Penetration sucks due to vastly reduced sectional density. Not worth it.
Even with the 185 gr JHPs at 1050 FPS? It seems to me that they would penetrate well.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:29   #50
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Even with the 185 gr JHPs at 1050 FPS? It seems to me that they would penetrate well.
Not in the tests data I've seen. It's not uncommon to see only like 9 or 10" with the ligher .45 acp loads.

And you can get 200 gr +P bullets at 1050 or even 1080 fps. 185gr +P are in the 1150 fps range.

They just don't have the momentum of the heavier 200 and 230gr bullets. They open up and slow down quick. Perhaps the 12-15" of penetration is a tad overrated, but I'd rather have it and not need it then the other way around, since penetration is the MOST important factor in terminal ballistics.

Now, that being said, one of the bullets that hit that scumbag in the stomach at that Ohio gas station shooting from about 1.5 years ago was a Corbon Pow'r Ball 165gr +P rated at 1225 fps (shot from a G36, so probably about 1100-1125 fps-ish). The other bullet, that also hit him in the stomach, was a regular pressure 230gr FMJ. That kid was on the ground in a split second in utter pain, begging for his life like a whimpering dog. And those were stomach shots and he was very determined to hurt the young man he was assaulting. The Pow'r Ball caused massive damage and stayed inside, and the FMJ blew right out his lower back. Had they been chest shots, he for sure would be dead.

Anecdotal evidence aside, almost all 230gr loads penetrate more, open up bigger and have more momentum than the lighter loads. Why would you choose the less effective load unless you fell for the velocity/energy marketing scam?

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Old 02-07-2013, 02:36   #51
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...Now, that being said, one of the bullets that hit that scumbag in the stomach at that Ohio gas station shooting from about 1.5 years ago was a Corbon Pow'r Ball 165gr +P rated at 1225 fps (shot from a G36, so probably about 1100-1125 fps-ish). The other bullet, that also hit him in the stomach, was a regular pressure 230gr FMJ. That kid was on the ground in a split second in utter pain, begging for his life like a whimpering dog...

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Old 02-07-2013, 03:13   #52
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I figure fastbolt (as usual) illustrates things perfectly;

A good full weight 230gr load will do the job in a short bbl. Worst case, you get no expansion but plenty of penetration with a blunt 230gr already .451 diameter slug.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:26   #53
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I figure fastbolt (as usual) illustrates things perfectly;

A good full weight 230gr load will do the job in a short bbl. Worst case, you get no expansion but plenty of penetration with a blunt 230gr already .451 diameter slug.
So true. One wonders why the .45 ammo makers try so hard to produce an expanding bullet. It leaves the barrel at .45 caliber already.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:37   #54
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So true. One wonders why the .45 ammo makers try so hard to produce an expanding bullet. It leaves the barrel at .45 caliber already.
Cutting and increased wounding effectiveness, as well as the reduced potential for perforation (over-penetration).
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:42   #55
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Cutting and increased wounding effectiveness, as well as the reduced potential for perforation (over-penetration).
So true. The .45ACP 230gr FMJ does penetrate a lot.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:56   #56
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It's hard to try and predict what any particular handgun bullet will do, though.

I remember a fatal shooting where a .45 FMJ entered a victim's upper COM (frontal shot) and was deflected so it ended up in the lower torso, damaging critical organs along its path. If I remember right, I was told the bullet had been deflected downward upon hitting the anterior part of one of the scapula.
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Old 02-08-2013, 14:02   #57
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I figure fastbolt (as usual) illustrates things perfectly;

A good full weight 230gr load will do the job in a short bbl. Worst case, you get no expansion but plenty of penetration with a blunt 230gr already .451 diameter slug.

Because they don't cut a perfect .451" hole, whether it be a RN hardball round or a HP that doesn't expand. Think about it. Hardball slips right through a body (if no large bones are hit) and the flesh mostly snaps right back. The HP cavity is smaller than .451" on an unexpanded HP. A pure full WC bullet will cut a .451" hole however.

When using short barrel .45's it's best to use a lighter weight HP that has a better chance of expanding, IMO. Personally, I would use the Speer 200 gr. GD and possibly the +p version. The bigger 230 gr. bullets seem to work far better in 5" barrel service length guns. The only exception being the Fed. 230 gr. HST which according to ATK has an expansion "floor" of 725 fps. Maybe the fella with the Mouseguns website has tested it in a short barrel(?).
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Old 02-08-2013, 14:31   #58
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When we talk about defensive round we seem to separate the bullet performance from the pistol.

Did you ever stand back and watch folks shooting their compact 1911 45 acp at the range? 1 in 10 can actually shoot their 1911 compact defensively. They carefully aim the sights for several seconds. It is as if the test is for the smallest group size.

230 gr top end defensive ammo lifts barrel on my 3" kimber. You have practice and be pretty strong to get to get 3 shots off with good splits.

I think the Speer 165 gr short barrel round is more controllable. I have ran test in the bullet. I think it will work. Well if you think 3 shots in 4 - 6 inch group centered on the chest is good enough at 7 yds.
Which is why I am not a fan of +P rounds in the small/light guns. Dropping just one bullet wt, like the 200grXTP, keeps my split times & accuracy sim to my heavier competition guns using 230gr loads. I don't feel I give up much w/ a 200gr XTP @ 850fps in my 1911OM or my 1911PD @ 900fps. It will expand to 60cal+ & penetrate as deep as some other 230gr going slower. Even most 185gr JHP loads work better from shorter bbls as the reduced vel means slightly less expansion & more penetration. IMO, still a better choice than a 230gr+P load to get vel up. The std pressure 185gr RGS or 185gr XTP or 185gr GDHP is not a bad choice for the short bbl guns.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:32   #59
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If I had a short-barreled .45 ACP, I would load it with CorBon 185gr JHPs.
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Old 03-18-2013, 21:00   #60
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I shot some of the Gold Dot SB loads out of my 36 and clocked them at approx 780fps. In comparison, I shot Federal HST 230 +p that clocked at 850fps and Win. Ranger Talon 230 +p at 880fps. A 230gr HP at 850-880fps out of a 36 will def. get the job done if u put them where them need to be. My handloads are only 750fps w/ a 230 FMJ for range/practice use.
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