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Old 01-21-2013, 01:37   #21
MotoGlock
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Originally Posted by PM720 View Post
After shooting a few IDPA matches I can see where you are coming from. However, I still enjoy GSSF also. Maybe it was because I had a good day today? I understand about the boring part, especially since you tried to wait for RoundEye and me while we plowed through out 11 combined divisions. I appreciate you hanging around as long as you did. I know the 2 kids we had on M needed some training but I am not sure who you had on the other stages. We had a young lady on 5toG that was pretty personable but the guys on the plates were pretty dry and left for lunch while I was still standing there with 2 divisions left to shoot. Fortunately, the guys on the other side understood the situation and moved me to the front of that line and we were able to finish up. We were able to shoot through all of our divisions in about 4 1/2 hours. Not bad considering they were not using sign in sheets of trees. Squadding was a bit haphazard but with the relatively light attendance it ran OK all things considered. Good day for me anyway.

Scott

After reading the replies, I get it. Yes it is more geared to new shooters or as an introduction.
Scott, I had no issues at all waiting for you guys to finish your 47th division (lol)
But as you said the range officer left you standing there while you are still trying to finish you divisions that you PAID for! Thats not acceptable! One of my points is imagine this is you first time shooting a competition as apparently it's supposed to be! How would it make you feel? The guys at Georgia should have this point refreshed to them maybe? I saw several times the GSSF head guy walk up to the RO's and make sure they are doing ok. Maybe they are free volunteers, I don't know. If so Maybe they should pay the ROs. But I feel he should be as much if not more concerned how all his so called " new" to the whole experience and paying shooters are doing.

You know what, forget my comment about the competition being boring. Sorry.

But I will still say this. If these things are truly geared towards new shooter, then I'm sticking to what I said.
GSSF is run by Glock and I demand better! If it was sanctioned by some other org, I wouldn't cared to have complained.
Anywho, I'm over it already.

Last edited by MotoGlock; 01-21-2013 at 01:57..
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Old 01-21-2013, 11:09   #22
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Originally Posted by MotoGlock View Post
After reading the replies, I get it. Yes it is more geared to new shooters or as an introduction.
Ummm.... no, I'd actually say you still DON'T get it.

Yes, it's not USPSA or IDPA where you're running around and blasting everything. From that point GSSF *is* kinda tame. At the same time, you said you didn't do well. Why is that? Because to do well, it's probably a harder competition than either of those, because to shoot a winning Amateur score you have to be fast whilst still being very accurate. So in my mind, it provides a non-threatening, "easy" atmosphere for a beginner, while still providing an extremely challenging high goal for someone wanting to win.

I'm a B level USPSA shooter, which is equal to IDPA Expert.... and I still haven't won a GSSF match. They're hard. Very hard to win. So you have to show up, knowing what it takes, and then perform under the pressure of your expectations.

Or, you can just whine about the experience.
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Old 01-21-2013, 13:25   #23
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Ok, I don't get it. Fine whatever.
You guys are all better. I suck.
Yeah , OK. I don't know anything about anything in life.
I shouldn't have said anything negative at all! Sorry for not bowing down to GSSF.
I mean yeah it's so incredible that all the top pro shooters get in line to participate in it, I'm sure!

I should have just handed over my cash and thanked them for the opportunityto be there.

Please forgive me here people!

Last edited by MotoGlock; 01-21-2013 at 13:31..
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Old 01-21-2013, 13:36   #24
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Ok, I'll just whine.



carry on


Yeah, if I had run into that situation at the begining of the day I might have had a different outlook. Fortunately, it was at the last 2 divisions for the DAY so I was able to cope and the guys on the other side moved me right to the front so it all worked out in the end. I know I was getting pretty upset when we got to the barriers and they were not going to let us in for a while. Then they said that because we were shooting multiple divisions we could go right in to the "express" bay. Hey! they have the express bay we all talked about a while back, cool! Except when we were getting close to it a guy on a quad pulls up and tells us it's closed due to lack of personel! LOL! He told us to just run through like normal. I was OK with that!!

Anyway, as far as I am concerned you are welcome to shoot with us anytime and if you want to try some of the other divisions you can use my G30 or G34. Just let me know.

Scott
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Old 01-21-2013, 13:42   #25
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Ok, I don't get it. Fine whatever.
You guys are all better. I suck.
Yeah , OK. I don't know anything about anything in life.
I shouldn't have said anything negative at all! Sorry for not bowing down to GSSF.
I mean yeah it's so incredible that all the top pro shooters get in line to participate in it, I'm sure!

I should have just handed over my cash and thanked them for the opportunityto be there.

Please forgive me here people!
I'm sorry you didn't have a good time, but you are in the GSSF forum, so you had to expect the flaming.
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Old 01-21-2013, 13:44   #26
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Yes, it's not USPSA or IDPA where you're running around and blasting everything. From that point GSSF *is* kinda tame. At the same time, you said you didn't do well. Why is that?

