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Old 01-22-2013, 12:49   #1
glockrod
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Little Crow Worlds Finest Trimmer

Good?
Bad?
Worth $70

I have to find something to trim a several thousand of .223 brass. My manual RCBS trimmer just aint gonna do it fast enough or without an arm transplant!

I have thought about setting up my RCBS 3way cutter on my drill press and set the press for height to trim, but I like the idea of this little crow trimmer trimming on the headspace after the brass is sized.

Any other ideas?
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:54   #2
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Other than the Dillon. That would be what I would use.
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Old 01-22-2013, 14:11   #3
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Dillon RT 1200. I used to use a drill press setup, it was quick, but the RT 1200 is fast.


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Old 01-22-2013, 16:04   #4
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$250 vs $70

Yes, the Dillon may be good, but the price is a turn off. I am a Toyota driving kind of person, not Ferrarri(ok, maybe that is too xtreme of an example). I can handle a little more time invested more than I can handle 3.5 times the price.

Is the Little Crow any good? Are there any inherent problems? Is it reliable? I know it is slower than the Dillon, but will it do as good of a job?

I really dont want another mounted tool to have to keep up with.
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Old 01-22-2013, 16:32   #5
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Buddy of mine just got one for .223. It was fast! Right out of the box, it was trimming all of them either 1.753" or 1.754".

Aside from the fact that it's caliber specific, it's a pretty slick deal. Wear eye protection.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:29   #6
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I really like Lee trimers. Simple, cheap and pretty quick on a hand drill.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:55   #7
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So I guess it indexes off the shoulder of the case. So you have to size everything, then trim. Dillon sizes and trims at the same time. So you save a step. Do I have that right?
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:14   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glockrod View Post
Yes, the Dillon may be good, but the price is a turn off. I am a Toyota driving kind of person, not Ferrarri(ok, maybe that is too xtreme of an example). I can handle a little more time invested more than I can handle 3.5 times the price.

Is the Little Crow any good? Are there any inherent problems? Is it reliable? I know it is slower than the Dillon, but will it do as good of a job?

I really dont want another mounted tool to have to keep up with.
The biggest turn of to me about using anything other than the Dillon is having to handle each and every case.
That said, I recommended that a friend get a WFT in .308 and after trying it out must say it works awesome. They call it the poor mans Giraud. I shoot/load way to much .223 to go that way but would go that route for .308 in 100 case batches myself.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:30   #9
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got a.223 wft on order now

Does the case still require in/outside chamfering after trimmed by the wft?
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:49   #10
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Redding has a new attachment for their trimmer that trims, deburs and camfers all at the same time. Their setup can be powered by as drill as well.

Neither the Dillon or the WFT do that. Most bulk reloaded don't cancer with those machines.
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Old 01-23-2013, 13:37   #11
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Quote:
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Does the case still require in/outside chamfering after trimmed by the wft?
Nope cuts very clean with a slight chamfer and debur.
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Old 01-23-2013, 16:13   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glockrod View Post
Yes, the Dillon may be good, but the price is a turn off. I am a Toyota driving kind of person, not Ferrarri(ok, maybe that is too xtreme of an example). I can handle a little more time invested more than I can handle 3.5 times the price.

Is the Little Crow any good? Are there any inherent problems? Is it reliable? I know it is slower than the Dillon, but will it do as good of a job?

I really dont want another mounted tool to have to keep up with.
That is my issue. I need more stuff than I have money. I would like the Dillon but I also need a star luber sizer. With the WFT I would have more left over for the star.
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Old 02-05-2013, 21:10   #13
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The CRB in me talked me into buying one of these instead of the Dillon. Big mistake!
If you only have one type of brass or if you sort and then cut each type separately it may work. But it just doesn't work for mixed brass. with the 223 I am getting between 1.734 and 1.769 OAL.
Yes I deprimed and sized them all first. But the differences between manufacture tolerances is keeping me from getting acceptable OAL for the processed brass.

I guess I will see if their 30 day money back guaranty is any better than their cutter.
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Old 02-05-2013, 21:33   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunred View Post
The CRB in me talked me into buying one of these instead of the Dillon. Big mistake!
If you only have one type of brass or if you sort and then cut each type separately it may work. But it just doesn't work for mixed brass. with the 223 I am getting between 1.734 and 1.769 OAL.
Yes I deprimed and sized them all first. But the differences between manufacture tolerances is keeping me from getting acceptable OAL for the processed brass.

I guess I will see if their 30 day money back guaranty is any better than their cutter.
RT is the ONLY option for processing. For precision there are others but for a reliable OAL and high production, no one beats the RT 1200
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se carga el diablo de la pistola...
25acp,.223,25-20win,.308, 8mm M, 7mm Rem Mag, 9mm,.40,10mm .45acp, .475 Wildey Mag
On 2 Hornady LNL's And a Super 1050

As Reloaders we should adapt the load to the gun, not the gun to the load.
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Old 02-06-2013, 00:48   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Redding has a new attachment for their trimmer that trims, deburs and camfers all at the same time. Their setup can be powered by as drill as well.

Neither the Dillon or the WFT do that. Most bulk reloaded don't cancer with those machines.
Colorado4Wheel,
Can you give us more info on this attachment? I can't find it.

I have a redding cutting powered by a drill but I still have to hand camfer and deburr.

Thanks

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Old 02-06-2013, 07:17   #16
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I never cancer my brass, Stevie. I can never tell if you're drunk or posting from your phone.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:37   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drgslayr View Post
Colorado4Wheel,
Can you give us more info on this attachment? I can't find it.

