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Old 01-21-2013, 22:30   #1
dango
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Off The Grid ?

Has anybody heard about the (Power4Patriots) system ?
It covers the how to,s of wind and solar power , the ability to go "off the grid". Any feed-back would be highly appreciated.

Thank you , And , if you have not heard of it , (power4patriots.com) ...! Looks mighty interesting !
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:40   #2
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On a serious note , I really am interested in this and of coarse, there is a small investment involved so any feed-back would really be appreciated. $67,s......?

Thank you.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:37   #3
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I have heard of it, watched the infomercial for it online after I clicked on it. As much of it as I could stand anyway. The idea sounded good but if you research PV power you can find out everything they tell you for free. One of the things you need to do to go PV for a whole house is to cut usage.
FWIW my son did a science fair project on PV for the home about 12 years ago when he was in school. As part of the project he did a spread sheet showing cost vs payback on a home PV system. His information showed that with only a 1% cost increase in the cost of commercial power most home systems will pay for themselves in 12 years.
That also doesn't count the rebate to you the consumer made by state, Federal, or local Gov'ts or any help your local power company might provide.
There was at the time a monthly or bi-monthly magazine published called HOME POWER.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:58   #4
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Thanks and I like your end "Motto" I'm really tuff .
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:24   #5
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HA! Does that mean you're really... never mind.

Coming from someone that once ran into the same closed sliding glass door twice in 3 seconds.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:12   #6
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I've heard their ads on late-night talk radio. I don't know anything about them.

Of course I've been schooled and experienced living off the grid and providing power. Lotsa folks in AK live off the grid even along the road system.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:40   #7
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I'm trying to cut all ties.I have well water and bought a hand pump,but normally use electric pump.
I got three fire places so heat is no problem.(D-R splitter,good chain saw,"with three extra new chains",ropes,come-along and if things get "Mid-Evil" ,I got a Ax,hatchet, mull,sledge hammer and wedges.
Got a gas,Propane stove so it'll still work when the power goes out,just need a match to light it.
Three back-up camp stoves,one propane,"three burner,two,multi-fuel,two burner and again,three fire places.
Got plenty of lighting,four Candlierss"with three nine hour waxless candles in each,two single candle lanterns and three mini candle lanterns.They are safe as hell so when safely positioned,I can sleep.
Started gardening in 06 but had to take a break last year ,"Health problems" ,but this year,back at it.
Canning,pickling,got a big dehydrator,hunting,fishing and learned smoking and curing meats,fowl and fish etc..
Got walkie-Talkies,but looking for "short wave radio".
Hmmm,what am I forgetting?
Plenty ammo +starting to reload.?????
Add to this,I take all good advice.
Hmm.? Can heat water if I have to.
Got years of back-woods survival skills.
Add to this and lets make it a "stickey".
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:14   #8
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As far as the PV goes a lot of your requirements lie with where you're located. Here is Fla. the biggest consumer of power is our A/C. I have lived without it but that was 35 years ago. I've become soft. If I had to I could, but my wife and I both work nights so while we're working there aren't any options.
As far as being ready I'd say gardening is the best skill you can have. I'm amused at how many people buy a gallon of survival seeds and think they're ready. You had better know what to grow and how to grow it. That's a whole skill set all it's own. While you're at it canning is a good thing to know about as well. You can't eat a whole crop of anything all at one time.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:17   #9
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You are going to have to do better on your lighting. Candles aren't going to cut it in the long term. You are going to need oil lamps and lanterns and should probably consider gas lighting plumbed into the same source as your cook stove.

I don't know where you live or the climate you're in, but the fireplaces are a no-go for colder climates. Fireplaces suck even with an insert. If it were me, I'd seal them off, extend the hearth and install a woodstove(s) in front of the fireplace tying them in to the chimneys. You could also do one woodstove and a free-standing drip-feed oil stove.

I would also add an old cross-cut saw to your wood gathering tools and a saw set.

Think of how the Amish live. Ya might want to shop where they do too.

https://www.lehmans.com/

You are still going to need to produce electricity for a lot of appliances, especially refrigerators and freezers for at least a couple hours a day which means a generator. One of the best systems I've ever seen was an old 2-cylinder, Lister diesel hooked up to an 8k generator.

The Lister can be started by electric or hand crank. Most of the folks I know living off the grid also have a battery bank in a dedicated room that runs small appliances and other items during the day, especially water pumps pumping from day tanks. The batteries also run small LED light fixtures in rooms and hallways that allow you to see well enough to move around safely and do tasks that don't need bright lighting to do.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:33   #10
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Stevelyn , I do have like six or so oil lamps,Coleman lamps both multi fuel and propane,but they burn dirty. I will use them if necessary.
The temp. last night was 3 degrees and two of my fire places have "Heat-o-lators with blowing fans.The one fire place has the Pyrex glass doors on it and it would be the worse of the three because it's got slidder vents to control burn rate and heat.
Funny thing,my furnace went on the fritz about 7:00 PM. last night and by the thermo on the wall,it never got below 65 degrees. Didn't mean to test drive yet ,but crap happens.
I'm tired and been up all night ,but I have two ladies to care for, Mom-in-law 89 years young and my beautiful wife.