Uhm, last time I checked, IDPA does emphasize accuracy. Be it it's not as much a points deduction as GSSF. USPSA yeah you have to be very fast. I don't have issues with that.

AS far as me not doing well. I didn't check my scores. I was being sarcastic when I typed that. Whatever my score, I am sure if I had tried harder and was more enthusiastic whatever it was I could do better. I did pretty good on the six plates though (I think) . It's not weather someone wins or not, it should be a pleasant and fun experience.


Again my issue with the format is my OPINION as I stated.

My issues with how it's run and the atmosphere for first timers there is valid. Maybe someone from GSSF can read theis and improve how they run the thing.

Last edited by MotoGlock; 01-21-2013 at 13:47..
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Old 01-21-2013, 18:14   #27
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Uhm, last time I checked, IDPA does emphasize accuracy. Be it it's not as much a points deduction as GSSF.
I think that is basically what was implied. With the other clubs IPSC\USPSA, IDPA, 3 Gun, ... it is possible to shoot fast enough to make up for a miss, but in GSSF (with a 10 second penalty), that is impossible. So you're required to shoot accurate first and fast second.
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Old 01-21-2013, 18:37   #28
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MotoGlock,
Sorry your experience was not as you expected. There is a somewhat loose position from GSSF as far as the local administration of the matches. Not judging, just a statement of fact. Other matches ARE run more closely to the GSSF guidelines and you ail find some very knowledgable and helpful ROs who treat the shooters as customers. I for one invest my time and efforts toward improving the match experience for all participants. For now I only shoot and RO GSSF, USPSA and Steel Challenge.
The main thing is I hope you find competition to your liking and that you actively continue to support the shooting sports.
Stay Safe
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Old 01-21-2013, 19:01   #29
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I've only shot in three matches since joining GSSF last year but they have all been learning experiences. Not all the ROs are Mr of Ms personality but it isn't a contest. They don't have an easy job, especially after the first four hours on a hot day and the fact that they are there, at all, is a tribute to their interest in helping. Yes, the bays get jammed up at times, things happen, and the best way around that is to simply slow down. Be the one start a conversation with the guy or gal next alongside. I've yet to meet anyone who was rude but some people just want to be quiet. Let em. Relax, go with the flow, fast or slow, chat with others (who want to chat) and try to shoot better this time than you did the last. If you need everyone to be your pal, to move fast and are easily bored at the matches then GSSF may not be for you. No harm, no foul. Hope you find a group that suits you better or come to enjoy us.
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Old 01-21-2013, 20:06   #30
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...Not all the ROs are Mr of Ms personality but it isn't a contest. They don't have an easy job, especially after the first four hours on a hot day and the fact that they are there, at all, is a tribute to their interest in helping. Yes, the bays get jammed up at times, things happen, and the best way around that is to simply slow down...
I think the best way is to train the ROs in the correct way to do things (The Rules), and see that they are followed - and get them some help if they are not. Those who know the rules and proper squadding can go to the GSSF Rangemaster as well as anyone else - you don't have to be an RO.

Those who have the time and interest in promoting this sport, volunteer to RO yourself. I had a boss who once said, "If you come to me with a problem, come to me with a solution!"
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Old 01-21-2013, 22:51   #31
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Yeah, if I had run into that situation at the begining of the day I might have had a different outlook. Fortunately, it was at the last 2 divisions for the DAY so I was able to cope and the guys on the other side moved me right to the front so it all worked out in the end. I know I was getting pretty upset when we got to the barriers and they were not going to let us in for a while. Then they said that because we were shooting multiple divisions we could go right in to the "express" bay. Hey! they have the express bay we all talked about a while back, cool! Except when we were getting close to it a guy on a quad pulls up and tells us it's closed due to lack of personel! LOL! He told us to just run through like normal. I was OK with that!!

Anyway, as far as I am concerned you are welcome to shoot with us anytime and if you want to try some of the other divisions you can use my G30 or G34. Just let me know.

Scott

Thanks Scott! You guys rock!
I would love to try your G34 with the dawson sights!
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Old 01-21-2013, 23:05   #32
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I'm sorry you didn't have a good time, but you are in the GSSF forum, so you had to expect the flaming.
It's all good RE.
As far as the flamers, ehh screw them!

I take back what I said about the format. But as far as the way tehy run these events, my assesments are accurate.
I think you agree but may be too much of a nice guy to post it online.
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Old 01-21-2013, 23:21   #33
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Thanks Scott! You guys rock!
I would love to try your G34 with the dawson sights!
I will bring it Saturday if we don't get rained out. BTW, have you shot any of the C3 gatherings at Burbank Firing Line? This Friday at 7pm.