I have a redding cutting powered by a drill but I still have to hand camfer and deburr.

Thanks
Made a mistake. It a Forster 3-1 Case Mouth Cutter.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:37   #18
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I never cancer my brass, Stevie. I can never tell if you're drunk or posting from your phone.
Phone. Auto Correct.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:44   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunred View Post
The CRB in me talked me into buying one of these instead of the Dillon. Big mistake!
If you only have one type of brass or if you sort and then cut each type separately it may work. But it just doesn't work for mixed brass. with the 223 I am getting between 1.734 and 1.769 OAL.
Yes I deprimed and sized them all first. But the differences between manufacture tolerances is keeping me from getting acceptable OAL for the processed brass.

I guess I will see if their 30 day money back guaranty is any better than their cutter.
Sorting by headstamp will make a difference, the WTF measures of the sized shoulder, with sorted brass on .308 my buddy is getting 0.001 +/-
The RT1200 is a better option (and faster) for mixed brass. You can sort if you wish too or not. I sort only for batches of heavy bullet loads for my AR. There will be 400-600 flashers at PNW Mulitigun this year.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:35   #20
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Quote:
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If you only have one type of brass or if you sort and then cut each type separately it may work. But it just doesn't work for mixed brass. with the 223 I am getting between 1.734 and 1.769 OAL.
Yes I deprimed and sized them all first. But the differences between manufacture tolerances is keeping me from getting acceptable OAL for the processed brass.
I haven't used this type of trimmer but I am curious... Not so much about the WFT but about the overall process and why it varies.

Since the WFT indexes off the shoulder, and assuming there are no loose pieces (some mechanical problem) inside the cutter, it would seem to me that the distance from some place on the shoulder to the case mouth would come out exact after trimming.

But, if the shoulder isn't always in the same place, OAL would vary even if the shoulder to case mouth distance was exact. I just can't figure out why the shoulder would be different depending on brass manufacturer after it has been resized. Unless, of course, the shoulder was already too far back and the resizing die didn't bump it at all.

I suppose there could be a difference in 'spring back' between various manufacturers. The die pushes the shoulder back but after the die is removed, the shoulder springs back a little. But 0.035" seems like a lot.

I think I would be using a case gauge to see how the shoulder location varies among cases after resizing but before trimming and then again after trimming to see how the OAL is varying.

There's something odd when a mechanical process has that much variation.

Richard
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:26   #21
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Quote:
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I haven't used this type of trimmer but I am curious... Not so much about the WFT but about the overall process and why it varies.

Since the WFT indexes off the shoulder, and assuming there are no loose pieces (some mechanical problem) inside the cutter, it would seem to me that the distance from some place on the shoulder to the case mouth would come out exact after trimming.

But, if the shoulder isn't always in the same place, OAL would vary even if the shoulder to case mouth distance was exact. I just can't figure out why the shoulder would be different depending on brass manufacturer after it has been resized. Unless, of course, the shoulder was already too far back and the resizing die didn't bump it at all.

I suppose there could be a difference in 'spring back' between various manufacturers. The die pushes the shoulder back but after the die is removed, the shoulder springs back a little. But 0.035" seems like a lot.

I think I would be using a case gauge to see how the shoulder location varies among cases after resizing but before trimming and then again after trimming to see how the OAL is varying.

There's something odd when a mechanical process has that much variation.

Richard
Could it be the difference in 5.56 vs .223
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25acp,.223,25-20win,.308, 8mm M, 7mm Rem Mag, 9mm,.40,10mm .45acp, .475 Wildey Mag
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As Reloaders we should adapt the load to the gun, not the gun to the load.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:32   #22
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Has all the brass been fired in the same chamber?

If not then the shoulder on some brass could be shaped differently then on other brass. Even if the die has pushed it back.

This is just a guess,
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Old 02-06-2013, 16:05   #23
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All my 223-556 brass is range pickup.
It has all been fired from different guns.
Most of it really is once fired because the police and border patrol guys get there ammo for free and don't bother to pick it the brass.

I would imagine that the cutter is cutting very close to exact from the place it measures on the brass. But with different manufactures and being shot from different guns and the entire case OAL varies way to much.
I will sort through and try to get twenty or so of the same brad to try.
I currently have around 5 thousand cases I need to process. There is just no way I want to spend the time it would take to sort by manufacture. I will email Little Crow and see if they have a suggestion. If I could just end up with everything between 1.750 and 1.760 I would be happy.
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:15   #24
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From what I saw in the video, the WTF works the same as the Kwick Trimmer by Possum Hollow (I own two of them - .223 & .308/.243). Richard, you're spot on from what my theory is after having used the KT for the last two years. While the trimming will be consistent, based on the shoulder datum point, it will not be consistent for case OL. How this matters when the finished round is fired is beyond me at the moment. As no two chambers will be alike, I suppose that minor differences have no real effect if you are working with RPU brass. I have experienced a minor variation in case OL but do not let that bother me. The cannelure on .223 bullets is wide enough to accept the variation.

In my estimation (and excluding new unfired brass), any trimmer that does NOT make the cut based on the shoulder datum but instead off the base of the case (Wilson, RCBS, Lee, Dillon RT, etc.) will give a much more consistent case OL.
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Old 02-06-2013, 20:39   #25
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mine works great and is accurate...but if I were to load ALOT of 223 I might look at something else...but the WFT works good enough for me.
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