My house is wired for a back-up geny. , grid shut off and all the bells and whistles. Already have that .
I love the saw and saw-set idea,Stellar idea.I will look into those!
What I'm thinking here is,OK,I have no fuel,worst case scenario,my generator is dead weight along with my Fridge.
Now what,how do I remain some-what comfortable and healthy.
No out-side power grid,no fuel,that's why I'm looking at all possible chaotic scenarios.
Totally minimalistic,nothing but what my neighbors and my family need to stay alive.
That's why I'm interested in wind and sun power.I will not go down easy.I'm am an extremist,but I also have the two Ladies,changes things Dramatically!........

Last edited by dango; 01-22-2013 at 08:35..
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:43   #11
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Stevelyn,that saw idea was great!What else,what little or big thing ain't I thought of yet? Give your ideas ,it might help us all.
Like what weapons other than guns do you use ? I got some things ,but I know I don't have it all.
Give us your knowledge,it may well save lives,who knows?
One thing I do have is the ability to navigate and short term weather fore casting,(short-term,36 or so hours), Thommen altimeter with baromiter,Taylor recording thermos,compass,Dwyer wind speed gauge,watch,etc.!

What have we not mentioned,anything?
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:32   #12
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I was thinking besides canning and pickling,dry goods storage and shelf life ,but as I checked some things out,there's some bad,(Down right UN-healthy)crap on the shelves.You really got to read labels.
I remember when soy,rice,oats,etc. was good for us.

What's up,seems like the package things came in are probably better to eat than what's inside!

Do we really have provide ourselves with everything,(Water included)......?
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:16   #13
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Living off grid is expensive and hard to set up. I know, while I have a reliable source of power (solar with generator back-up) it can be onerous and there are many, many gotcha's and pitfalls that are not generally covered in most manuals. Little things, like insulating your batteries in cold weather. I learned this one the hard way. I have a blog that answers a lot of questions about solar.

Thing is you cannot rely on solar only, if possible wind or better yet micro-hydro. Both options that I am saving up to install before next winter. This was my first year with an off-grid solar array. I have learned a ton but sadly it's going to cost me for my early ignorance and mistakes. Half of my battery array got beat up pretty bad so chances are very good I won't see the 8 years I expected. If I am lucky I will get 4.

For an emergency generator I would recommend propane. Why? Well while propane generators tend to not produce as much capacity as diesel or gas, they work just fine. But the real reason is you can store propane indefinitely without it going bad. Diesel and gas don't age well. Sure you can use it... but why risk damaging your generator?
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:18   #14
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There is also woodgas generation, and thermal electric generators. I have two small TEGS that I need to set up to operate off of my wood stove during the winter. The power they produce could at least slow the rate of discharge down from my batteries.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:47   #15
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Thanks G20 10mm.,that's the kind of info I'm looking for.I've read some about "Deep-Cycle" batteries and that some can lose up to 70% energy just by mercury dipping below zero.

You say you have a "BLOG",I want to go there."Micro-Hydro",
you talking about the proverbial "Saw-Dust Mountain"? The energy given off by decomposition of organic materials?

I have many,many questions,"BLOG ON" G20!
How do I get there,your profile?Want to know more about
"Micro-Hydro...!

Thanks for all the help,I need it,really,THANK YOU!

Oooops,I already bought a geny.6500 watts.Diesel.I estimated minimal use around 4500 watts.Gives me most of what I need ,but no hot water.
^Micro-Hydro^?

Last edited by dango; 01-22-2013 at 11:53..
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:49   #16
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Micro-hydro is nothing more than a small either AC or DC generator hooked up to a pelton wheel and placed into a moving stream of water. For us we have seasonal streams that have the potential to produce about 700-900W @ 24VDC. Doesn't sound like much but it is more than enough. See time is what you need plus watts. And if you have a stream that is running 24/7 for several weeks/months (generally when I need power the most and solar isn't producing enough) then you have an abundance of potential power.

Just going with the 700W @ 24VDC in a 24hr period I can produce 16.8kWh. MORE than enough to keep batteries topped off. Same thing is true of wind although that's more sporadic. Also with a well if you have elevation (something again that I am fortunate to have) then you can pump water with solar on good days into storage then when you need the power (when it's raining/snowing or overcast) use the water to generate the power needed through a micro-hydro system.