Scott
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Old 01-22-2013, 00:06   #34
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Uhm, last time I checked, IDPA does emphasize accuracy. Be it it's not as much a points deduction as GSSF. USPSA yeah you have to be very fast. I don't have issues with that.
In IDPA, a hit in the -1 zone is only .5 seconds added to your time. And it's a VERY generous -1 zone. GSSF has a very small rignt that's -1 and the rest of the target is -3. And at 25 yards, you'll have six shots on the target. If all 6 of those are in the -3 area (easy to do if trying to go too fast). Guess what, you added EIGHTEEN points to your time. That's alot. You almost never see targets at 25 yards at an IDPA match, it's fairly common at GSSF matches. *BIG* difference.

In USPSA, you can have ALL your hits be non-A hits, but if your time is blazing fast you can still do good. Not so with GSSF.

GSSF requires the ultimate in speed with accuracy over any competition I've seen. So to say "it's just for newbies to get an introduction to competitive shooting" is wrong on so many levels, and is an insult to the organization.

Yes, some matches might not be run as well as others but that's the nature of dealing with volunteers having to run hundreds of entries through. Sometimes it's not as smooth as we'd like. But Glock is the ONLY gun manufacturer that does something like this, and that says a lot in my book. And they do it NOT as a profit making venture (at least not the matches themselves, sure they hope to sell some guns people might use in one), and that's something to admire and respect.
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Old 01-22-2013, 00:16   #35
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MotoGlock,
Sorry your experience was not as you expected. There is a somewhat loose position from GSSF as far as the local administration of the matches. Not judging, just a statement of fact. Other matches ARE run more closely to the GSSF guidelines and you ail find some very knowledgable and helpful ROs who treat the shooters as customers. I for one invest my time and efforts toward improving the match experience for all participants. For now I only shoot and RO GSSF, USPSA and Steel Challenge.
The main thing is I hope you find competition to your liking and that you actively continue to support the shooting sports.
Stay Safe
Thanks emtjr928.
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Old 01-22-2013, 00:19   #36
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BTW, have you shot any of the C3 gatherings at Burbank Firing Line? This Friday at 7pm.

Scott
I've been there once about a year at the calguns meet up. That was one of the first times I ever shot anything. That's how I met Chad.

Last edited by MotoGlock; 01-22-2013 at 00:24..
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:44   #37
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In IDPA, a hit in the -1 zone is only .5 seconds added to your time. And it's a VERY generous -1 zone. GSSF has a very small rignt that's -1 and the rest of the target is -3. And at 25 yards, you'll have six shots on the target. If all 6 of those are in the -3 area (easy to do if trying to go too fast). Guess what, you added EIGHTEEN points to your time...
I was 6 points down in our 8 stage IDPA match this past Saturday. I'd be very happy to do that in 8 GSSF stages. Too bad my raw time killed me...
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:42   #38
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MotoGlock- I was addressing certain parts of your original post

Holy heck what an unpleasant experience! The six steel plates are good. The rest, boring. I was so disillusioned by it by my third string I was just blasting through to get it over with. I wondered why you thought it was boring and probably made the mistake of applying my competitiveness to you wthout knowing you. Unless I am winning, there must be something I can do to improve. For me, trying harder so I can win makes it the opposite of boring.

There was no sense of camaraderie at all between the participants, range officers , nor the. Glock factory workers. Were you rebuffed in your attempts to be friendly or was there no camaraderie because EVERYONE sat around and kept to themselves.

The RO's at this particular event were a joke. Most of the time I did not hear the RO say range is clear before people were going out to tape. That would keep me from pasting.

Several of stages where the joke of an RO refused to take the entry forms in an orderly stack so us participants were practically arguing to see who was up next. Really? Squadding is the bugaboo at a lot of matches and even seasoned GSSF shooters make complaints about it. I have seen it worked great and seen it worked like *** with me waiting over 3 hours to shoot a single stage. It can be frustrating.

I have never in my life not enjoyed a shooting event like that of GSSF. I haven't shot any major matches in other sports (an exception being PPC) but I know their squadding system runs differently.

Maybe a smaller match venue for your next GSSF match?
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:08   #39
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...Maybe a smaller match venue for your next GSSF match?
Vegas wasn't exactly large. Maybe.... PM720 and 1RoundEye and Moto can RO next year and help square them away.

The solution to these problems is within everyone's grasp. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem!
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:10   #40
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GSSF is specifically for new shooters.

Remember back when you were a new shooter?

You could shoot, maybe even shoot accurately.

But could you shoot both accurately and fast?

I could not.

For a new shooter, learning accuracy must come first.

A new shooter who tries to go too fast is just going to spray the landscape.

That is why the GSSF point system is what it is.

To encourage accuracy first, but it is still the lowest aggregate time that wins!

As the shooter gains experience, he or she can then move on to more high speed, low drag comptitions like IDPA or USPSA where speed counts more than accuracy.

I have always thought that USPSA, escpecially, stresses speed too much over accuracy.

Mostly by making the A & C zones "too big".

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