Right now all I have is solar, as I said earlier I am looking to set up wind and micro-hydro. As for my blog: http://mcdianpower.blogspot.com/2011...-had-idea.html
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Last edited by Glock20 10mm; 01-22-2013 at 13:08..
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Old 01-22-2013, 13:56   #17
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I wrote down your Blog No. and will go there.
Topography,I live on the top of a large hill and I can grasp this hydro power.

It's about 1100 ft drop and quite a way to the nearest moving water so I guess I consider storage.Volumes and how weather trends might play.

At this point,I don't even know what to ask.After some research and your Blog,then will I fifty question you !

Thank you very much ! My family and neighbors also Thank you!
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Old 01-22-2013, 14:01   #18
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Planning & Zoning

FYI- check out your local P&Z (township/municipal/county) before investing.
Somethings such as wind turbines may have a height restriction. You might be dead in the water, or have an appeal/variance option.

Check it before you $$$ it.
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 01-22-2013, 14:03   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Planning & Zoning

FYI- check out your local P&Z (township/municipal/county) before investing.
Somethings such as wind turbines may have a height restriction. You might be dead in the water, or have an appeal/variance option.

Check it before you $$$ it.
Good point! Didn't think about this aspect
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Old 01-22-2013, 14:09   #20
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Unfortunately I know someone who ran into this issue with his wind turbine.
He spent $$$ on constructing his home, ordered the tower, found out the residential zone he was in had a limit for height that was well below what was required for the wind power to be useful.
I felt bad for him. Odd guy, but nice enough fellow with a family.
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 01-22-2013, 14:12   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Planning & Zoning

FYI- check out your local P&Z (township/municipal/county) before investing.
Somethings such as wind turbines may have a height restriction. You might be dead in the water, or have an appeal/variance option.

Check it before you $$$ it.
Never even came to mind? Good point and I will check it out.
Fact is where I live,I truly have the illusion of "FREEDOM" ,
but have not really looked into "HOW FREE".
Again,Thanks.......!

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Old 01-22-2013, 15:46   #22
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Do you subscribe to Backwoods Home magazine yet? If not it's a great investment. It's great if your going off grid and it's written by real people. Mas Ayoob even writes gun articles for them.

Here in the deep south the solar and wind just don't cut it unless you can live without AC! The solar to power my small house with AC would have run me $139,000 and practically cover every square foot of space I have. Look into a diesel generator for back up and battery charging.
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Old 01-22-2013, 17:41   #23
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What about steam power? Boiler heated by wood feeding steam to a reciprocating engine to turn a generator to power whatever.

Check out the RV industry for appliances such as refrigerators powered by propane.

Salvage a complete air conditioning system from a motor vehicle. Power the compressor with another steam engine.

Acquire a metal lathe and a vertical mill with tooling and learn to use them. Stockpile metal.


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Old 01-22-2013, 17:43   #24
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https://homepower.com/
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Old 01-22-2013, 18:56   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by railfancwb View Post
What about steam power? Boiler heated by wood feeding steam to a reciprocating engine to turn a generator to power whatever.

Check out the RV industry for appliances such as refrigerators powered by propane.

Salvage a complete air conditioning system from a motor vehicle. Power the compressor with another steam engine.

Acquire a metal lathe and a vertical mill with tooling and learn to use them. Stockpile metal.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Steam is too dangerous and requires too much maintenance.

This video shows how dangerous a boiler can be with all safeties disabled.


Imagine if you have your safeties set incorrectly or they fail and you are not aware of it. I used to work on 100lb donkey boilers and 100lbs of steam is dangerous. They also require maintenance and chemicals to treat the water to prevent calcification of the tubes. The tubes need to be cleaned regularly inside and out to maintain good thermal transfer as well.

You can use RV components but keep in mind that they are not that efficient. For refrigeration you can do what I will be doing later as the house is being built, and that's building my own 24VDC refrigerator and deep freeze.

The key is DC voltage. The 12V RV systems are not that efficient, require thicker wires and have shorter power transmission capabilities. The 24VDC is more efficient but the best way to go is 48VDC. Smaller wires are needed AND you can run longer distances with less loss.

The link below can help with figuring wire sizes and runs. The 24VDC system I have running is a theoretical 0 loss system as I over sized my wires to the charge controllers and to the inverter from the batteries.

http://www.freesunpower.com/wire_calc.php

Also what I am doing right now is using an AC fridge and deep freeze, both of which have had 2" of double radiant barrier insulation applied to their exteriors to help with keeping the heat out. It does work, ugly but it works. My fridge now burns a fraction of the power it used to. The deep freeze cycles once every 30 hours.

On the AC side of the house you want to have the most efficient components possible. Also as I noted in my blog... eliminate things you really don't need. One thing I would strongly recommend is dumping CFL's and incandescent lights for LED.

http://www.designrecycleinc.com/led%20comp%20chart.html

We are using 12VDC LED's and they work great. No warm up BS like with CFL's and they consume much less power across the board.
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